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  1. #1
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
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    Default Rogue skills in elites.

    I join a pug on my lowbie level 7 rogue.
    I am asked if I can "search well", which I take to mean, do I have trap skills?
    I respond that I have my skills maxed, competence gear maxed, fox pots, hero pots, Mech I boost, several enhancements, skill boost 2, 14 base int, and +5 tools.

    We walk into Temple of Vol elite.
    I can neither spot nor search anything, of course.
    What am I missing?

  2. #2
    Community Member wgperi's Avatar
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    Red face

    Church and the cult is a level 9 quest, on elite it goes up to 11. It is tough for lowbies to catch up with the scaling, although it becomes less intense on high levels, on low levels it hurts a lot. Try that again once youre 8~10 and you'll do fine.

    edit: Additionally you can try the wiki, overwhelming info about it. here's a link http://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_informat...h_and_the_Cult
    Last edited by wgperi; 02-19-2013 at 08:11 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgperi View Post
    on elite it goes up to 11.
    This doesn't really mean anything in terms of quest content.
    It's true that the quest is considered two levels higher for experience calculation and chests are given a two level bump.
    But trap difficulty and monster CR of a level 9 elite quest bears no relation to a level 11 normal quest.
    Last edited by FrozenNova; 02-19-2013 at 08:30 AM.

  4. #4

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    I guildy of mine, 9th level arti, is experiencing the same phenomenon. I have read half a dozen threads voicing the same observation over the last few weeks. Each time the majority of replies have asserted nothing in the game has changed. I've no reason to doubt these claims.

    However, my guildy is repeatedly failing spot and search DCs I know she should be able to easily make in elite content given her gear, stats and skills. It's not simply a matter of having the wrong gear equipped either. We have all taken to vocally reminding her to do a gear check when we know there are traps ahead. Our group's druid is spotting more than the arti which is just plain wrong. Something is amiss, but I have no idea what.
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  5. #5
    Community Member wgperi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenNova View Post
    This doesn't really mean anything in terms of quest content.
    It's true that the quest is considered two levels higher for experience calculation and chests are given a two level bump.
    But trap difficulty and monster CR of a level 9 elite quest bears no relation to a level 11 normal quest.
    No indeed, lvl9 elite quests have much tougher enemies than lvl11 normal quests, and higher DCs for traps as well. I believe you could easily spot and find lvl11 N traps. Just check the link I posted for further information how DCs scale.

  6. #6
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenNova View Post
    What am I missing?
    You are level 7. The quest is level 11 and thus you can be up to level 11 and still have a bravery bonus. Thus most players would be running it at level 11. The difference between level 7 and level 11 is four skill points. You are missing 4 in Spot, 4 in Search, and 4 in Disable Device.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    You are level 7. The quest is level 11 and thus you can be up to level 11 and still have a bravery bonus. Thus most players would be running it at level 11. The difference between level 7 and level 11 is four skill points. You are missing 4 in Spot, 4 in Search, and 4 in Disable Device.
    And likely 4 from better gear, 1 from better int item, and maybe more enhancements/better buffs.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    You are level 7. The quest is level 11 and thus you can be up to level 11 and still have a bravery bonus. Thus most players would be running it at level 11. The difference between level 7 and level 11 is four skill points. You are missing 4 in Spot, 4 in Search, and 4 in Disable Device.
    That is assuming an level 11 would be running around with level 7 gear and buffs. The actual difference would rather be around 12-16 points.
    That which does not kill you gives you experience points.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    The difference between level 7 and level 11 is four skill points. You are missing 4 in Spot, 4 in Search, and 4 in Disable Device.
    +GH, better gear ( +13 item, +6 int item ), good luck, maybe even + int skills greensteel. That might be 9 - 16 (?) skill difference. There is no conspiracy, your skills are just too low for lvl 11 on elite quest !
    Ghallanda

  10. #10
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    +GH, better gear ( +13 item, +6 int item ), good luck, maybe even + int skills greensteel. That might be 9 - 16 (?) skill difference.
    Actually he should have access to Good Luck now as the Voice of the Master is minimum level 5. If we're counting practically every self-usable buff then we should probably also count a +2 INT ship buff as he doesn't seem to have mentioned having it.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 02-19-2013 at 09:05 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    I guildy of mine, 9th level arti, is experiencing the same phenomenon. I have read half a dozen threads voicing the same observation over the last few weeks. Each time the majority of replies have asserted nothing in the game has changed. I've no reason to doubt these claims.

