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  1. #41
    Community Member der_kluge's Avatar
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    It doesn't sound like, or look like anything I would be interested in playing.

    For all of Turbines foibles, DDO is still the best MMO on the market, IMHO.
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  2. #42
    The Hatchery GeneralDiomedes's Avatar
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    dupe.
    Last edited by GeneralDiomedes; 02-15-2013 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Duplicate

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyria View Post
    They were initially developed by "CoX-era Cryptic", yes. However, they kept insisting that there were lots of things that were "impossible to do with this code-base". Yet when a bunch of those devs left (including Jack), somehow the remaining devs found that it WAS quite possible to do a lot of those things. The Paragon Studies era of CoX was FAR superior.
    Agreed! To be clear though, those developers (and Jack) didn't leave Cryptic, they sold CoX to Paragon Studios along with the remaining developers.

    I do think that the game was better cared for and much improved when Cyrytic was out of the picture. But It doesn't diminish the fact the from the start CoX was a good game by Cryptic, it just got better later under new management.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyria View Post
    The "CO-era Cryptic" has been nothing but garbage. CO was a badly-designed, poorly-implemented game that flopped. STO was a badly-designed, poorly-implemented game that flopped. I see the same thing happening to NWO.
    Couldn't agree more. I was in Alpha/Beta for both CO and STO, and neither hold a candle to CoX or DDO.

  4. #44
    Community Member Azithoth's Avatar
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    at the moment, everything fails expectations.... lol

  5. #45
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Watered down D&D theme run of the mill game, as expected. The opposite of what we like in DDO. WB take note.
    Praise the Dark Six and pass the heals to pure melees.
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  6. #46
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    Watered down D&D theme run of the mill game, as expected. The opposite of what we like in DDO. WB take note.
    I agree. I would have to place DDO in the catagory of class A MMOs but from what I have read, seen and heard is being projected NWO may be at best a class C MMO.
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  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakos View Post
    Agreed! To be clear though, those developers (and Jack) didn't leave Cryptic, they sold CoX to Paragon Studios along with the remaining developers.

    I do think that the game was better cared for and much improved when Cyrytic was out of the picture. But It doesn't diminish the fact the from the start CoX was a good game by Cryptic, it just got better later under new management.


    Couldn't agree more. I was in Alpha/Beta for both CO and STO, and neither hold a candle to CoX or DDO.
    Studios (and their heads) like to think their dev staff is interchangeable.

    The difference between the pre-Paragon Studios Cryptic and post is just another demonstration that this is not the case.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Lyria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakos View Post
    Agreed! To be clear though, those developers (and Jack) didn't leave Cryptic, they sold CoX to Paragon Studios along with the remaining developers.

    I do think that the game was better cared for and much improved when Cyrytic was out of the picture. But It doesn't diminish the fact the from the start CoX was a good game by Cryptic, it just got better later under new management.
    Yeah, the question becomes then, "Was it good because of the original (Jack-led) devs, or because of the influence of the devs who would become Paragon Studies?" CoX originally was a pretty good game. It had flaws, obviously, but overall not bad, despite Jack. Once he and his flunkies left, the game just TOOK OFF as far as quality. Better mechanics, better missions/enemies, new powersets, etc. I'm still sad it closed down. *glares at NCSoft*

    Couldn't agree more. I was in Alpha/Beta for both CO and STO, and neither hold a candle to CoX or DDO.
    Yeah, I was in the beta for both, and picked up a cheapie copy of CO when it was on sale for $10 and played for a month, to see if it'd gotten any better. It was trash. And STO was just flat-out terrible.

    DDO, imo, is an awesome game. Could it use some improvement? Of course. But it's still great, and worth my money.

  9. #49
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyria View Post
    The "CO-era Cryptic" has been nothing but garbage. CO was a badly-designed, poorly-implemented game that flopped. STO was a badly-designed, poorly-implemented game that flopped. I see the same thing happening to NWO.
    Actually, CO pre day one nerf was pretty damn fun. Then either Bill or Jack had it neutered on released which screwed it over until a new producer got put in place to try to do damage control finally. A few months before PW came into play, CO was fun again and I was having a blast over there.
    But from what I understand there is still nothing good for endgame. All it is is level this character. Now level a new one all over again. Ooops, do the same again....

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyria View Post
    "Was it good because of the original (Jack-led) devs, or because of the influence of the devs who would become Paragon Studies?"
    These are (were) the same people.
    The only difference was less Jack.

