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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derailment View Post
    other will bully you, treating to not allow in raids with not only them, but all raiding guilds around server.
    If you want to join some particular raid, you should be prepared to abide by their rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derailment View Post
    Imagine you said before raid: all loot need to put for roll. At chests someone will laugh and will pass it to friend/guildie.
    If they want to join YOUR raid, they should be prepared to abide by your rules. If they don't, go ahead and bully them to not allow them in raids with you or your comrades.

  2. #22
    Community Member Derailment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    If you want to join some particular raid, you should be prepared to abide by their rules.
    Don't made up things. When I join some particular raid, I only abiding to raid timer mechanics and quest objectives.
    All things added by players are optional and subject to evaluation and consideration.
    Last edited by Derailment; 02-22-2013 at 03:38 AM.

  3. #23
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    If you/someone don't want to agree with rules given by leader, enjoy your blacklisting.
    Its that simple.
    If you/someone think breaking rules and beign blacklisted by some players/guilds (and possibly having your guildmates blacklisted) is worth it, go ahead, but don't cry when someone don't want to play with you.

  4. #24
    Community Member Cogdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    My loot rules

    1. I want it I take it

    2. Friend or guildie wants it they get it

    3. Someone for current life wants it they get it (if multiple they roll)

    4. Everyone else can roll

    5. vendor
    My loot rules purely depend on my mood. It has happened that a piece of loot what dropped for me in a chest would have been an upgrade for me, but I passed it to another player. He never asked for it, but I knew his gear, and I knew it would be a bigger upgrade for him than for me. Maybe I was just in a giving mood I dont know. All I know is that he never forgot that gesture and we became friends.

    If I am in a group where people are not friendly, you can be damn sure I am not giving my loot away as happily as I would during a cheerful dungeon run. It is all about how I feel at that moment. Make me feel better and you might get loot...:P

    The only thing what you can be sure of regarding loot: if it has dropped under your name in the chest, you can do whatever you want with it, as this is exactly what the game clients lets you do, nothing less, nothing more.

    Cogdoc

  5. #25
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derailment View Post
    Don't made up things. When I join some particular raid, I only abiding to raid timer mechanics and quest objectives.
    All things added by players are optional and subject to evaluation and consideration.
    Of course. But if you join a group that has those optional rules and makes them known and you choose not to abide by them, then don't act all innocent when they decide to never allow you into their groups again.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derailment View Post
    All things added by players are optional and subject to evaluation and consideration.
    If they were made known to you up front, then go ahead, evaluate, consider, and decide to either follow them or drop group. Or be a dishonest griefer and get blacklisted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derailment View Post
    other will bully you, treating to not allow in raids with not only them, but all raiding guilds around server.
    If you show such disrepect and dishonesty to the group leader as to deliberately violate the expectations made known to you up front, then it's not suprising that they wouldn't allow you in future raids.

  7. #27
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    About the obvious "my name my loot" which so many people quote but not everyone seems to fully understand...

    Yes, it's true it's your loot. But you might wanna avoid being a jerk leaving stuff in chest or vendoring it etc.. On the other hand, TRing is much faster and easier than it used to be, and it makes sense to loot a raid item for an upcoming life, especially if you intend to spend a good amount of time in end game on said life.

    I recall someone saying that a while ago you could actually know most of the people running endgame, because endgame was harder. So, since those names were recurring, it mattered a lot more to have a nice reputation etc...now, with endgame being so disgustingly EASY, (at least pre-GH, not sure if that will change tho), a lot of casual players have access to that content earlier.
    And they either don't know "loot manners" or just don't care. I've always used to be very fair about loot, not ninja-passing to guildies/friends but letting everyone roll instead etc...But now it seems those are common practise (passing w/o roll etc), dunno, maybe it's the "lootiquette" itself that is shifting...would be lame but can't really be helped.

