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  1. #1
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Default What is the point to the Underdark?

    Sorry if I don't know much of the lore or if this question has been asked before. But per the title: why do we even have the Underdark? A wilderness area full of 1 single quest. Is the Underdark just there for lore? What is the point of going there?

    I didn't mind when the expansion first came out, but now that I have TR'd a few times/characters I find myself annoyed more than excited every time I have to make my way from the Kings Forest to the Drow City of Sschindylryn.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  2. #2
    Community Member Tocawe's Avatar
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    My thought is that they wanted to include underdark because of it's popularity among the Forgoten Realms fanboys.

    And yes, it would be much more pleasant if you got the portal to Sschindylryn opened once you flagged for the quests there.
    Last edited by Tocawe; 02-18-2013 at 07:25 PM.

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    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tocawe View Post
    My thought is that they wanted to include underdark because of it's popularity among the Forgoten Realms fanboys.

    And yes, it would be much more pleasant if you got the portal to Sschindylryn opened once you flagged for the quests there.
    Its sad that most of FR fanboys don't know that Underdark and drow are originally from Greyhawk...
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  4. #4
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Its sad that most of FR fanboys don't know that Underdark and drow are originally from Greyhawk...
    More like star trek. Leme see....pointy ear elves that live longer than humans, and split off from their bretherens agenda, became evil, and were kicked out/encouraged to leave, and moved somewhere else vowing to take revenge on their ancestors when the time was right? Yeap.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Its sad that most of FR fanboys don't know that Underdark and drow are originally from Greyhawk...
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    More like star trek. Leme see....pointy ear elves that live longer than humans, and split off from their bretherens agenda, became evil, and were kicked out/encouraged to leave, and moved somewhere else vowing to take revenge on their ancestors when the time was right? Yeap.
    The earliest preserved descriptions of elves comes from Norse mythology. In Old Norse they are called álfar (nominative singular álfr). In Norse Mythology, the Elves are believed to inhabit Alfheim or Yggdrasil of the World tree. Alternatively, the "dark elves" are said to inhabit Svartalfheim.

    taken right from wikipedia kids.

    Not to mention if one actually studies the lore surrounding elves, one might be aware that in the real world, if such beings where to exist, could be the source of and in fact do seem in language and history to be closely linked with concepts like angels, the worship of ancestors, animism and much more. If one gives any pondering to the idea that even in myth and legend lay a kernal of truth, one might truly wonder if what we call elves or angels etc might actually indeed be a human like species possibly from an alternate time or dimension. Stories of going beyond this worlds veil under hollow hills resonate through numerous cultures folk lore.

    So really kids both your posts are a wee bit too wrapped up in modern pop culture.

    One might argue in fact chai, that vulcans where perhaps made the way they where to resemble space elves. After all the original trek is filled with alien beings with gawd like powers who claim to be various beings from earths myths. When you have beings claiming to be apollo for example is it so hard to stretch the imagination and see vulcans as based upon folk lore and myth as well?

  6. #6
    Community Member Ganolyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    The earliest preserved descriptions of elves comes from Norse mythology. In Old Norse they are called álfar (nominative singular álfr). In Norse Mythology, the Elves are believed to inhabit Alfheim or Yggdrasil of the World tree. Alternatively, the "dark elves" are said to inhabit Svartalfheim.

    taken right from wikipedia kids.

    Not to mention if one actually studies the lore surrounding elves, one might be aware that in the real world, if such beings where to exist, could be the source of and in fact do seem in language and history to be closely linked with concepts like angels, the worship of ancestors, animism and much more. If one gives any pondering to the idea that even in myth and legend lay a kernal of truth, one might truly wonder if what we call elves or angels etc might actually indeed be a human like species possibly from an alternate time or dimension. Stories of going beyond this worlds veil under hollow hills resonate through numerous cultures folk lore.

    So really kids both your posts are a wee bit too wrapped up in modern pop culture.

    One might argue in fact chai, that vulcans where perhaps made the way they where to resemble space elves. After all the original trek is filled with alien beings with gawd like powers who claim to be various beings from earths myths. When you have beings claiming to be apollo for example is it so hard to stretch the imagination and see vulcans as based upon folk lore and myth as well?



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  7. #7
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    The earliest preserved descriptions of elves comes from Norse mythology. In Old Norse they are called álfar (nominative singular álfr). In Norse Mythology, the Elves are believed to inhabit Alfheim or Yggdrasil of the World tree. Alternatively, the "dark elves" are said to inhabit Svartalfheim.

    taken right from wikipedia kids.

    Not to mention if one actually studies the lore surrounding elves, one might be aware that in the real world, if such beings where to exist, could be the source of and in fact do seem in language and history to be closely linked with concepts like angels, the worship of ancestors, animism and much more. If one gives any pondering to the idea that even in myth and legend lay a kernal of truth, one might truly wonder if what we call elves or angels etc might actually indeed be a human like species possibly from an alternate time or dimension. Stories of going beyond this worlds veil under hollow hills resonate through numerous cultures folk lore.

    So really kids both your posts are a wee bit too wrapped up in modern pop culture.