    The flip-side is, Jack E has demonstrated he really knows how to get money out of a game.
    That's a non-trivial skill.
    Now to partner that with a strong game designer ...
    Last edited by SableShadow; 02-15-2013 at 03:17 PM.
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  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyria View Post
    Yeah, I was in the beta for both, and picked up a cheapie copy of CO when it was on sale for $10 and played for a month, to see if it'd gotten any better. It was trash. And STO was just flat-out terrible.

    DDO, imo, is an awesome game. Could it use some improvement? Of course. But it's still great, and worth my money.
    You got lucky, I fell for the $200 lifetime membership for the beta testers on CO. I've played it maybe 5 times since.

  12. #52
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    While I know that the publishing house has great push on that, do you know if the writers themselves actually wanted to jump to different worlds?

    I mean, the only ones that seemed able to jump worlds were the ones writing for both World A and Ravenloft. (characters got transported to->from afterall)
    When some were told they would not be jumping worlds they created their own universe unassociated with D&D in order to write in.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #53
    Community Member RazorrX's Avatar
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    First you need to understand the history of the NW game that Cryptic is building. The first 'incarnation' was supposed to be NOT an MMO but a CoOperative Online game. IE really bare bones game that had the foundry and pregenerated classes, etc. This was the directive from ATARI as I understand it. The game was nearing release when PWE purchased Cryptic from Atari and decided to NOT go with that train wreck but to make it a full on MMO. (Yes it will most likely end up like all of PWE games as a P2W game, but for now it is *mostly* cootie free). That said, what they have been doing is expanding on systems, etc. NOT remaking the core, thus we still have the pregenerated classes.

    I am not happy about the class/builds that they are going with (and have been quite verbal about it on NW site). However, in a podcast with the devs they did say that they wanted to give a more 'core' option and allow deeper customization. The first step they mentioned was allowing the existing builds have more choice in abilities. I am willing to wait and see what they do about that.

    To me, the combat is actually quite fun. Leveling was way to easy in the beta though, and needs to be kicked up a few notches.

    Where NW shines is the Foundry. User Generated content was quite good in the beta and they are working on even better tools for release and post release. They have stated that they believe they will be able to actually host Persistant Worlds - so you *could* create greyhawk if you were so inclined one day. Cut scene editor is already in the making, etc. The foundry is really an awesome concept and the NW version is way better than the STO one.

    The forgotten realms are pretty well done in NW as well. The backgrounds, scenes, npcs, etc. all feel right.

    As far as Raids go - we have no information on this except to say that they have stated that "end game will NOT be just PVP." Raids are a possibility, but were not in the beta.

    So is it the game to pull people away from DDO? I doubt it. DDO will always attract a certain group of players who love it for what it is. Does NW have a lot to offer someone? Certainly. It just needs to grow into the game that it CAN be.
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  14. #54
    Community Member Lyria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Actually, CO pre day one nerf was pretty damn fun. Then either Bill or Jack had it neutered on released which screwed it over until a new producer got put in place to try to do damage control finally. A few months before PW came into play, CO was fun again and I was having a blast over there.
    But from what I understand there is still nothing good for endgame. All it is is level this character. Now level a new one all over again. Ooops, do the same again....
    Pre-exp-nerf you could level up pretty easily, yeah. You didn't HAVE to do every dreg of content in order to level. The exp (and money) nerf was just stupid beyond belief.

    The thing I disliked the most about the game was that the various powers weren't balanced at all. Certain ones were VASTLY superior, to the point that there was no reason to take one vs the superior one (electrocute vs force blast, for instance -- I think those were the names, the two must-have-charge powers from those two). And pets were a compete joke, other than the zombies.

    Plus the fact that they had the fricking Champions Universe license, and just FAILED at it! Bleh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakos View Post
    You got lucky, I fell for the $200 lifetime membership for the beta testers on CO. I've played it maybe 5 times since.
    I've never bought a lifetime sub to any game. In retrospect, I wish I'd bought one for DDO.

  15. #55
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    meh, it's not for everyone for sure
    and seeing how it'll be f2p, it really doesn't hurt to hop on and mess around with foundry stuff every now and then

    as for raids... there are people asking for HUGE raids that consists of over 30 ppl
    though most people say it should limited to 10
    ~shrug~

    and yes, if DDO is able to support custom contents, it will be extremely hard to bring down from my list of top MMOs
    sadly DDO isn't built nor designed for it
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  16. #56
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyria View Post
    Pre-exp-nerf you could level up pretty easily, yeah. You didn't HAVE to do every dreg of content in order to level. The exp (and money) nerf was just stupid beyond belief.