    Hence "my name my loot", it's the only enforceable rule...I'll still try and blacklist jerks when I spot them and I encourage everyone to do the same but not sure if it will be of any use.
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    If you show such disrepect and dishonesty to the group leader as to deliberately violate the expectations made known to you up front, then it's not suprising that they wouldn't allow you in future raids.
    and the raid leader making control freak rules isnt being disrespectful to every single player that wants to just come along ?

    Every single raid leader that makes rules , are the ones to avoid for me due to the immaturity and control freak disrespect to others.

    Control freaks are the problem, they are their own problem, and generally suffer from denial that it is only their problem by trying to justifying with the lamest excuses.

  9. #29
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eme View Post
    and the raid leader making control freak rules isnt being disrespectful to every single player that wants to just come along ?

    Every single raid leader that makes rules , are the ones to avoid for me due to the immaturity and control freak disrespect to others.

    Control freaks are the problem, they are their own problem, and generally suffer from denial that it is only their problem by trying to justifying with the lamest excuses.
    When you were a kid, would you join some others, start demanding they play what YOU want, and then run to tell everybody else how nasty the others were. I doubt it, or if you did, shame on you. When i see a group with rules i dont want to follow, i dont join. Simple as that.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    When you were a kid, would you join some others, start demanding they play what YOU want, and then run to tell everybody else how nasty the others were. I doubt it, or if you did, shame on you. When i see a group with rules i dont want to follow, i dont join. Simple as that.
    same here, but the point i was making is that even if someone is setting up a raid, it doesnt give them the right to demand these rules.

    Being a group leader does NOT give you power over game mechanics and to demand how the game deals loot out.

    These leaders need to get over themselves and grow up. If anything these leaders need people to join and totally ignore the rules they set more and more then eventually they will see there is no place for that kind of control freak behavior.

  11. #31
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eme View Post
    and the raid leader making control freak rules isnt being disrespectful to every single player that wants to just come along ?

    Every single raid leader that makes rules , are the ones to avoid for me due to the immaturity and control freak disrespect to others.

    Control freaks are the problem, they are their own problem, and generally suffer from denial that it is only their problem by trying to justifying with the lamest excuses.
    I don't generally like rules that are set up by Raid leaders concerning loot. But if I just want to go and do the raid then I decide whether I want to abide by those rules or not. If I don't I don't join. If I want to join then I agree to abide by the rules.

    If they are too "control freak" about their rules then I sumply choose not to join.

    At the end of the day, the only "problem" is your own. "Control freaks" won't care about your grudge. And they probably will "blacklist" you for not abiding by their rules.

    I've had to deal with control freaks. Including Raid leaders who make up their rules as you get to the chest, which was very prevalent when DDO just changed the Raid loot rules from Party Leader control to random drops; the leader's were used to having control of the loot and didn't like that it could go to anyone. Yes, it is their "problem" but we have to deal with it. I just make my decisions based on how I like the group, just like someone posted earlier. If I like them, then I'm willing to bend over backwards to help them out and give them what they want. If I don't, then I probably don't care that I'll get "blacklisted".

    But remember, sometimes you are just going along for the ride because it's a Guild Run that opens up a slot or two for PuGs. Now it's up to you whether to abide by any rules.

    Nowadays, it seems so rare that there even are rules beyond the common sense and common courtesy ones. BUt it does happen. Decide if you want to abide by their rules. If you don/t and you go along anyway, decide if you care about any possible "consequences".

    Best thing to do, IMO, if there are rules you don't like, just don't join or drop group before the Raid starts.

  12. #32
    Community Member Derailment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    If you/someone don't want to agree with rules given by leader, enjoy your blacklisting.
    Its that simple.
    If you/someone think breaking rules and beign blacklisted by some players/guilds (and possibly having your guildmates blacklisted) is worth it, go ahead, but don't cry when someone don't want to play with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    Of course. But if you join a group that has those optional rules and makes them known and you choose not to abide by them, then don't act all innocent when they decide to never allow you into their groups again.
    You guys either play on some low-populated servers or just stick with mentality of years ago.
    C'mon days when you were need some tactical genius leader are already in the past. Nowaday leader function is merely gather others who want to do same raid as him.

