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  1. #21
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    this was brought about many times before. the dr Momma had was an unbeatable dr at the time. epic level players were able to overwhelm her dr with damage. with this fix, its obvious the intention was not meant to be able to walk into a raid and complete it in 10 seconds. the fix, i believe, was needed.
    The fix was the final nail in the coffin of a dying raid.
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  2. #22

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    Giving X'yzzy epic DR will not take away the ability to kill her in seconds without bothering with the little dogs.
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  3. #23
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Hound, LoB, and MA all see a lot less runs now because they're annoying to run and the loot is completely unimpressive.

    Hound isn't hard, and it never was as long as I've played, as long as you don't bring people who can't follow instructions - it's one of the raids that's easier with fewer people, in fact, rather than pugging it.
    LOB and MA are run less now because the droprates needed to upgrade the gear are wonky and the run to the raids are much longer and involve a lot more fighting than the run to Hound. they would be run a lot more if there was a teleporter to the raids and a fix to the drop rates.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    this was brought about many times before. the dr Momma had was an unbeatable dr at the time. epic level players were able to overwhelm her dr with damage. with this fix, its obvious the intention was not meant to be able to walk into a raid and complete it in 10 seconds. the fix, i believe, was needed.
    This was brought up many times before: it's an Heroic raid, and Heroic characters can't do what you're claiming is a problem.

    There's nothing to fix about the fact that high-level characters have powers that trivialize lower-level content.

  5. #25
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    LOB and MA are run less now because the droprates needed to upgrade the gear are wonky and the run to the raids are much longer and involve a lot more fighting than the run to Hound. they would be run a lot more if there was a teleporter to the raids and a fix to the drop rates.
    Actually, I see a lot of people having trouble motivating runs because the loot sucks, too. The only thing I'd really consider good from that raid now is something like an earth2 weapon for leveling...outside of that, most everything is pretty heavily outdated (spell power 90 on caster sticks, weapons whose best benefit is done better by drow weapons that are easier to farm, etc).

    The run out to these raids is just an additional check not in their favor - it's hardly the only reason they don't see many runs.

    In all honesty, unless the loot is significantly improved, the dying raids will see less and less runs, until you get only a few people running it for old time's sake or because they enjoy the raid (which for these are VERY few and far between).
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  6. #26
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    This was brought up many times before: it's an Heroic raid, and Heroic characters can't do what you're claiming is a problem.

    There's nothing to fix about the fact that high-level characters have powers that trivialize lower-level content.
    than why don't i ever see heroic players running Hound? why is it always with level 20+ players? its like every other raid in the game. people want their loot as easy as possible. i saw many lfms for Hound, but rarely saw at level. i even saw a few lfms that said they were doing it the "easy" way.

    i don't dispute that higher level characters should be able to over power lower level content, but not to the point that they can literally complete a raid in 10 seconds. name any other raid in the game that any level character can over power the boss or complete the raid in the same amount of time?

  7. #27
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    than why don't i ever see heroic players running Hound? why is it always with level 20+ players? its like every other raid in the game. people want their loot as easy as possible. i saw many lfms for Hound, but rarely saw at level. i even saw a few lfms that said they were doing it the "easy" way.

    i don't dispute that higher level characters should be able to over power lower level content, but not to the point that they can literally complete a raid in 10 seconds. name any other raid in the game that any level character can over power the boss or complete the raid in the same amount of time?
    Invalid comparison - there's no other raid where you can fight the raid boss during the first 10 seconds of the raid.
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  8. #28
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Invalid comparison - there's no other raid where you can fight the raid boss during the first 10 seconds of the raid.
    not at all. regardless if you just step into a raid or been in the raid for an hour, only Hound can be, or could have been, beaten down in short time.

  9. #29
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    With being able to overpower her dr you could run the raid knowing it would be short and one person not listening wouldn't wipe the raid.

    Now you're back to one pugger wiping the raid, and with no loot that's worth farming 20 completions to get, I don't see any reason to ever step into the raid.

    With her dr set low it could be considered a fun run type situation, sort of like going and killing sorjek in tempest spine on a 25. Now it goes into the list with hold for reinforcements as something to run if you've already punched yourself in the balls and are still feeling masochistic.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SockMonkey View Post
    this. waist of time.
    Is that a new belt drop?
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  11. #31
    Community Member Derailment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    With being able to overpower her dr you could run the raid knowing it would be short and one person not listening wouldn't wipe the raid.
    You trying to picture situation as if there's always that person who don't listen and will wipe.
    That's not true. First of all, those persons are rare. Second, any raid can be wiped by one person doing something bad.