    One might argue in fact chai, that vulcans where perhaps made the way they where to resemble space elves. After all the original trek is filled with alien beings with gawd like powers who claim to be various beings from earths myths. When you have beings claiming to be apollo for example is it so hard to stretch the imagination and see vulcans as based upon folk lore and myth as well?
    Wikipedia, the undeniable proof on the internet.

    I was referring to storyline, not the race themselves. This entire "they became evil so were kicked out of their original society, and then found a new home to practive their evil ways in while vowing revenge on their ancestors" plot, is old as the hills. And them hills be old son.

    It didnt stop at vulcans for star trek.

    Humans - yeap the POV race.
    Vulcans - space elves
    Romulans - space drow
    Klingons - space orcs
    Ferrengi - space halflings
    Spock - space half elf
    Cardassians - space lizard men

    If you search through those myths you bring up in wikipedia, you will find the SAME PLOT exists - where these mythical pointy eared beings kicked their evil bretheren out of their wonderous city and they went....you guessed it.....underground, in order to continue to foster their evil society and.....yeap....vowed revenge on their surface dwelling counterparts. Wiki also references them being akin to angels - how many modern relogions did that plot occur in. - wont go further than that because I know they dont want us discussing that topic on the forums - but needless to say, you will find that plot in alot of human mythos.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #8
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tocawe View Post
    And yes, it would be much more pleasant if you got the portal to Sschindylryn opened once you flagged for the quests there.
    Let me clear up your and the OP's confusion.

    The flagging quests for Sschindylryn include:

    1) The King's Forest (to get to 2, 3, 4)
    2) Impossible Demands
    3) The Unquiet Graves
    4) The Lost Thread
    5) The Battle for Eveningstar
    6) The Underdark (travel to the portal to Sschindylryn)

    You must do all 6. If you would prefer to jump to UBER VET immediately, realize that such a position is RELATIVE and since pretty much ALL but six of your fellow players would want the same, there is no value in requesting it.

  9. #9
    Community Member Inferno346's Avatar
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    While on the subject of FR not doing things first, C. S. Lewis had an interesting vision of the Underdark in 1943:
    "Pictures come back in a chaotic, disjointed fashion. There was a long gallery open to the fire-pit on one side and a terrible place where clouds of steam went up, for ever and ever. Doubtless one of the many torrents that roared in the neighbourhood here fell into the depth of the fire. Beyond that were great halls still dimly illuminated and full of unknown mineral wealth that sparkled and danced in the light and mocked his eyes as if he were exploring a hall of mirrors by the help of a pocket torch. It seemed to him also, though this may have been delirium, that he came through a vast cathedral space which was more like the work of art than that of Nature, with two great thrones at one end and chairs on either hand too large for human occupants. If the things were real, he never found any explanation of them. There was a dark tunnel in which a wind from Heaven knows where was blowing and drove sand in his face. There was also a place where he himself walked in darkness and looked down through fathom below fathom of shafts and natural arches and winding gulfs on to a smooth floor lit with a cold green light. And as he stood and looked it seemed to him that four of the great earth-beetles, dwarfed by distance to the size of gnats, and crawling two by two, came slowly into sight. And they were drawing behind them a flat car, and on the car, upright, unshaken, stood a mantled form, huge and still and slender. And driving its strange team it passed on with insufferable majesty and went out of sight. Assuredly the inside of this world was not for man. But it was for something. And it appeared to Ransom that there might, if a man could find it, be some way to renew the old Pagan practice of propitiating the local gods of unknown places in such fashion that it was no offence to God Himself but only a prudent and courteous apology for trespass. That thing, that swathed form in its chariot, was no doubt his fellow creature. It did not follow that they were equals or had an equal right in the underland. A long time after this came the drumming - the boom-ba-ba-ba-boom-boom out of pitch darkness, distant at first, then all around him, then dying away after endless prolongation of echoes in the black labyrinth. Then came the fountain of cold light - a column, as of water, shining with some radiance of its own, and pulsating, and never any nearer however long he travelled and at last suddenly eclipsed. He did not find what it was."

    Clark Ashton Smith did something similar in 1933.

    Obviously there are plenty of dark caverns in myths and literature before this, but I find these interesting.
    Thelanis: Takhysys, Tenauch, Vitriolus, Kalav, Leprous

  10. #10
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Let me clear up your and the OP's confusion.
    I find the Underdark requirement annoying and rather pointless.

    Also in order to get to FR you need the LOD chain and the Rift which adds 4 more required quests to your list of things that must be done.

    I understand that people enjoy the Underdark. People are allowed to like things.



    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    If you would prefer to jump to UBER VET immediately, realize that such a position is RELATIVE and since pretty much ALL but six of your fellow players would want the same, there is no value in requesting it.
    Couple things:

    Where in my post do I say I am uber? Was it the part about TRing? I am as far from uber as the earth is to mars.

    This isn't a request. It is a question. These things lead to discussion about why things are the way they are. I didn't follow the reasoning for a required run into a wilderness just to get to another wilderness. Once I reach the Drow City, I never go back to the Underdark. Some other people enjoy the zone.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  11. #11
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    II didn't follow the reasoning for a required run into a wilderness just to get to another wilderness.
    First, the Underdark can be entered from the Eveningstar cave, you don't have to run through the King's Forest (though teleporting to the PDK outpost and entering from there will put you very close to the Sschindylryn portal.)

