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Thread: 18/2 Druid Monk

  1. #1
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    Default 18/2 Druid Monk

    Can someone please link me a build for caster wis based 18/2 druid monk please.

    I cant seem to find one. I will post my build later for critique

  2. #2
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    Default Sapphyrra 3rd life as Helf 18/2 druid monk with rogue dilletante

    This is generally what my build will look like. The enhancements needs to be fixed though.

    What you guys think of it in terms of usefullness and survivability at end game EE content

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
    (2 Monk \ 18 Druid) 
    Hit Points: 260
    Spell Points: 1433 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 18
    Reflex: 13
    Will: 23
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             15                    20
    Dexterity            14                    19
    Constitution         15                    18
    Intelligence          8                    12
    Wisdom               17                    28
    Charisma              9                    13
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 8
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 8
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 8
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 8
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 8
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 12
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 12
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 12
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 12
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 12
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 12
    +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                    21
    Bluff                -1                     1
    Concentration         6                    27
    Diplomacy            -1                    19
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle               -1                     1
    Heal                  3                     9
    Hide                  3                     5
    Intimidate           -1                     1
    Jump                  3                     9
    Listen                3                     9
    Move Silently         2                     4
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair               -1                     1
    Search               -1                     1
    Spot                  4                    20
    Swim                  2                     5
    Tumble                3                     5
    Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
    
    
    Level 2 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    
    
    Level 3 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf
    
    
    Level 4 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear
    
    
    Level 7 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Druid)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Wolf
    
    
    Level 10 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Druid)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear
    
    
    Level 13 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Water Elemental
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Druid)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    
    
    Level 19 (Druid)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Fire Elemental
    
    
    Level 20 (Druid)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Enhancement: Druid Season's Herald I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Druid Waxing Hoarfrost I
    Enhancement: Druid Waxing Storm I
    Enhancement: Druid Waxing Sun II
    Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life I
    Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life II
    Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Hoarfrost I
    Enhancement: Druid Zenith of the Storm I
    Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Life I
    Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Life II
    Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Life III
    Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus I
    Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus II
    Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus III
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost I
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost II
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost III
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Storm I
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun I
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun II
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun III
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life II
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life III
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Druid Strength I
    Enhancement: Druid Strength II
    Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Druid Wisdom II
    Enhancement: Druid Wisdom III
    Thank you all guys that can help me out

  3. #3
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    @ flipstre

    Can I ask questions about your build?

    I personally don't imagine I would use animal forms much for a Drunk build. For lower levels, and when you can elemental shift, TWF and improved TWF is pretty sweet, as is Evasion for all things.

    However, IIRC, the Monk also has some enhancements which aid unarmed fighting (unfortunately I can't actually recall anything specific), which should also be helpful for beast forms.


    Assuming you're using veteran status, why not take the monk levels together and immediately?

    I just think it might make melee more fun, in general.


    I recall that the Druid reaches it's 9th spell level at 18, if going pure. But you probably miss out on a few spell slots. Does anyone know how many, specifically?

    Can you still take a Druid Capstone? Or must you be pure?


    Also, I assume your enhancements are for endgame.
    Will you have them configured differently at lower levels?
    Can you (or anyone) share what would be different at lower levels, and if you reset more than once, when and what?
    Last edited by Phaeton_Seraph; 02-19-2013 at 11:09 AM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    So for EE you need to tell us what you have planed for an ED. Angle, Shiradi, GMoF, or Fury are all options for this build. Angle if you plan to be a healer, GMoF if you want a hybrid caster melee with awesome CC, Shiradi for pure caster dps and CC, or Fury if you just want to be a meh melee. If your going for something that can fight in melee in EE you will need Toughness.

    My Drunk has the following Stats/Feat/Enhancements the goal is to CC with Earthquake, Drifting Lotus, and Everything is Nothing.

