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  1. #101
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Lockboxes are basically gambling. Similar to DDO's + loot potions. Different mechanism - it's really the same chocolate covered turd...
    Negative. DDO currently doesn't have anything like lockboxes. However, Lotro DOES. Only you can also pull keys as well besides buying them out of the store.

    DDO's closest thing to lockboxes are direct store items as loot in your name. Nothing extra to buy, and loot gems do not effect your chance of store items at all.

    As far as I can remember... DDO is also the only one with breakables dropping stuff as well.

    Also expect PW/Cryptic to put "special" lootboxes/grab bags in the store being the only way to get certain cosmetics.

  2. #102
    Community Member apaurin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunan View Post
    Well it has just been confirmed at their forums, lock boxes will be in the game.
    In NWO random loot drops from each mob you kill. Rarely this loot will be in the form of a lock box.
    A lock box contains a very special loot drop, some of which has a small chance to drop the top end items in the game. In CO and STO they had a tiny chance to contain the top end ships and vehicles which were only sold in the cash store.

    Now the catch: lock boxes can only be opened by buying a key that is sold in the cash shop, the key being a one time use item. Note, you do not know what is in the box until it is opened. I believe the keys sell for around $2 each.
    They implemented this kind of **** in Vanguard Saga too since it went F2P.. But although keys are cash shop only, they are tradable so you can at least get them of AH. Still, I'm not a big fan of it.
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  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Negative. DDO currently doesn't have anything like lockboxes.
    Baloney, its the same thing. Look at it this way. Turbine is asking you buy a gem for a chance for better loot. Cryptic is asking you to buy a key for a chance for better loot. Both are forms of gambling. What neither company divulges of course are the odds of actually getting something good. If they did divulge the odds, very few would ever bother. In either case, gems or lockboxes, the house, or in this case the MMO company, have complete advantage. The other hassle with lockboxes though is it messes with inventory space. As far as pay 2 win goes, as much as I'd love to label either Turbine or Cryptic for the gambling aspect alone I can't rightfully do it, because the winnings are so ridiculously minute in either case. Loot gems & lock boxes serve no real purpose in either game in my opinion, and I'm readily looking forward to the US government to get off their asses and crack down on mmo companies on this form of gambling.

    I will say that lootboxes and lockboxes are an overly avid form of blatant gambling, in games where young children do play. Its wrong on so many levels but its profitable - so they will not stop or curtail the practices until affected gorvernments begin to crack down and insist on it.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 02-16-2013 at 05:21 PM.


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  4. #104
    Community Member Zorth's Avatar
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    Default The ability to kick town barrels is all that is different.

    I am not impressed.

    Mounts do not work unless used for fast travel (get them off the screen they will just cause lag imo, Imagine the whole server with spider mounts. big deal , yawn, Those that spend 200 bucks look more like newbs, I will not spend that much to look like a wannabe Drow/Dark Elf that did not earn it, and the fact that it is bought, rather than earned is laughable until my sides hurt!

    Fast travel though is nice if we have a mount that is earned instead of paid for.
    Last edited by Zorth; 02-16-2013 at 05:19 PM.
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  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorth View Post
    I will not spend that much to look like a wannabe Drow/Dark Elf that did not earn it, and the fact that it is bought, rather than earned is laughable until my sides hurt!
    Ohhh you mean like the way you can buy +3 and +4 tomes in the DDO Store? Please.


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  6. #106
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    I'm readily looking forward to the US government to get off their asses and crack down on mmo companies on this form of gambling.

    I will say that lootboxes and lockboxes are an overly avid form of blatant gambling,

    Wow. Loot gems = gambling now? And the govt should 'crack down' on them? You may have just broken the Chaimeter.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Wow. Loot gems = gambling now? And the govt should 'crack down' on them? You may have just broken the Chaimeter.
    I understand what you're saying. Neither really bother me because I do not gamble on such items. However, I believe if lockboxes go, so do other forms of MMO gambling, and loot gems are a form of income that includes the element of gambling. Lockboxes still bother me though, because its more obnoxious. I think we agree here, at least on principle


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  8. #108
    Community Member Zorth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Ohhh you mean like the way you can buy +3 and +4 tomes in the DDO Store? Please.
    My thumb is black and blue: needs a Doctor to drain the pain, because I hit it, instead of the nail. But you Hit the nail on the head LeslieWest.
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  9. #109
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Baloney, its the same thing.
    *ponders for longer trying to think of anything close* No.. I still have to disagree. Even the closest example I can think of is so limited it puts it into a different category due to the players.

