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  1. #1
    Community Member zichant's Avatar
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    Default Abusing game mechanics to complete EE

    I am not very experienced on running Epic Elite quests. My guild usually sticks to EH but we have done a few EE quests together, almost always successfully.

    I have heard pugs chatting about using an exploit to complete epic elite difficulty.

    Why? So they can say that they completed EE but really we did not win; they cheated and ended the quest killing a boss that could not touch them. Where is the glory and challenge in that?

    I think I am losing my faith in pug groups. I want to run EE with people that can help me complete it because they are skilled in their roles and not because they know how to cheat.

    (Thank you, Gkar)
    Last edited by zichant; 02-25-2013 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Did not realize my post was in violation of forum rules.

  2. #2
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Edit your post. In the post about today you included the replicatable details of an exploit, and that can earn you a forum ban.

    Even the first one is a close call.

    Just say "using an exploit" and give no detail.

    As to your point, people in general do what is easiest, especially if the fight isn't fun.

  3. #3
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    talk about a exploit that everybody knows isn't gonna get you a ban
    talking about a non-famous exploit is... oh well, you discovered all the solo EE pro's!! XD
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  4. #4
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    While challenge is fun, if the only challenge is to the healer's pot supply, it is often more considerate to complete the quest in the safest way possible.

    Edit: I don't know what specifically was done. True exploits are wrong, but there are many tricks that are not considered exploits that people call exploits in a misinformed way.
    Last edited by aristarchus1000; 02-25-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zichant View Post
    I want to run EE with people that can help me complete it because they are skilled in their roles and not because they know how to cheat.
    Sounds like it might be time to find a guild with a similar outlook.
    PUGS will generally take the path of least resistance, I've found.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Davelfus's Avatar
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    looks like we are back to the old epic style then?

    have you guys already fogotten the old epic big top? (and many others...)

  7. #7
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    This is how a lot of people play EE. It's one of the reasons I prefer to solo. Used to happen a lot in raids. Then old Epics. Now there are new ways. I don't mind them doing it, someone else achieving EE solos doesn't bother me, but I don't really want to be a part of it. Hell, maybe they can keep doing that and sell me some EE stuff on the cheap...

    EDIT: I think stuff like this contributes to the desire too: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...04&postcount=7

    .03%...really? No one wants to run content 'legitimately' trying to get that...DDO drop rates are BS.
    Last edited by rimble; 02-25-2013 at 11:11 AM.

  8. #8
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    Is bringing the medusa to the mirror an exploit? Is bringing Unas into the room with the light source an exploit? Is tanking an exploit? If you get around a trap without a rogue, is that an exploit? If you pull monsters one at a time is that an exploit? How come it is ok to play smart only sometimes? How come it is only acceptable to use a portion of the game to your advantage? Is the safe spot in CitW an exploit? Should I just stand in the open and get my SP dominated? If you use your brain to solve an issue you face, you grasp the concept of DnD. Grats to anyone who outsmarts difficulty. Isn't DnD supposed to be about out thinking and out maneuvering the issues your DM presents you with? The 'DM' created the quest environment. If I was not meant to utilize this environment, then the environment created should have been a white box. Kinda like prison of the planes, or belly in the beast, or the arena challenges or crucible end fight. Realize that the environment is an intended part of your strategic tool set. If they didn't want you to use the environment, there would be no environment.


  9. #9
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eighnuss View Post
    Is bringing the medusa to the mirror an exploit? Is bringing Unas into the room with the light source an exploit? Is tanking an exploit? If you get around a trap without a rogue, is that an exploit? If you pull monsters one at a time is that an exploit? How come it is ok to play smart only sometimes?
    Creating a situation in which you can damage a mob but they can not damage use has been defined by Turbine as an exploit.

    That help you understand the difference?

  10. #10
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    gz eighnuss for showing us that you are ok using exploits

    playing with cheats isn't playing, is a sickness... maybe paying some real life frustrations ingame, ok so you can't buy that car but you can use that bugs to get that awesome gear... nice

    the price of things it's not offer and demmand, is the price/cost/effort you give to it

    is nice to see that all the achievements and gear of a toon mean only ****, because no effort= no value

    you can live with that? sad life, must say, seems like you haven't won a **** with your sweat
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  11. #11
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    Going off on others doesn't help. Everyone has their own line they draw for exploits. I don't think twice about jumping the crates in new ringleader, but I don't jump walls in maze of madness. I can't offer any rationale why.

    I play the game my way and understand that others may play it differently. If I find something I think is to cheezy, then I report it, hope it gets fixed but try not to let it bother me.

    One of the reasons I tried to video my EE solo attempts was to show I was doing the walk in and kick butt approach to soloing them. That approach will limit what I can do, and I'm willing to live with that limit.

    Find people who like to play the way you do... don't worry about the rest. You can't force them to change.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Creating a situation in which you can damage a mob but they can not damage use has been defined by Turbine as an exploit.

    That help you understand the difference?
    Turbine might want to reconsider that stance a bit, since most of us would call it strategy. It's what commanders on every battlefield look for, a way to position thier troops to damage the enemy without taking much or any in return. This is a natural thing for many to look for, the high ground where they can rain death and destruction upon the enemy and not be splattered like a pancake in return.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Creating a situation in which you can damage a mob but they can not damage use has been defined by Turbine as an exploit.