    16 STR
    13 CON
    13 DEX
    08 INT
    18 WIS
    08 CHA
    +4 Tome to all but Int and Cha.

    Level 01 Maximize Spell,
    Level 01 (Human) Toughness
    Level 03 Empower Spell
    Level 06 Past Life: Arcane Initiate
    Level 09 Spell Focus: Evocation
    Level 12 Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    Level 15 Quicken Spell
    Level 18 Heighten Spell
    Level 19 (Monk Bonus) Power Attack/Stunning Fist
    Level 20 (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    Level 21 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Level 24 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    At the moment I don't have the gear to make Stunning Fist work when i do I'll lose out on Power Attack

    Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature III
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Druid Waxing Hoarfrost III
    Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Hoarfrost III
    Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus IV
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost IV
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life III
    Enhancement: Druid Strength II
    Enhancement: Druid Wisdom III
    Enhancement: Druid Toughness IV
    I skipped out on the PRE because its overpriced IMO

    Grand Master of Flowers: A Dance of Flowers III
    Grand Master of Flowers: Enlightenment III
    Grand Master of Flowers: Lily Petal
    Grand Master of Flowers: Orchid Blossom
    Grand Master of Flowers: Perfection of Soul I
    Grand Master of Flowers: Drifting Lotus
    Grand Master of Flowers: Everything is Nothing
    Grand Master of Flowers: Wisdom VI

    Twist of Fate: Spell School Specialization Evocation
    Twist of Fate: Precise Casting Evocation
    Twist of Fate: Endless Faith
    Would switch out Endless Faith for Unearthly Reactions but that would leave me with to few SP maybe in time when this guy gets better gear ill still switch that out.

    In quest where there are lots of mobs all of whom want to melee (e.g. EE Belly of the Beast) that is where I have found the most success with this build, basically anything that will run in to your earthquake makes you one of the best CC capable classes in the game.

    I'm still figuring out what I think his ideal gear set up is.

    Sorry, think I've rambled on enough about what im doing hopefully this helps you with your build.
    Last edited by Grailhawk; 02-19-2013 at 11:37 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    I recall that the Druid reaches it's 9th spell level at 18, if going pure. But you probably miss out on a few spell slots. Does anyone know how many, specifically?

    Can you still take a Druid Capstone? Or must you be pure?
    Druid get 2 9th level spells at 17 and on additional one at 18. Generally speaking that means and 18/2 will take Mass Regeneration, Storm of Vengeance, and what ever form stance you will be in most.

    To take a capstone in any class you must be level 20 of that class.

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    For this build i am primarily looking for a frontline healer caster that can melee i guess. The main point of the build is to be able to heal and CC (earthquake & stunning fist) so that i can contribute to the party. Will most likely act as a backup healer for raids and parties.

    Wisdom will be 17 (base) + 7 (exceptional bonus)+ 2 (exc/ins) + 3 (enhancements) + 5 (levels ups) +4 (tome)= 38 (ok'ish I think) I can put more depending on gear

    Dex is 14 (base) + 7 (exceptional bonus)+ 2 (exc/ins) + 2 ([helf rogue dilly) enhancements) + 3 (tome) = 28

    Strength 15 (base) + 7 (exceptional bonus)+ 2 (exc/ins) + 2 (enhancements) + 2 (tome) = 28

    Con 15 (base) + 7 (exceptional bonus)+ 2 (exc/ins) + 3 (tome) = 27

    As for Epic destinies i have no idea yet i will figure something out. Will try everything out

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    Thanks heaps guys for the input you have given me. Also thanks for bringing up toughness, I will figure something out.

    If you can still help let me know please and how everyone is doing with their dronk build.

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    Dump Dex and Charisma. Ignore two weapon fighting feats since they do not work in animal form, grab natural fighting for the double strike. You want to be in to use wolf form abilities to bluff/trip/freeze enemies using your Wisdom mod. Also snowslide is wolf form, freezes enemies in a cone in front of you.

    Drop Maximize for Empower Heal, its 75 less spell power but for 15 less spell points.

