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  1. #41
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    if there really was a fix, than obviously it wasn't the intention for epic level players to kill Momma in 10 seconds and turn it into a joke raid for easy looting. say what you will, but im happy for the change and the raid can, once again, be run the way it was meant to be run, not trivialized.
    This.

    People saying it will get run less are incorrect. The same number of people who want items from it, will run the raid the same amount of times regardless if they have to run it legit or in hero mode. The rest wont even run it at all regardless if they have to run it legit or in hero mode.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #42
    Uber Completionist Ilindith's Avatar
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    So, use Tsunami now I guess?

    Awaiting hate posts in 5...4...3...2...1...
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  3. #43
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    I am not saying they shouldn't have changed it because of that...just that it was a waste of time because it only killed off one of two remaining reasons to run the raid.
    How do we know how long it took? I think any quest/raid that is not working as intended deserves to be fixed. It doesnt matter how popular it is.

    How did the devs kill off one of two remaining reasons to run Hound by fixing it the way it should be? Because a barb or ranged might not be able to trivialize it anymore, or for now, by beating the raid within 10 seconds? Makes no sense to me.

  4. #44
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoRinNoSho View Post
    As far as I am concerned, I was sad to see this fix go in. I was using the opportunity while it was available to build confidence and teach people about the quest mechanics safely as they were apprehensive to run it due to the perception of "you just doomed us all with that one miss swing!!!11!one" common with this raid.

    Looks like that isn't an option anymore. Thanks.
    If you want to teach people mechanics of a raid, than you should teach them properly. The mechanic in Hound was not to be an epic level character with specific EDs and kill the boss in 10 seconds. That teaches nobody nothing.

  5. #45
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    How do we know how long it took? I think any quest/raid that is not working as intended deserves to be fixed. It doesnt matter how popular it is.

    How did the devs kill off one of two remaining reasons to run Hound by fixing it the way it should be? Because a barb or ranged might not be able to trivialize it anymore, or for now, by beating the raid within 10 seconds? Makes no sense to me.
    Running the raid for fun of seeing Xyzzy die a horrible is no longer an option.

    All that's left is running it for fun because you enjoy the way the raid is run, which from my experience is a minute portion of the population.

    Running it for loot is pointless - easier to get loot is better, both at level and at cap.

    As a side-note, if they had to spend 30 seconds to fix the raid, that was 30 seconds more than it should take. More likely, 30 minutes to an hour or so would be spent on it, assuming everything went smooth - the code has to be updated, compiled, internally tested, pass QA testing, and be implemented into the final product. It's not as simple as some people seem to think, with just adding a digit or something - any change in the spaghetti code that DDO has apparently become would have to be tested to make sure it didn't cause an issue.

    Edit: As a side-note, it's not even relevant to me - I ran the raid twice for fun after getting FotW on my AA (once for favor, once to help out someone)...I'm just attempting to explain to people why changes like this don't magically help the game like they think.
    Last edited by WruntJunior; 03-02-2013 at 01:32 PM.
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  6. #46

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    The mechanic in Hound was not to be an epic level character with specific EDs and kill the boss in 10 seconds.
    This is still true. HoX is just as doable now as before.
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  7. #47
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    than why don't i ever see heroic players running Hound? why is it always with level 20+ players?
    Because of MotU, of course. Nobody's at those levels long anymore, so it's rare to get a run. Same with all the Heroic raids. How many at-level Chronos or DQs do you see? One in a blue moon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    i don't dispute that higher level characters should be able to over power lower level content...
    You don't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    ...but not to the point that they can...
    Oh, so you are disputing it.

  8. #48
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    Thumbs down

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    Last edited by GoRinNoSho; 03-02-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  9. #49
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    Well it certainly wasn't meant to be overpowered like it was and it got fixed. I'm happy over that, Hound is a unique raid and very well done IMO.

    The two reasons, why I at least, don't run it very often:

    1) Explorer run to quest. Yes I know not a deal breaker for all, but I dislike it.

    2) Outdated Loot. Aside from some twink gear (even then, meh) the loot is just terrible. Without going overboard a buff to the loot and adding augments might bring some life back to the raid.

    As far as having to do it the way it was intended and the chance of pugs messing it up beyond repair. I can really only think of a few occasions where folks, even tho insctructed, picked up what they thought were collectable or went on killing sprees. Most of the time, it's been a non-issue.

    If devs really wanted the Sub T raids to have some new life they would upgrade the loot some, and perhaps have the side chests drops shroud ingredients, boots mats, etc.
    Git off mah lawn!

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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoRinNoSho View Post
    I am glad that you are of the opinion only learning can come through bleeding.

    I have thought about it and there is nothing nice I can say at this point.
    What are you talking about?

    Step 1) Join a run with a good raid leader.
    Step 2) Listen to and follow instructions.
    Step 3) ???
    Step 4) Profit.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  11. #51
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    the run to Hound is long and annoying? i guess you feel the same about LOB and MA. i feel that run is long and annoying. Hound is a good raid that requires teamwork, self sufficiency and communication, unless you are in a over level group and mistakes are minor. at level, mistakes can mean wipe.
    Grats...you are the only person who feels that way.
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  12. #52
    The Hatchery Habreno's Avatar
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    For those curious, the current DR is 9999/Epic.

