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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    Some people spend years building and outfitting their toons. They play that toon many hours every week and love how they "play". Then a Nerf comes along and all that time is wasted. That's when we lose people.....
    Yep. And so many times the nerf was pointless. FVS wings, tempest, even wail. It makes a bunch of elitists happy, but ticks off a pile of regular people who will at some point just throw their hands in the air and go find something else to do. No nerf ever brought a new player to the game, that's for sure.

    And the shearer problem, which is hurting everyone as the difficulty level is tuned to them, goes completely unaddressed.

  2. #22
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    the game needs some heavy nerfing
    though the nerfs shouldn't be only about players, the monsters needs nerfing as well

    granted all the nerfing could have been avoided if there had been enough proper thoughts put into the game before new stuff/effects gets released
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  3. #23
    Community Member Viconiax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    Some people spend years building and outfitting their toons. They play that toon many hours every week and love how they "play". Then a Nerf comes along and all that time is wasted. That's when we lose people.....
    Exactly

  4. #24
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
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    I don't think they should ever make the playability of a players charachter less effective. That really turns people off, especially after investing countless hours into building the toon "just right" I'm ok with nerfing other things. If they have to, just make the mobs more powerful.l, if they have to. I can deal with "It got stronger!"

    I can remember this little white rabbit way out in the middle of no where in Asheron's Call. It would take you 30 minutes to get there in the beginning of the game, but sure enough, entire guilds would run out there. 100's of people at a time. That little thing would kill everyone. It was amazing. Sure enough every few weeks we would go out thee. Another Wipe! When the Rabbit lost, sure enough it grew stronger! I don't think people mind a challenge, even an almost unbeatable one. But my god!! Don't Nerf my toon!
    Last edited by Battlehawke; 03-04-2013 at 08:50 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    Some people spend years building and outfitting their toons. They play that toon many hours every week and love how they "play". Then a Nerf comes along and all that time is wasted. That's when we lose people.....
    It's not just that, it's that we invest so much time in one or two characters, they get the best attention, gear, tomes, etc. Then someone says they need to be nerfed because we spent 6 or 7 years building them and they want the same character in a week or two, that makes us want to take a vacation for a few weeks to months...

    Saal
    "Fools said I, you do not know. Silence like a cancer grows, hear my words that I might teach you, take my hand that I might reach you, but my words like silent raindrops fell...."-Paul Simon "Day after day, we caught no breath or motion. As idle as a painted ship upon a painted ocean."--Coleridge

  6. #26
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viconiax View Post
    Seen lot of people and posts on forums nowadays that keep complaining stuff is overpowered and want to nerf them.

    Please devs, don't start to nerf anymore stuff, it'll just hurt the game. It is better to spend $ on fixing bugs and lags than to nerf stuff.

    The less nerf, the more people staying. The more bugs and lag, the more people leaving.
    Please DEVs if it is for the betterment of the game correct (nerf) balancing of classes and/or items as needed. I mean this sincerely I would hate to see anyone class, item or weapon over power the game and throw out any balancing. The balancing of the game is what makes customization of classes and items so valuable to DDO. The worst thing that could happen is that everyone in the game only wants that one item because it is far better than all others or only wants to build that one character. NO, keep balancing the game as needed and if that means correcting (nerfing) a few things I'm all onboard.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Viconiax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    Please DEVs if it is for the betterment of the game correct (nerf) balancing of classes and/or items as needed. I mean this sincerely I would hate to see anyone class, item or weapon over power the game and throw out any balancing. The balancing of the game is what makes customization of classes and items so valuable to DDO. The worst thing that could happen is that everyone in the game only wants that one item because it is far better than all others or only wants to build that one character. NO, keep balancing the game as needed and if that means correcting (nerfing) a few things I'm all onboard.
    So I could build a perfect toon that took 2 years to build, then one moment, because of someone jealousy (I thought this is not a pvp game), turbine going to nerf that toon and I waste 2 years of time on that toon, and then I have to start that toon all over again. THIS is one of the reason we lose many ddo players over the year. Also, some people have spend a long time farming for a good item that took years to farm, then one second (oh no their toon is better than mine! But I don't want to spend that amount of time to make a good toon, so just nerf it! Now their toon is as gimp as mine! )...Another reason we lose some players. D&D is never balance, remember that.

    Now, how would people feel when they seen that their toon that they took a long time to build had been nerfed? They get mad, and when they get mad, they delete ddo and then done with the game.

    One person or group of people jealousy towards others could cause a big chance (LARGE group of people leaving ddo, which I bet many of ddo players have seen happening in the past).

  8. #28
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    Would this be a recent GH xp nerf? I was over budget after the update. I didn't even do Cry or Crucible. It was during 25% week, hence, the spilling over of xp, so I'm curious if it has been lowered since at all.

    I'm hoping that is just a false alarm.
    It's a false alarm. Brickwall made this claim in another thread, and it was disproven by people taking the time to actually check the numbers... Makes me a little angry he posted it again after being proven wrong.

    He TRs every week like clockwork, and like he's working a factory floor. Even if his nerf rumor was true... If having to run 31 quests 10x each every week (out of 300 possible quests) instead of 30 quests 10x each every week makes him quit... well.... he's obviously burned out, and just doesn't know it.
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    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
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    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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  9. #29
    Community Member Viconiax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    It's a false alarm. Brickwall made this claim in another thread, and it was disproven by people taking the time to actually check the numbers... Makes me a little angry he posted it again after being proven wrong.