  9. #9
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeggy1384 View Post
    Dump Dex and Charisma. Ignore two weapon fighting feats since they do not work in animal form, grab natural fighting for the double strike. You want to be in to use wolf form abilities to bluff/trip/freeze enemies using your Wisdom mod. Also snowslide is wolf form, freezes enemies in a cone in front of you.

    Drop Maximize for Empower Heal, its 75 less spell power but for 15 less spell points.
    Maybe you should read the build again hes not building a wolf hes building an elemental (caster).
    Dumping DEX on something with Evasion but bad base Reflex save is borderline ******** and defeats the point. The natural Fighting feat do nothing for a Elemental where as the TWF feat let he melee as well as standard Clonk. Not all Druids are wolf.

  10. #10
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    I have a 17druid/3monk similar to yours, goals were CC, healing, and low DPS with stunning fist.

    I used melee, wolf form to help power spells and get some DPS in.
    Stunning fist
    IC
    Toughness
    Power attack

    And caster:
    maximize
    Empower
    Empower heal
    quicken
    highten
    evocation focus
    Greater evocation focus
    epic evocation focus

    Some of the feets are experiments (highten and PA)
    I'm not sure i like it that much, party because I'm not very good at judging distances for wolf form attacks, partly because of the many bugs that are associated with druid's, partly because of the gear/enhancements/feet difficulties, and partly because I play the toon after playing a rogue/monk mix and feel like my DPS stinks.

    My biggest suggestion is to dump everything you have into evocation to power earthquake (for epic elite play) and basically ignore non-evocation stuff. My other suggestion is to realize that, due to the nature of epic elites and your spell list, your basically a one trick pony in EE.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Maybe you should read the build again hes not building a wolf hes building an elemental (caster).
    Dumping DEX on something with Evasion but bad base Reflex save is borderline ******** and defeats the point. The natural Fighting feat do nothing for a Elemental where as the TWF feat let he melee as well as standard Clonk. Not all Druids are wolf.
    Wolves can cast too, and it'd take less stats to go that route. Could also swap the natural fighting feats for empower and maximize for the spell damage.

    They wanted crowd control, wolf form provides the trip, freeze single target and freeze in a cone, in addition to the earthquake.

    They wanted healing but had no Empower Heal, which will work on both Regenerate and Mass Regenerate where the regular Empower would not. Hadn't bothered with the various Mass Vigors, but i think its same to assume Empower Heal would be the only metamagic to help those as well.

    Just because its a druid caster doesn't mean it has to be an elemental.

  12. #12
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeggy1384 View Post
    Wolves can cast too, and it'd take less stats to go that route. Could also swap the natural fighting feats for empower and maximize for the spell damage.

    They wanted crowd control, wolf form provides the trip, freeze single target and freeze in a cone, in addition to the earthquake.

    They wanted healing but had no Empower Heal, which will work on both Regenerate and Mass Regenerate where the regular Empower would not. Hadn't bothered with the various Mass Vigors, but i think its same to assume Empower Heal would be the only metamagic to help those as well.

    Just because its a druid caster doesn't mean it has to be an elemental.
    You really think something with 2.5 times grater spell cooldowns is a caster? Its very clear you did not read or understand his build you came in here and spouted off standard druid advice without trying to figure out what he was going for.

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    2.5 greater cooldown just Means he's not casting the same spell rapidly wich means no spamming spells like salt blast... but He still can cast a Earthquake then an SOV then a different spell then a different other spell just as quick just takes longer before he can cast the same spell over again.

    also the Freeze Cone spell CC, SOV CC and Minor Damage over Time, Earth Quake More CC, Wolf abilities Take Down CC, Stunning Fist CC, He could rotate through those spells then start up again. Just Because He hangs around in wolf form to help a little in the Dps department, he's still running around as A Druid CC caster.

    It seems people forget, just because you increase the cooldown of One spell doesn't mean you can't cast OTHER SPELLS in the meantime. and once more 2.5 cooldown does NOT mean takes Longer to cast spells, it means Longer Before casting the SAME SPELL again.

