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  1. #41
    Community Member Seager52's Avatar
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    Default Exploits are Tactics

    Its a game so I dont like exploits really, but to each their own. The point I am going to make is that the British thought we were 'exploiting' when we hid behind trees and shot the stupid re-res standing in the middle of a feild in a line.

    Ranged is 'safe' but aside from casters its not faster. You have trade off on what you want to burn, time or reasorces. Shade you and I, and many of the others posting, have been around since launch or before, dont remember if you beta tested, so resorces are not a big deal to us.

    The problem the devs face is making content that for you and I (quick gab the 'I' comes after the pronoun) have effectivly prepared ourselves for seven years, and the newer, more abundant generation that has been here for a couple or less.

    The point is about fun. I am a jerk, opinionated, blunt person myself. I dont like being told what to do on my healer because I have played one since beta, thats why I dont play with you normally. You can do your thing but our personnalities clash unless one of us shuts up, which when I choose to join you thats what I do. But it is because I want to have fun and I dont want to ruin yours. Same for everyone else, let them play like they play.

    If they want to use some exploits, it might be annoying, but whatever. When the devs fix it they can then conplain about respecing their toons (if it was needed for *insert variable* exploit).

    What I think is funny about this thread is that there is a lot of back and forth on who is being rude and generally (to include this time) both parties are wrong somehow.

    Dont let this game ruin your mood, its just a game, complicated and indepth as it is remember that when ppl get everything easy they will loose intrest faster.

    And the gang up on shade. Dont discount what people do as an achievment. Not to point fingers but if you put people down it's usually in humans a way to say you need to be viewed as more important or higher because you are either less than spectacular or have low self-esteem. Not always, so it might not apply, just remember there are professionals to help you get through those problems.

    Game on ladies and gentlmen, game on...see ya there

    Oh and congratz on the completion, hope you tipped your healers
    Seager, Seagar, Jayrixx, Dezaray, Guiled, Glorysong

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  2. #42
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Try the post 17.1 version yet? It's VERY clear the developers changed it direct in response to how it was being beaten on EE by some groups. It is no longer soloable using cheese tactics, and kiting is vastly more difficult on EE now in the end part due to the new lightning bomb set up.
    Yes. I tried it.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...72#post4953572

    And well... is there anything, anyone, anywhere can say that will change your rigid perception of DDO? I don't know because I can't read minds, not yours, not the developers'.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  3. #43
    Community Member Shadowaras's Avatar
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    Default

    First of all gratz on your completion ...
    But wat i wanted to say is that i agree with shaatan adding smart play,skills and strategy to a raid when shotmaning or soloing it isnt cheesy as shade sais ...and furthermore there is no reason for you shade to snap and agro on every1 that doesnt do it your way imho ..
    so again gratz for your completion and try to respect other peoples posts and achievments a bit b4 posting
    Officer of Eternal Infinity-Thelanis
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  4. #44
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    Yes. I tried it.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...72#post4953572

    And well... is there anything, anyone, anywhere can say that will change your rigid perception of DDO? I don't know because I can't read minds, not yours, not the developers'.
    Hopefully the enhancement pass and cap increase will come out soon so all these terrible Pen and Paper ranged builds get the nerf bat. It is one thing if a bunch of level 20 ranged rangers or level 20 ranged fighters were kicking butt, but you get these bizarro ddo creations which the devs made and should never have existed. 6 monk levels is a terrible ranged build in pen and paper, but some dev felt sorry for monks. Probably thought he was doing shuriken throwers a favor.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  5. #45
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Hopefully the enhancement pass and cap increase will come out soon so all these terrible Pen and Paper ranged builds get the nerf bat. It is one thing if a bunch of level 20 ranged rangers or level 20 ranged fighters were kicking butt, but you get these bizarro ddo creations which the devs made and should never have existed. 6 monk levels is a terrible ranged build in pen and paper, but some dev felt sorry for monks. Probably thought he was doing shuriken throwers a favor.
    I have felt this way a long too (those "weird" monkcher builds).

    I know I am just being an old fashioned PnP DnD player though.

    Though Matt, I also think you are thinking about the Juggernaut Build too.

    The big problem is that ED's are too powerful.

    PREs are weird (in PnP DnD...you Prestige Class levels took over for your actual class levels).
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  6. #46
    Community Member Dieterstrife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    Yes. I tried it.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...72#post4953572

    And well... is there anything, anyone, anywhere can say that will change your rigid perception of DDO? I don't know because I can't read minds, not yours, not the developers'.
    No, no there isn't. If there is an easier way to beat something than throwing a barb in front of it to beat the ever living hell out of it, it's cheesy and not what the devs intended. At least that's what I've gained from Shade here. But I might be jaded, I'm convinced the biggest gimps in DDO are barbarians
    De'Corenai of Argonessen. If you've seen me, you know what I'm talking about.