    Today's DDO is just open PUG and accept 11 first clicked people, teach new players, easy complete with them and let them do with their loot whenever they want. Nobody will give a copper for your server wide blacklist.

    When today someone put LFG for raid with so-called rules, adequate people immediately put same LFG but without BS there.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    I don't generally like rules that are set up by Raid leaders concerning loot. But if I just want to go and do the raid then I decide whether I want to abide by those rules or not. If I don't I don't join. If I want to join then I agree to abide by the rules.

    If they are too "control freak" about their rules then I sumply choose not to join.

    At the end of the day, the only "problem" is your own. "Control freaks" won't care about your grudge. And they probably will "blacklist" you for not abiding by their rules.

    I've had to deal with control freaks. Including Raid leaders who make up their rules as you get to the chest, which was very prevalent when DDO just changed the Raid loot rules from Party Leader control to random drops; the leader's were used to having control of the loot and didn't like that it could go to anyone. Yes, it is their "problem" but we have to deal with it. I just make my decisions based on how I like the group, just like someone posted earlier. If I like them, then I'm willing to bend over backwards to help them out and give them what they want. If I don't, then I probably don't care that I'll get "blacklisted".

    But remember, sometimes you are just going along for the ride because it's a Guild Run that opens up a slot or two for PuGs. Now it's up to you whether to abide by any rules.

    Nowadays, it seems so rare that there even are rules beyond the common sense and common courtesy ones. BUt it does happen. Decide if you want to abide by their rules. If you don/t and you go along anyway, decide if you care about any possible "consequences".

    Best thing to do, IMO, if there are rules you don't like, just don't join or drop group before the Raid starts.
    yes totaly, ive been here from the start too and have seen all the various loot incarnations along the way as well.

    But these leaders that try to control things need someone to point out to them that the best raid runs are by people that have a good, fair and LONG past game history, from communities of people that grew from not being control freaks. That they will find it harder and harder to find groups themselves, and due to their own control freak issues and greed will end up putting more and more rules up.

    They will only alienate THEMSELVES from the rest of the server, and these raids they insist on making immature rules for will take longer and longer to fill with less and less experienced players.

    These control freak leaders are in fact shooting themselves in the foot.
    Last edited by Eme; 02-22-2013 at 05:07 AM.

  14. #34
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derailment View Post
    You guys either play on some low-populated servers or just stick with mentality of years ago.
    C'mon days when you were need some tactical genius leader are already in the past. Nowaday leader function is merely gather others who want to do same raid as him.

    Today's DDO is just open PUG and accept 11 first clicked people, teach new players, easy complete with them and let them do with their loot whenever they want. Nobody will give a copper for your server wide blacklist.

    When today someone put LFG for raid with so-called rules, adequate people immediately put same LFG but without BS there.
    I guess I just go by the mentality that if a group, Raid or otherwise, has rules I don't like, I just don't join. I rather not make a liar out of myself and pretend I'll abide by rules when I have no intention of doing so. I guess it's just my own moral code, that's all.

    I don't blame others for doing so, to perhaps teach someone a lesson. But like you said, if there is a raid group being led by someone with selfish and unwarranted rules, then it's just as easy to get another raid going without those rules.

    However, if a Raid leader, or anyone else for that matter, tries to make rules up once the raid is going, welll then, good luck getting me to obey them. If rules aren't stated up front when I can easily decide if I want to stay or not, then all bets are off, and I'll give unneeded loot to the ones I like, not to the ones making demands.

  15. #35
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eme View Post
    same here, but the point i was making is that even if someone is setting up a raid, it doesnt give them the right to demand these rules.

    Being a group leader does NOT give you power over game mechanics and to demand how the game deals loot out.

    These leaders need to get over themselves and grow up. If anything these leaders need people to join and totally ignore the rules they set more and more then eventually they will see there is no place for that kind of control freak behavior.
    You're dead wrong. If my lfm says "all loot is for roll" and you join and then loot/pass an item w/o putting it for roll you and you alone are being disrespectful, untrustworthy etc., and you deserve to be blacklisted by as many people as possible.