  14. #14
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    You really think something with 2.5 times grater spell cooldowns is a caster?
    Actually they make very good casters and fulfill everything he posted EXCEPT....

    Its very clear you did not read or understand his build you came in here and spouted off standard druid advice without trying to figure out what he was going for.
    Your right, the OP wanted an Elemental.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1
    My biggest suggestion is to dump everything you have into evocation to power earthquake (for epic elite play) and basically ignore non-evocation stuff. My other suggestion is to realize that, due to the nature of epic elites and your spell list, your basically a one trick pony in EE.
    Is what I have read about Elemental Druids. This may change as more updates happen but Druid spell lists are just too restricted ATM and the Enhancements don't compliment what they do have (i.e. AP cost/benefit). You do have more latitude for EN and EH though for spell choices/focus. And as Pilgrim1 mentions, they are still playable in EE.

  15. #15
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Actually they make very good casters and fulfill everything he posted EXCEPT....
    Very good is overstating it. It will work but its not the best druid build. A wolf who is playing more like a caster ends up giving up so much of its melee advantage that it ends up better in Elemental From getting the bonus that Elemental Form offer to casting. Further more unlike an Elemental trying to melee a wolf has the ugly 2.5x cooldown timers penalty. The capstone can help with this but then you cant splash to gain a few extra much needed feat for this kind of hybrid build.

    The Elemental Hybrid has an easier time do to the fact that it has no intrinsic penalty to its melee ability and unlike a wolf it can multiclass, to monk at least, easier because monk will make up for the lose of the caster capstone. The elemental forms provide +100% stacking Fortification and Stun immunity which is a bonus to both melee and casting play styles.

    So what you end up with is a question of is wolf form that penalizes casting but boosts melee better then a elemental form that boost casting and provides benefits that are desirable to both caster and melees. I would say that the build that has no penalties to both combat forms will make the better build.

    Finally The most interesting question for a hybrid, is whats better 80% off hand procs with 10% attack speed boost and ~10% Doublestrike, or the 30% attack speed boost with ~25% Doublestrike. With out real testing i think handwraps will still attack faster but it would actually be nice to be wrong on this for the sake of all the melee heavy multiclast wolfs out there.


    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Is what I have read about Elemental Druids. This may change as more updates happen but Druid spell lists are just too restricted ATM and the Enhancements don't compliment what they do have (i.e. AP cost/benefit). You do have more latitude for EN and EH though for spell choices/focus. And as Pilgrim1 mentions, they are still playable in EE.
    The spell list isn't really that bad for leveling you have the Firewall or Icestorm punch for mid levels and though 16-20 might be a bit of a pain but the ED's will kick in at 20 making up for any short comings the spell list has. The biggest issue with the druid class is its enhancements and more specifically its Prestige. The caster one is almost garbage and the melee one is bugged 6 ways to hell (last i look at least been 4-5 months since it tryed it).

  16. #16
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Grailhawk...

    In my experience the biggest problem caster druids have in epic quests are figuring out how to do manna efficient damage to mobs. You are a blaster class because of your spell list, you don't have wail or implosion, finger is the only necro spell on your list making it a foolish option to invest in, especially since your debuffing abilities are limited. Unlike blasting wizards you lack many strong mana efficient AoE damage types and compounded with the lack of meta magic reduction your spell points can not withstand heavy damaging. Sorcerers have ~900 more mana then you, metamagic reducers, and SLA on top of better enhancements. To put the nail in the coffin your energy bursts suck because there int/chr saves and you lack magic missle type spells to use Sharai effectively.

    You do have strong single target damage spells, especially when you boost them up with meta's but you still run into the issue of burning down some 3k hp (eh) or 6k (EE).