  7. #47
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    Default Pen and paper

    Norg, with all due respect bro even mentioning PnP in comparison to the game as we know it is silly. We are talking Turbine "dungeon game" not D&D.

    Like all build strategies since the beginning of this game, there will be nerfs. Fury ranged toons are not the only thing on the plate here ripe for nerfing. The ED system combined with new gear created yet another level of complexity that will be difficult to unwind.

    Be interesting as usual to see how it plays out.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Hopefully the enhancement pass and cap increase will come out soon so all these terrible Pen and Paper ranged builds get the nerf bat. It is one thing if a bunch of level 20 ranged rangers or level 20 ranged fighters were kicking butt, but you get these bizarro ddo creations which the devs made and should never have existed. 6 monk levels is a terrible ranged build in pen and paper, but some dev felt sorry for monks. Probably thought he was doing shuriken throwers a favor.
    RTFM on Khyber

  8. #48
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Hopefully the enhancement pass and cap increase will come out soon so all these terrible Pen and Paper ranged builds get the nerf bat. It is one thing if a bunch of level 20 ranged rangers or level 20 ranged fighters were kicking butt, but you get these bizarro ddo creations which the devs made and should never have existed. 6 monk levels is a terrible ranged build in pen and paper, but some dev felt sorry for monks. Probably thought he was doing shuriken throwers a favor.
    You do know that 20 ranger isn't the best bow-toting build even in PnP right? Scout/ranger swift hunter trumps them all the way due to extra skirmish damage, maybe splashing cloistered cleric too. If there's one game where the most optimized way of doing stuff involves heavy prcing, splashing and multiclassing, that game isn't ddo: it's straight 3.5 D&D.
    Last edited by DarkForte; 03-24-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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  9. #49
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    Yes. I tried it.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...72#post4953572

    And well... is there anything, anyone, anywhere can say that will change your rigid perception of DDO? I don't know because I can't read minds, not yours, not the developers'.
    Hopefully the enhancement pass and cap increase will come out soon so all these terrible Pen and Paper ranged builds get the nerf bat. It is one thing if a bunch of level 20 ranged rangers or level 20 ranged fighters were kicking butt, but you get these bizarro ddo creations which the devs made and should never have existed. 6 monk levels is a terrible ranged build in pen and paper, but some dev felt sorry for monks. Probably thought he was doing shuriken throwers a favor.
    Wow. And here I thought creative, even complex, build options was one of DDOs greatest distinguishing features in a game universe populated by WoW-clones.

    And BTW. EE FoT can easily be completed with barbarians. You just need a strategy appropriate to the raid. Imagine trying to only melee DPS the shadow-fight in ToD pt2 without a shadow kiter/tank. It would be insane, at least terribly inefficient. But would you follow someone who kept insisting that's the way that fight was "intended" by the devs to be fought? Would you want the whole game changed to make ONE, old, tired way of barbtarding the ONLY way to play EVERY raid?

    I've mentioned this before. The BEST way to deal with the Stormreaver is NOT with ranged. It is good old-fashioned face-tanking. But you can't face-tank everything. And IMO that's a very good thing. As for the Fall of Truth dracolich? Get creative.
    Last edited by Keybreaker; 03-24-2013 at 10:52 AM.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Hopefully the enhancement pass and cap increase will come out soon so all these terrible Pen and Paper ranged builds get the nerf bat. It is one thing if a bunch of level 20 ranged rangers or level 20 ranged fighters were kicking butt, but you get these bizarro ddo creations which the devs made and should never have existed. 6 monk levels is a terrible ranged build in pen and paper, but some dev felt sorry for monks. Probably thought he was doing shuriken throwers a favor.
    Just make Ten Thousand Stars an ability granted with taking the Zen Archery feat and decouple it from Ki.
    Then you can make lvl 20 rangers or fighters with that ability as well as FvS's, bards, or anything else you could think of...

  11. #51
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    I don't believe there is anything wrong with a monk ranged toon per se (afterall Zen Archery is a feat taken straight from PnP 3.5 and made specifically for monk bow users).

    I would agree though that you shouldn't *have* to have 6 lvls of monk for 10k stars. Either 10k stars should be available to all classes without multiclassing or some variation of it. I wouldn't remove the monk ability to become archers though. And I'd balance it for other classes the way it's balanced for monkchers currently.

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