    The thing I disliked the most about the game was that the various powers weren't balanced at all. Certain ones were VASTLY superior, to the point that there was no reason to take one vs the superior one (electrocute vs force blast, for instance -- I think those were the names, the two must-have-charge powers from those two). And pets were a compete joke, other than the zombies.

    Plus the fact that they had the fricking Champions Universe license, and just FAILED at it! Bleh!

    I've never bought a lifetime sub to any game. In retrospect, I wish I'd bought one for DDO.
    Yeah, I never understood any logic to that nerf at all.

    And no, they didn't balance at all, and when they nerfed to balance things, holy crud, did their nerfing ever make Turbine look like the super hot model that was willing to also date you. But near the end of my time there they actually did some balancing and made it a lot of fun again. The biggest issue is that once you learned a few power sets, you've played them all.

    Pets actually became darn fun. Individual control, several unique ones all at once. I had a pet character which his own army. Not much ever surived more than a few seconds. It took legendaries and bosses to be a pain for him.

    I only looked at the champions table top book once so I know very little other than to try to impilment such would have been an undertaking much greater than what they ended up doing.

    DDO never has sold lifer status else I would have picked that up in a heartbeat.

  17. #57
    Community Member Lyria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Yeah, I never understood any logic to that nerf at all.

    And no, they didn't balance at all, and when they nerfed to balance things, holy crud, did their nerfing ever make Turbine look like the super hot model that was willing to also date you. But near the end of my time there they actually did some balancing and made it a lot of fun again. The biggest issue is that once you learned a few power sets, you've played them all.

    Pets actually became darn fun. Individual control, several unique ones all at once. I had a pet character which his own army. Not much ever surived more than a few seconds. It took legendaries and bosses to be a pain for him.
    Really? I guess they must have fixed them after I gave up playing. The only pets that were even remotely worthwhile when I was playing were the zombies. The sigils were alright, but immobile. The wolves were a joke. So were the demon/winter wolf pentagram summons.

    I only looked at the champions table top book once so I know very little other than to try to impilment such would have been an undertaking much greater than what they ended up doing.
    Making a Hero System MMO would be a MASSIVE undertaking, to be sure. You'd have to pregenerate all the powers you'd let people take (or give them a fixed number of advantages they can apply from a list). Letting people just free-form it would be ridiculous.

    DDO never has sold lifer status else I would have picked that up in a heartbeat.
    Huh, I thought they did. I must have been thinking of LotRO.

  18. #58
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyria View Post
    Really? I guess they must have fixed them after I gave up playing. The only pets that were even remotely worthwhile when I was playing were the zombies. The sigils were alright, but immobile. The wolves were a joke. So were the demon/winter wolf pentagram summons.

    Huh, I thought they did. I must have been thinking of LotRO.
    Save the points to make all pets not be bound by the sigil, be able to play free forform. Have a blast. I quit the game for about... 1.. 1.3 years after launch because of how **** tastic they turned it. If I didn't agree with PW policies I'd still be there playing (bought liferstatus)
    And while zombies were good, I found shadows to be king. Esp as each of their attacks, you could enhance them so that a % of that damage always was giving you healing.

    And yeap. Lotro has sold lifer status a few times. I picked up lifer there when Moria got released.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorrX View Post
    Where NW shines is the Foundry. User Generated content was quite good in the beta and they are working on even better tools for release and post release. They have stated that they believe they will be able to actually host Persistant Worlds - so you *could* create greyhawk if you were so inclined one day. Cut scene editor is already in the making, etc. The foundry is really an awesome concept and the NW version is way better than the STO one..
    Having expereinced a player made content system in an MMO environment in the past with CoH, I am not very excited about this feature at all. What we got was thousands upon thousands of exploit missions with a tiny number of well made missions sprinkled in. I lost interest in it within a week and went back to playing the main game exclusively. Unfortunately, so many people were busy making and running exploit missions in the mission designer, that there were much fewer people to group with in the main game. Overall, I felt that it hurt the game more than it helped it.

  20. #60
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tshober View Post
    Having expereinced a player made content system in an MMO environment in the past with CoH, I am not very excited about this feature at all. What we got was thousands upon thousands of exploit missions with a tiny number of well made missions sprinkled in. I lost interest in it within a week and went back to playing the main game exclusively. Unfortunately, so many people were busy making and running exploit missions in the mission designer, that there were much fewer people to group with in the main game. Overall, I felt that it hurt the game more than it helped it.
    interesting thing about the UGC in Neverwinter is the tipping system
    people can actually tip you with Astral Diamonds for the quests you made
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

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