    However, my guildy is repeatedly failing spot and search DCs I know she should be able to easily make in elite content given her gear, stats and skills. It's not simply a matter of having the wrong gear equipped either. We have all taken to vocally reminding her to do a gear check when we know there are traps ahead. Our group's druid is spotting more than the arti which is just plain wrong. Something is amiss, but I have no idea what.
    I'm leveling a new rogueish build currently. Currently level 8 and I have noticed no issues at all with search or disable checks. Hes lacking in Spot so I cant speak for that.

    I havent seen the posts, but if its like this one, where we dont actually know what the the OP's Search and Spot skills were actually at, its hard to know for sure whats wrong(if anything)
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  12. #12
    Community Member Psiandron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgperi View Post
    No indeed, lvl9 elite quests have much tougher enemies than lvl11 normal quests, and higher DCs for traps as well. I believe you could easily spot and find lvl11 N traps. Just check the link I posted for further information how DCs scale.
    This.

    DCs vault upward as you go through the n, h, e range. IIRC the difficulty of elite is on the order of 5 levels above the quest normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    and then dropped it like a burning kitten

  13. #13
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    I'm leveling a new rogueish build currently. Currently level 8 and I have noticed no issues at all with search or disable checks. Hes lacking in Spot so I cant speak for that.

    I havent seen the posts, but if its like this one, where we dont actually know what the the OP's Search and Spot skills were actually at, its hard to know for sure whats wrong(if anything)
    There is nothing wrong.

    A lvl 7 rogue is simply not able to find and disable the traps in Temple of Vol on elite. I do not think anyone can do that at lvl 7.

  14. #14
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    Default

    it would not hurt to get your WIS up as that stat helps with the spot skill.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    The difference between level 7 and level 11 is four skill points. You are missing 4 in Spot, 4 in Search, and 4 in Disable Device.
    The actual difference between level 7 and level 11 is more then just 4. You can equip a higher + to spot item, you can equip a higher + int item and you have higher available enchantments to work with (skill boost, etc) and higher potential spells which will boost your abilities.

    I would estimate the difference to be about 7-9 higher.

  16. #16
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraiser View Post
    I would estimate the difference to be about 7-9 higher.
    Nice to see so many people correcting me and every single one of them produces a different increase total.
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  17. #17
    Community Member apaurin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgperi View Post
    ...it goes up to 11...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMSV4OteqBE

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  18. #18
    Community Member wgperi's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by apaurin View Post
    "... well its one louder." lol

  19. #19
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenNova View Post
    level 7 rogue.

    Temple of Vol elite.

    What am I missing?
    It's a level 14 quest on normal, and level 16 on elite. That means you are 9 levels below the quest level. That says to me that you were way over your head, so to speak.

    You would be very hard pressed to be able to get those traps on normal, considering. If you could get those traps on elite, at your level, that would be worthy of posting in the achievments forum.

    Your example is not a 'good' way to determine if your trap skills are where they should be. Your trapping skills are probably more than adequate, but going into that high of level a quest will not determine anything for you.

    Heck, your group leader should have known better.

    A good place to test your current trap skill level, would be to do Gwylan's Stand in House P on elite. If you can get those at your level, you are doing good.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    It's a level 14 quest on normal, and level 16 on elite.
    You're thinking of the "Desecrated Temple of Vol". This is the "Temple of Vol" in House Phiarlan used for "the Church and the Cult" quest.
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