    That help you understand the difference?
    So we can officially declare blur, displacement, incorporeal, DR, PRR, leap of faith, protection from elements and resistance, evasion, improved evasion, crowd control and ddoor all exploits? This is official now? Thank you for clarifying the difference for me.

    And as far as psy's post, all I can say is that it takes a big man to insult someone and assume things without actually addressing any of the points made. Thank you for taking the chance to attack my character instead of reading any of the text in my post. Your public expression of excellence is approved by me.
    Last edited by Eighnuss; 02-25-2013 at 11:43 AM.

  14. #14
    Community Member Hikup's Avatar
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    Is it really that difficult to see the difference between mitigating damage and exploiting the many, many developer failures - or do some of you just enjoy playing the devils advocate/ trolling?

    And OP, sounds like you just need to find a guild that likes to play - not snore in a safe spot like a chump.

  15. #15
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Turbine might want to reconsider that stance a bit, since most of us would call it strategy. It's what commanders on every battlefield look for, a way to position thier troops to damage the enemy without taking much or any in return. This is a natural thing for many to look for, the high ground where they can rain death and destruction upon the enemy and not be splattered like a pancake in return.
    Welp, I've obviously missed out on EoW (Exploit of the week); but if I get your gist, folks are using cover and/or concealment to kill mobs. I know there is a problem with Gianthold Dragons who can't "see" around a blade of grass, but if you're talking about things such as seeking height (hopping onto boxes and such) or dodging in and out from behind cover - those are tactics.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Creating a situation in which you can damage a mob but they can not damage use has been defined by Turbine as an exploit.

    That help you understand the difference?
    Actually, I think turbine defined it as causing the mobs to freeze up and become unresponsive, not simply not being able to damage you.

    I will need to dig up the reference at some point.
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  17. #17
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Turbine might want to reconsider that stance a bit, since most of us would call it strategy. It's what commanders on every battlefield look for, a way to position thier troops to damage the enemy without taking much or any in return. This is a natural thing for many to look for, the high ground where they can rain death and destruction upon the enemy and not be splattered like a pancake in return.
    Seeking the optimal location = strategy
    (for example, taking a high point knowing their ranged attack sucks compared to their melee)

    Seeking a location that due to a design flaw in the geometry or AI leaves you invulnerable = exploit
    (for example, standing on a percise spot on top of a particular piece of the environment lets you hit them, but all attemps to melee, spell cast, AOE, or range you mysteriously don't hit you and don't get an attack roll on you)

    It really isn't that hard.

    I don't care really if you exploit things like that, frankly I think people are encouraged to do it by the devs thinking 8 trillion HP= challenge (which it does not, its just annoying) but at least be honest about what you are doing, you found a way to cheat, congrats. Hopefully you won't be caught and banned.
    Last edited by Gkar; 02-25-2013 at 12:11 PM.

  18. #18
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eighnuss View Post
    So we can officially declare blur, displacement, incorporeal, DR, PRR, leap of faith, protection from elements and resistance, evasion, improved evasion, crowd control and ddoor all exploits? This is official now? Thank you for clarifying the difference for me.
    You clearly didn't read what I said. Go back, read it again, I'm sure you can figure out what you misunderstood.

  19. #19
    Community Member zeonardo's Avatar
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    I don't care...

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It can certainly hurt to be on the receiving end of a nerf

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Seeking the optimal location = strategy.

    Seeking a location that due to a design flaw in the geometry or AI leaves you out of melee range but still completely susceptible to ranged and casting = exploit

    It really isn't that hard.
    FTFY

    You mean like walking backwards? Like Toven and Demon Queen? Like making a barb wall? You need a different arguement. 'Everyone should stand in melee range' is not valid. Tactics are not a crime. The environment is as much of a tool as your gear. Ignoring the environment is like ignoring your gear slots.

    If you have a problem with the way the quests are designed, then complain about that. Don't get mad at players for doing whatever seems strategically best. The mappers have the ability to make transparent barriers. They place them where they see fit. Go ask for more invisible barriers. I call them 'Player Clips'. Many games use them to keep players where they belong. DDO does as well.

    Stop telling people they are cheating/exploiting/criminals. Every single player has exploited at some point in their ddo time, in someone's opinion. Someone's strategy is someone else's version of cheating. The only similarity between these various strategies and/or exploits is that they had to exist to be used/abused. Pick your issue and your scapegoat with that in mind. These things were added to the game, just like your favorite piece of loot or the most annoying bug you can think of.

    Quote Originally Posted by GKar
    Creating a situation in which you can damage a mob but they can not damage use
    As shown above, the mob CAN damage use. They just need to use non melee. This tactic is applied in reverse in DQ and MA.

    If you can noclip out of the map and dump from the heavens, that is an exploit. If you can float in the air high enough that AI breaks and monsters become unresponsive, that is an exploit. Otherwise it is a feature that was added.
    Last edited by Eighnuss; 02-25-2013 at 12:35 PM.

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