    When the Dev's give us weapons that break Epic DR, go back and have fun.
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  13. #53
    Community Member Yokido's Avatar
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    It would be interesting, at the very least, to be able to fuse certain items in certain lower-tier raids together to make a somewhat more usable item for higher levels..

    Levik's Defender+Lorrik's Champion=??? item at CR 21-25?

    Add in a failure rate and some form of high-end currency, epic tokens, etc, and you could revamp old items and keep the luster for older raids while you're at it too... Just don't link it to other content, that's just irritating business tac to no ends.

    In this regard you're giving an upper hand to older players who've been around long enough to farm these items out and have them, they basically show-case the items for lowbies and other players, and the raids get run, fairly simple business tac.

  14. #54

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    For those curious, the current DR is 9999/Epic.
    Doesn't matter.

    HoX still doable in 10-15 seconds.
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  15. #55
    The Hatchery
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    I often see threads on these forums of people whining that DDO is too easy after they have years of experience, tons of gear and a good build.

    And now I see this thread where people are whining that they can no longer complete a raid in 10 seconds by exploiting an oversight, and now must do it the right way at take five (5!) whole minutes to complete the raid.

    You're also complaining that changing her DR from 999 to 9,999 (adding one entire integer to the code) and making her immune to light (or however they fixed Celestia, but light immunity is likely a single Boolean value (if DDO is coded competently)) is a waste of dev time. These are things that could have been accomplished in ten minutes. They're only modifying the resistances of a single mob, you know.

    NOW, HONESTLY. If the loot is not useful, and you don't actually like running the raid the way it was supposed to be ran, then why the hell were you running it in the first place? I mean, it takes more than a few minutes to actually get to the raid, and there are much higher leveled chests readily available elsewhere.

    Yes, as the level cap increases and harder, more rewarding content comes out, older raids will die if nothing is done. This is not because they can't be completed in ten seconds, but because no one wants to run them at all because they have no reason to.

    Just stop whining.

  16. #56
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    What I see are people who often complain about the game becoming "too easy" complaining about a fix to an exploit that made a raid too easy.

    Ahem...I shall always complain that the game is too easy when I see other people easily accomplish something that I had to work hard for. Yet I shall abuse and exploit any trick that only benefits me and my close circle of friends directly, and Turbine can take that hypocrisy from my cold dead hands!
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    i'll be putting a bug into our system.

  17. #57
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    LOB and MA are run less now because the droprates needed to upgrade the gear are wonky and the run to the raids are much longer and involve a lot more fighting than the run to Hound. they would be run a lot more if there was a teleporter to the raids and a fix to the drop rates.
    Yes a good idea!!!

    the hound run still is kinda annoying, and its worse when people get lost, then you spend more time finding and sometimes carrying those people to the raid, then you tell them 1 billion times what to do and what not to do, then as soon as you go in those people who already cost you so much time immediately start killing dogs or what ever. Ive seen plenty of people rage quit for the day over hound runs lol.

  18. #58
    Founder Chaos000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    People saying it will get run less are incorrect. The same number of people who want items from it, will run the raid the same amount of times regardless if they have to run it legit or in hero mode. The rest wont even run it at all regardless if they have to run it legit or in hero mode.
    Not necessarily. Quests and raids are run based on the metric of cost vs. benefit. Cost comes in terms of time spent, possible wipe or failure in a less than ideal group, and amount of resources regardless of success or failure.

    If quests or lower level raids are done with a group that gains 0 xp due to being way over level should not be criticized for wanting a cheezeball easy method of farming non relevant at endgame loot.

    Case and point. Gianthold reaver raid. When they added a gazillion air elementals less lfms. Shroud heatseaker blades one or two shotting players along with mandatory server lag. General all players welcome lfms disappeared. Abbot with lag + fast moving multiple meteors...

    Players that want a challenge HAD the option of running it at level. Players that do not want a challenge should have had an easybutton option too.
    Daishado

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  19. #59
    Founder Chaos000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    the hound run still is kinda annoying, and its worse when people get lost, then you spend more time finding and sometimes carrying those people to the raid,
    TOD does this pretty well, I think another solution would be to allow ring of friends to work at the entrance to raids in explorer zones.

    ooo ooo! paid raid entrance teleporter.
    Daishado

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  20. #60
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Is their even anything in that hox chest worth anything that hasn't been upgraded x10 in random loot? Even those hand wraps kind of pale with random gen nightmare wraps now.

    You wanna make a real change that will maybe make it run more for at lv xp? How about not having to jog to it. Ya i'm that lazy. And judging by how much the 3rd series in the citw chain is grinded, i'm guessing others are as well.

    Lesson in this? Even though im sitting here, it's exhausting watching anything that isn't a monk/barb ranger run to something.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

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