  12. #32
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derailment View Post
    You trying to picture situation as if there's always that person who don't listen and will wipe.
    That's not true. First of all, those persons are rare. Second, any raid can be wiped by one person doing something bad.
    Actually, most can't - in most situations, anything where someone does something bad can be prepared (though it may be painful). In HoX, if one person screws up, it's possible to not be able to fix it at all. The only other raid close to this would be Reaver, I believe...as you can fail if someone just DPSes the Reaver as hard as they can.

    Furthermore, in my experience, probably 75-80% of HoXs I've run (most were pugs), at least one person didn't listen until AFTER they were fussed at for killing a puppy.
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  13. #33
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Actually, most can't - in most situations, anything where someone does something bad can be prepared (though it may be painful). In HoX, if one person screws up, it's possible to not be able to fix it at all. The only other raid close to this would be Reaver, I believe...as you can fail if someone just DPSes the Reaver as hard as they can.

    Furthermore, in my experience, probably 75-80% of HoXs I've run (most were pugs), at least one person didn't listen until AFTER they were fussed at for killing a puppy.
    nothing wrong with a raid that can easily wipe if communication is lacking or because a big mistake was made. ive seen smooth TODs wipe because healers weren't getting grasped or didn't have their ioun stone equipped, resulting in the tank dying.

    any raid has a chance to wipe for any number of reasons. HOX is just a little less forgiving. mistakes still can be made, but it just depends on how quickly the group reacts to the mistake and how big the mistake really was. Hound is more of a test against time than a test against player power, which makes it a unique raid. most other raids are more about over powering the boss.

  14. #34
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    You might call that repaired, but I call spending ANY effort to make Heroic raids harder for Epic characters a waste of time. I'd rather that dev go fix bugs.
    .... yes
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  15. #35
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    And now hox is finally dead. RIP
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  16. #36
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    The devs fixed a fun loot run into something no one will play. More dead raids, pls.

  17. #37
    Community Member Derailment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Actually, most can't - in most situations, anything where someone does something bad can be prepared (though it may be painful). In HoX, if one person screws up, it's possible to not be able to fix it at all. The only other raid close to this would be Reaver, I believe...as you can fail if someone just DPSes the Reaver as hard as they can.
    I don't want to go through the list of raids atm, but what coming in mind - talking to dwarf at the end of VoN5, blocking progress there with Voice/Ring/Key, entering last room in VoN6, Reaver as you mentioned it, Shroud part 2 and portal to part 5 before shrining, starting VoD fight, starting AdQ2 fight, starting ToD, even runes in Tempest Spine to some extent. Sometimes aggroing stuff and bringing on party or healers, intimidating/damaging ToD shadows in particular. Special award for Abbot.

    Only Chronoscope seems to be designed foolproof, no cut-off barriers, key given to everyone by banker, bossfight in bank reset, etc etc. Very childish raid if you look in that perspective
    Last edited by Derailment; 03-02-2013 at 01:28 PM.

  18. #38
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menace13 View Post
    The devs fixed a fun loot run into something no one will play. More dead raids, pls.
    sorry your easy button was fixed

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Actually, I see a lot of people having trouble motivating runs because the loot sucks, too. The only thing I'd really consider good from that raid now is something like an earth2 weapon for leveling...outside of that, most everything is pretty heavily outdated (spell power 90 on caster sticks, weapons whose best benefit is done better by drow weapons that are easier to farm, etc).

    The run out to these raids is just an additional check not in their favor - it's hardly the only reason they don't see many runs.

    In all honesty, unless the loot is significantly improved, the dying raids will see less and less runs, until you get only a few people running it for old time's sake or because they enjoy the raid (which for these are VERY few and far between).
    Man I agree with all this, I just don't think the idea that when it's stupidly easy people will run it to see the hound die is any sort of reason to leave it the way it was.

    People don't run it because the loot is almost completely outmoded by other stuff even at level, so buff the loot, make some of it lower ML and tweak some of it to situational or niche use, and give it some upgrades that make people run the raid for upgrade seals.

    I think they should make upgrade seals universal like this just did with upgrade commendations. I need three abbot seals, but am sick of Abbot... would love to run hound or... well I hate the other one down there...
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  20. #40
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    As far as I am concerned, I was sad to see this fix go in. I was using the opportunity while it was available to build confidence and teach people about the quest mechanics safely as they were apprehensive to run it due to the perception of "you just doomed us all with that one miss swing!!!11!one" common with this raid.

    Looks like that isn't an option anymore. Thanks.

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