    Show me where you have to buy a loot gem in order to get something in your average quest. You can't, can you. The best I can come up with is a very select few quests on the highest difficulty settings and then use the gems to get to the highest possible loot table IF you are lucky.
    Loot boxes can show up anywhere. Loot boxes are a one shot also. Gems are time period based.
    DDO has no boxes no keys. LOTRO has boxes in game, but also keys in game as well as store. NWO, well you know what they'll do. I don't. I left CO just after they put a way to earn in game points, because originally the only way to get points was to use their store, and later the Steam Wallet.
    Oh, that reminds me, side question. Cryptic integrated itself with Steam such to where you could buy points via the Steam Wallet. Do you know if that is still possible with PW so fully integrated now? Will it be a possibility for NWO?


    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    I will say that lootboxes and lockboxes are an overly avid form of blatant gambling, in games where young children do play.
    I don't know about overly, but it is deff gambling.
    And yes, young children do play. It is a game of "chance." Now I want you to go through all the games you can think of. Any game that has "cards" or "dice" you keep on that list. All of those game have "chance" as part of it now don't they? Every card pull, ever dice roll is a gamble that you hope pays off. Trick is, most people's moral compass doesn't go screwy until you deal with some form of currency that has real life use. Typically this is monies of some form.
    In my opinion, and I say this weakly as I do not have children, this is one of the reason why parental oversight/guidance is needed with kids playing video games, esp online ones.

  10. #110
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Wow. Loot gems = gambling now? And the govt should 'crack down' on them? You may have just broken the Chaimeter.
    No... actually I would agree that loot gems are a form of gambling. (This is different from the previous post where I disagree that DDO has lootbox. It would be like comparing Black Jack to Pick 5. Both are gambling, but the mechanism is completely different.)

    Gems pry upon a person's desire for better loot out of a chest/any chest. If I buy this/use this, I'll get better loot. But the gamble is that there is no promise that the loot will actually be better. There is no guarantee because the tables are random. So they play on people's subconscious by making them relatively cheep also. Nickle here, dime there...

    I tend to also look at it like a cheeseburger at some place I've never been at. Is that $1 for cheese worth it? If they use a good quality flavored cheese it could add so much to it (even if it costs them pennies for that slice) But... a slice of processed, individually wrapped... not so much. (yeah, you could ask them what sort of cheese it is, but then you aren't gambling any more. )

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    In my opinion, and I say this weakly as I do not have children, this is one of the reason why parental oversight/guidance is needed with kids playing video games, esp online ones.
    Ahhh we end in agreement. Hell yes.

    We differ slightly in the lockbox/loot gem debate, but not nearly as much as I originally thought.


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  12. #112
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    I'm readily looking forward to the US government to get off their asses and crack down on mmo companies on this form of gambling.
    Not gonna happen.

    I don't think they know enough abot MMOs, and even if they do, they realize MMO companies would stop being US companies and start to operate somewhere else (which could lead to lost taxes).

  13. #113
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Oh pfft. Yes lockboxes are probably 'gambling'. Ditto loot gems.

    Re: Kids. Frankly, if you want to turn kids off gambling for life, much better for them to realize the appalling odds of getting something good via DDO's level 31 loot table than the almost 50/50 shot of a win via a roulette wheel.

    Next point, gambling isn't universally acknowledged as some sort of evil corruptor that must be banned in all its forms.

    Plenty of people make a very reasonable living through gambling - mostly Texas Hold 'Em and/or Horse Racing (where there is a skill component in addition to the chance - thereby not violating some (state-based) US laws in the case of the former), but gambling also brings a lot of enjoyment to others sheerly through entertainment value (In ddo form that means opening a chest with a chance of +4 to +5 upgrade tome, instead of the 0 buzz of opening a chest you know must contain literally nothing useful beyond potentially something vendorable.).

    I also idly wonder if the skill component of needing to complete quests to reach a chest / killing enough mobs to make a lockbox drop would also avoid some states' gambling restriction laws.

    Gambling certainly has dangerous forms like pokies machines that can ruin addicts' lives, but it's a broad Church that includes extraordinarily harmless things like Two-Up, a game of which there is not a single recorded case of a gambler becoming addicted to (<-- genuinely interesting Australian Culture tidbit if you want to wiki Two-Up!).

    My point is mostly that categorically damning gambling is controversial, and those of us that feel obliged to defend it creates a politically charged debate - and this thread, or even forum generally probably isn't the place for it.

    I personally won't be buying keys to lockboxes, since odds on they're a terrible bet.
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  14. #114
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    There are plans regarding building multiple group raids into the game.
    Hated that in Dark Age of Camelot.

  15. #115
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Gave the beta a shot this weekend.

    Nope.

    Plays like a console game, complete with the 12 year olds.
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