    Second, I think it's extremely amusing that people seem to think that adventure areas are ONLY for getting to quests. Umm, no. Adventure areas are entertainment in and of themselves, and are often better entertainment than the static linear grindfests that are defined as "quests."

    The most fun I had after the release of MotU was in the Underdark, closely followed by the King's Forest. They were a blast (though they've lost their sparkle due to running them dozens to hundreds of times on each of about 10 different characters). Still, the adventure areas are the only place I actually get XP anymore, since I do not flit about for extended periods of time in destinies that do me no good.

    So, to me, the MAIN game is adventure areas and challenges. The quests are just tacked on boring grind.

  12. #12
    Community Member sdrocky's Avatar
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    So some lucky DEV can do Umberhulks for us.

  13. #13
    Community Member silence383's Avatar
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    It is simply going to be a launching point for future things. When they will get to that is yet to be seen. Much like shavrath you have three destinations to go to only one works. Its not done. That is a simple as It can be said. Much like new content in fr..the forest will expand when they get around to it..much like many forests..and other things..leaving the door open for future expansions.
    It reminds me about years ago when you had to do harbor quests to get into the city. They were still kinda working on the city so it was something to slow you down till they came out with new stuff. Of course this is only my opinion but do you release a car that is 2013 back in 2006? You leave your options open to keep you going while they build new things

    And how long did it take for epic gianthold? It was done long ago but could not be implemented. Now there are epic levels and now epic gianthold is here.
    Last edited by silence383; 02-21-2013 at 02:46 AM.
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    Community Member Kilbar's Avatar
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    One major advantage to the Underdark is that by utilizing the tunnel systems and keeping distances vague, you can rather easily justify setting new content anywhere in the realms. Want to set something in Icewind Dale? Drow Caravan. Want to visit the Shou Lung Empire? Drow Diplomatic Mission. Want to explore the hidden depths of the Jungles of Chult? Drow Research Expedition. Want to experience the ancient lands of Mulhorand? Drow Reconnaissance Party. In every case your character and/or party are mercenary hirelings sent as additional trouble shooters or follow-up investigators in case the initial expedition never reported back in. Tired of everything being Drow-related? Make the Duergar or Svirfneblin (Deep Gnomes) the quest-givers. People have been agitating for years to make gnomes a playable race, so why not use the Svirfneblin of the Forgotten Realms Underdark to fill that slot?

  15. #15
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Maybe the Underdark is where they decided to hide all our missing outfits...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  16. #16
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I'd love to see more quests added to the Underdark; there are enough jumping-off points there for good fun.
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  17. #17
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    uses of underdark:

    - give headache (til u get the goggles, once u get em... the vision is... incredible, im not a lore fan, in fact i don't care about lore but everylife when i reach there and put my goggles on, the overhelming feeling strikes again, great job must say)
    - show players that run & smash it's not the only things you can do in wilderness, getting lost is one of them
    - s/r/e, i know, must be mad to do s/r/e at those lvl, but ppl do, i'm not the only one who plays ddo so other players should have the option to choose(some players are bad using wiki or reading quest objectives, so use to lvl with s/r/e, hey if they have fun...)
    -some hidden loot, i mean... there's something, i know it, dunno what or where, must say (why should be there something? well, other wilderness have interesting items and are quite easier to get, some are even farmed)
    -transition, i mean... you have done 1 quest (aka beyond the rift) to reach FR from eberron, now you are in eberron and wanna go to the drow city...where should it be? next door to eveningstar? only a wilderness between both cities? the city is inside the underdark, so at least you should try to find the city, not simply step in underdark and hey! here's the signal "welcome to schy...schi...sssshi...drow town"

    and the last and for me, the most important thing, stuff like that (wilderness where there's "nothing" to do, just take a round) are what make ddo a rpg, and not a mm-arcade such nwn,wow, etc

    yes, underdark is prolly the best place to RP, i don't do it(prefer pnp sorry) but players shuld have the option to choose
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  18. #18
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    My guess is that the Underdark is only currently unpopulated. Seems like forward planning on the Dev's part. It gives them a spot to plug in the entrances to a future updates quests. (Yuan-Ti chain, anyone?)

  19. #19
    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    Its very likely this zone will be a launching point for upcoming content in the works. Probably over a dozen storylines that can be tied into this region for future expansion packs.

  20. #20
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    Sorry if I don't know much of the lore or if this question has been asked before. But per the title: why do we even have the Underdark? A wilderness area full of 1 single quest. Is the Underdark just there for lore? What is the point of going there?

    I didn't mind when the expansion first came out, but now that I have TR'd a few times/characters I find myself annoyed more than excited every time I have to make my way from the Kings Forest to the Drow City of Sschindylryn.
    My guess;

    Cannot deal with a Drow invasion of FR, Lloth, or Sschindylryn without the Underdark.

    Rather have Underdark there then not to save the minute or less it takes to run to the entrance to the City of Portals.


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