    Wolf form can provide 2 very useful things, first you can manage much better melee DPS then elemental form with minimal feet investment (your DPS is still very poor). Secondly critical hits provide you with 20 temporary spell points which if used effectively can extend your caster DPS significantly. As for the extended cooldown, your two most importaint spells are mass regenerate and earthquake, both of these spells's duration is longer then the extended cooldown in wolf form so there is very little harm. The spell that's most effected by the extended duration is heal. The lack of short cooldown heal and the fact that you can not use scrolls in wolf form does make it not the best form for main healing EE content.

  17. #17
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    Grailhawk...
    Not sure why your calling my out on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    In my experience the biggest problem caster druids have in epic quests are figuring out how to do manna efficient damage to mobs.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    You are a blaster class because of your spell list, you don't have wail or implosion, finger is the only necro spell on your list making it a foolish option to invest in, especially since your debuffing abilities are limited.
    Anyone trying to build a necro druid is a moron. That said you do have good debuffing as a water elemental -4 to Fort and Reflex from the Icy Mantle can be cast for 6 sp on any target or 20 in an AOE. Though its the only real debuff you have (the limited that I'm assuming you are talking about) it is effective when needed and very mana efficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    Unlike blasting wizards you lack many strong mana efficient AoE damage types and compounded with the lack of meta magic reduction your spell points can not withstand heavy damaging. Sorcerers have ~900 more mana then you, metamagic reducers, and SLA on top of better enhancements. To put the nail in the coffin your energy bursts suck because there int/chr saves and you lack magic missle type spells to use Sharai effectively.
    SLA's come from enhancements not spell list the spell list does lack in AOE burst damage spells and energy burst is only a useful twist for EH content where the hp are so low that the DC doesn't matter. Other spells can be used to make Shiradi effective such as Earthquake and Sleet Storm. You don't play a Druid like a Wizard or a Sorcerer at end game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    You do have strong single target damage spells, especially when you boost them up with meta's but you still run into the issue of burning down some 3k hp (eh) or 6k (EE).
    Only really needed for boss fights and the likes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    Wolf form can provide 2 very useful things, first you can manage much better melee DPS then elemental form with minimal feet investment (your DPS is still very poor).
    Minimal Feat investment I would say that you're wrong on that to be even remotely effective you are going to need the 3 natural fighting feat and if your not a monk splash using handwraps your going to want the shield feat as well. that's 3-5 feat before power attack and improved crit. That's more then TWF in elemental for.

    Further more wolf forms perceived advantage in melee maybe a trap if the base 30% attack speed boost and 18% double strike doesn't come out enough ahead of 80% off-hand attacks. Monk further complicates this with and added 10% attack speed boost. I don't know the answer to this if you have hard numbers on it i would like to see them.

    I know this is not how it works but if you assume that base gets 100 attacks in x seconds then TWF with Handwraps will get (100*1.1*1.8) 198 in x seconds vs wolf getting (100*1.3*1.18) 153.4. How DDO handles this i have no idea but that would seem to indicate that the TWF with handwraps gets 45 more attacks then a wolf with the natural fighting feat.

    That makes it look like the better option for cheep melee is handwraps with TWF but once again hard data on wolf attack speed would be nice.

    To make the wolfs melee work you really need to push the Double Strike and the base damage I don't think something that's more of a caster can do that right with out massive feat investment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    Secondly critical hits provide you with 20 temporary spell points which if used effectively can extend your caster DPS significantly.
    Sure wolfs have there nice tricks so do elements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    As for the extended cooldown, your two most importaint spells are mass regenerate and earthquake, both of these spells's duration is longer then the extended cooldown in wolf form so there is very little harm. The spell that's most effected by the extended duration is heal. The lack of short cooldown heal and the fact that you can not use scrolls in wolf form does make it not the best form for main healing EE content.
    And your forgetting one of the best damage spells a Druid has SoV 2.5 min cool down is horrible in wolf form but basically you just made my point that if your playing a wolf like a caster you doing it wrong. Yes wolfs cast it would be dumb of them not to. But if your looking for something that castes then melees the elemental will be better.
    Last edited by Grailhawk; 02-26-2013 at 05:16 PM.

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