    He TRs every week like clockwork, and like he's working a factory floor. Even if his nerf rumor was true... If having to run 31 quests 10x each every week (out of 300 possible quests) instead of 30 quests 10x each every week makes him quit... well.... he's obviously burned out, and just doesn't know it.
    My eyes probably going to bleed if I'm going to run 30 quests 10x each every week. O.O

    He must have way more patience than I do.

    And I haven't seen any nerf to GH xp yet.

  10. #30
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    don't worry, they are gonna nerf the difficulty only because all the "omfg devs i can't 1 shoot everything ingame" posts

    guess the stuff will stay pretty close to how is now
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viconiax View Post
    So I could build a perfect toon that took 2 years to build, then one moment, because of someone jealousy (I thought this is not a pvp game), turbine going to nerf that toon and I waste 2 years of time on that toon, and then I have to start that toon all over again. THIS is one of the reason we lose many ddo players over the year. Also, some people have spend a long time farming for a good item that took years to farm, then one second (oh no their toon is better than mine! But I don't want to spend that amount of time to make a good toon, so just nerf it! Now their toon is as gimp as mine! )...Another reason we lose some players. D&D is never balance, remember that.

    Now, how would people feel when they seen that their toon that they took a long time to build had been nerfed? They get mad, and when they get mad, they delete ddo and then done with the game.

    One person or group of people jealousy towards others could cause a big chance (LARGE group of people leaving ddo, which I bet many of ddo players have seen happening in the past).
    If you think D&D is never balanced, I don't think you ever played with a decent DM.

    But you do point out a fundamental problem with this game in that the degree of over-specialization and stacking synergies it allows is way out of hand. This just leads to the need to make these sorts of one trick pony characters simply to keep up with the content that is balanced around the possibility of their existence.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    If you think D&D is never balanced, I don't think you ever played with a decent DM.
    The DM is not the Game.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SableShadow View Post
    The DM is not the Game.
    No, the DM is god.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    No, the DM is god.
    Hope you got a decent god then, not one of those cheap knock-offs that doesn't even bother to read the module before running it.

    'Cause the game, captain, she ain't balanced worth a whisper.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    I've never capped a character, so my input probably isn't fantastic.

    I just think as far as equipment and (especially for melees) there needs to be more options, and the players and turbine need to support alternative playstyles. There's always one max DPS or max DC or max whatever build/equipment set that everyone wants to play and does, and so anything other than those fully optimized and specialized builds is considered bunk.

    I've seen so many threads where fantastic ideas are shut down by people who just tell them "you'll never be as good as X" and then they give up. True, it may not do DPS, but it's the style of gameplay they were looking for. I don't get much bunk from pugs on Sarlona when I use my strange builds, but I hear and see it all the time. The only time I've gotten bunk is when it's my first time running a quest and I don't know it. I have asked where a quest was, even though I had the pack, and gotten kicked from a group.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SableShadow View Post
    Hope you got a decent god then, not one of those cheap knock-offs that doesn't even bother to read the module before running it.

    'Cause the game, captain, she ain't balanced worth a whisper.
    Lol, module.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Lol, module.
    Exactly.
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  18. #38
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SableShadow View Post
    Hope you got a decent god then, not one of those cheap knock-offs that doesn't even bother to read the module before running it.

    'Cause the game, captain, she ain't balanced worth a whisper.
    The game is content balanced by the DM, not ability balanced in the character classes.

    If the group were to roll random encounters and just fight those it wouldnt even be remotely close to balanced.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #39
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    It's a false alarm. Brickwall made this claim in another thread, and it was disproven by people taking the time to actually check the numbers... Makes me a little angry he posted it again after being proven wrong.

    He TRs every week like clockwork, and like he's working a factory floor. Even if his nerf rumor was true... If having to run 31 quests 10x each every week (out of 300 possible quests) instead of 30 quests 10x each every week makes him quit... well.... he's obviously burned out, and just doesn't know it.
    The nerf isnt to xp itself, but to xp per minute due to invis not working, which allows people to run far more quests for BB XP before the insanity sets in. Its like working a factory floor where large crates and pallets need to be moved regularly, and the forklifts all broke down at the same time.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #40
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    You don't get more people in the game by spending your time looking for opportunities to nerf creations that were years in the making (time spent by individuals carefully tuning their characters to peak performance).
    That has never made the game grow by leaps and bounds.

    Spend the bulk of the time fixing bugs which harm the time spent on character creation and also on time creating new adventures and new packs. The game is already grindy enough to new characters that nothing really needs to be tuned down. If anything, weaker archetypes need to be buffed somewhat rather than nerfing things that feel balanced down to the level of the weaker mechanics.

    Also, keep in mind, things that might appear overpowered in some circumstances might be overly weak on other types of maps while archetypes that appear weak on certain maps shine in other scenarios.

    The problem with nerfing is that it often goes way too far and makes the mechanic completely worthless and years of tuning down the drain along with fellow players who leave for that reason.

    The two best players in my guild (and friends I sorely miss) left not because of OP mechanics in the game, but due to nerfing to oblivion of things they had enjoyed and had built up for years.

    Focus on the bugs and new adventures and if you think something is overpowered, remember these words: "Not so fast." It may be balanced in other ways like other maps or the amount of time it took to build the toon or the difficulty and skill it takes to play that archetype whatever it happens to be.

    A rich and complex environment is not going to occur if there is an over-emphasis (to the point of paranoia) that something is OP.

    DDO actually has a lot going for it and it is due to the diversity of classes, races, and mixing and matching thereof. There is only a finite amount of time and resources and the emphasis ought to be on creating a richer environment rather than "OMG that monk soloed ETK we will make the trash mobs crazy difficult to defeat breaking the game and never fixing it again."
    Last edited by maximus123123; 03-06-2013 at 03:48 PM.

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