    If the lfm says nothing, if extra rules are not stated at the beginning etc., then yes you can do as you like (can still get blacklisted ofc). But if the leader explicitely says at the beginning that there are special rules for that run, if you don't like them you should drop out of the party, not break them at the end. That's what a jerk does imho.
    Last edited by FengXian; 02-22-2013 at 05:23 AM.
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  16. #36
    Community Member Derailment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    You're dead wrong. If my lfm says "all loot is for roll" and you join and then loot/pass an item w/o putting it for roll you're and you alone are being disrespectful, untrustworthy etc., and you deserve to be blacklisted by as many people as possible.
    If LFM says "all loot is for roll" that means only one - leader wrote that in LFM comment field and probably will put his loot for roll. However I've seen leaders which PASSED items to friends in those LFG

    Of course you can expect that all will do that, but you can't say they HAVE to, or all will do.
    Last edited by Derailment; 02-22-2013 at 05:33 AM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    You're dead wrong. If my lfm says "all loot is for roll" and you join and then loot/pass an item w/o putting it for roll you and you alone are being disrespectful, untrustworthy etc., and you deserve to be blacklisted by as many people as possible.

    If the lfm says nothing, if extra rules are not stated at the beginning etc., then yes you can do as you like (can still get blacklisted ofc). But if the leader explicitely says at the beginning that there are special rules for that run, if you don't like them you should drop out of the party, not break them at the end. That's what a jerk does imho.
    just tryin to help you dude, read the rest of the posts.
    Ignore the good advice as you wish, its only your reputation, keep running bad raids where you feel you need to control everyone else because of your greed, ill stick to the decent groups with no rules and generous friendly people i have been running with since the game came out.

  18. #38
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derailment View Post
    If LFM says "all loot is for roll" that means only one - leader wrote that in LFM comment field and probably will put his loot for roll. However I've seen leaders which PASSED items to friends in those LFG
    You know what I mean. Say it was "all loot has to be for roll", better? -_- if you saw leaders pass stuff in such lfms, blacklist and move on I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eme View Post
    just tryin to help you dude, read the rest of the posts.
    Ignore the good advice as you wish, its only your reputation, keep running bad raids where you feel you need to control everyone else because of your greed, ill stick to the decent groups with no rules and generous friendly people i have been running with since the game came out.
    I did read the rest of the posts. I can guarantee a reputation of someone who willing breaks clearly stated rules will suffer way more that the reputation of the leader who created those rules (as long as it's "all is for roll" and not "pass all your loot to me" kind of rules ofc).

    The advice being good is very arguable also strawmanned but that's a common practice here...
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    You know what I mean. Say it was "all loot has to be for roll", better? -_- if you saw leaders pass stuff in such lfms, blacklist and move on I guess.



    I did read the rest of the posts. I can guarantee a reputation of someone who willing breaks clearly stated rules will suffer way more that the reputation of the leader who created those rules (as long as it's "all is for roll" and not "pass all your loot to me" kind of rules ofc).

    The advice being good is very arguable also strawmanned but that's a common practice here...
    the person that breaks said rules, suffers only the wrath of the leader.

    The leader that makes rules, broadcasts they are a jerk to the entire server themselves, and the more they do it the more people link their name with 'avoid'.

  20. #40
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eme View Post
    the person that breaks said rules, suffers only the wrath of the leader.

    The leader that makes rules, broadcasts they are a jerk to the entire server themselves, and the more they do it the more people link their name with 'avoid'.
    The person who breaks said rules "suffers the wrath", so to say, of the whole party (if I join the party and abide those rules, I won't like you, who join the same party and break them), and possibly their guilds/friends. Again, as long as such rules are reasonable (but "everything has to be for roll" IS reasonable, granted I wouldn't always join such lfm).

    And the leader may look a jerk to you and maybe 5-10 other people on the server...maybe 20? definitely a minority tho. So no biggie really.
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

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