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  1. #21
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    The melee classes are somewhat more locked into what type they are, however NW has DDOs ranged beat by a mile, and it hasnt even been released yet. They arent afraid to allow realistic ranged DPS, and dont cater to the myth that it absolutely has to be like half what a melee can do because somehow automagically melee takes more damage (which is also not true in NW because the ranged PCs are equally dangerous, and not just stand-ins that allow casters to torq up).
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #22
    Community Member Derailment's Avatar
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    But did they have skating track there?

  3. #23
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    good luck with visionary Jack Emmert and his visions for you. You will need it.

  4. #24
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    I got in alpha. Played once and lost interest.

    I REALLY wanted Nw to be better or at least as good as ddo.... but well... What can I say?
    - graphics looks odd. DDO graphics is way better. Nw graphics is just shining in a weird way and faces look all like made from plastic.
    - you dont have that much flexibility building your character - theres no ROGUE who you can create how u want - its trickster rogue. theres no wizzard who u may do for dmg or for control or for both -< its CONTROL wizzard. I dont like it. More! Im granted spells on low lvls like every other wizzards. I cant DECIDE which on I want. I automatically get these who everyone gets :/ to lvl 10 - to when i played there as no enhancements or feats or anything to choose from.
    - combat. I saw no d20 or any roll at all. And well... Its not as good as ddo one. Nw combat seems more WoWish. Even gw2 has better combat. I mean... Spellcasters cannot move while casting? Lol? and theres seems to be a big pause every swing. True is you can try to dodge/tumble from damage but its still not better than in gw2. Pracically the same with worse looking graphic.
    - traps - you dont spot them. they just shine on the floor (even more shining! yay!) if u can see them ofc.
    -map is weird... it let u see where u have to go but not on map... it shust shinies (even more!) your way thro grass.

    So honestly... the only thing it has from ddo is the name and some of world settings... but thats it.

    Its not like thi game is terrible. Its still beta... But I doubt they will change a lot.
    Im really dissapointed. I was expecting better grahic, better quests, more customization options, similiar to ddo combat and all that coveer in new story and events.
    Well... I got only new story.

    It seems Im gonna be sticking to ddo untill Turbine releases DDO 2 or sth like that.
    Nw is much bigger dissapointment than GW2 <- which didnt hold me for long but at least graphics combat and story were decently done.
    Last edited by Kayla93; 02-15-2013 at 10:05 AM.

  5. #25
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayla93 View Post
    I got in alpha. Played once and lost interest.

    I REALLY wanted Nw to be better or at least as good as ddo.... but well... What can I say?
    - graphics looks odd. DDO graphics is way better. Nw graphics is just shining in a weird way and faces look all like made from plastic.
    - you dont have that much flexibility building your character - theres no ROGUE who you can create how u want - its trickster rogue. theres no wizzard who u may do for dmg or for control or for both -< its CONTROL wizzard. I dont like it. More! Im granted spells on low lvls like every other wizzards. I cant DECIDE which on I want. I automatically get these who everyone gets :/ to lvl 10 - to when i played there as no enhancements or feats or anything to choose from.
    - combat. I saw no d20 or any roll at all. And well... Its not as good as ddo one. Nw combat seems more WoWish. Even gw2 has better combat. I mean... Spellcasters cannot move while casting? Lol? and theres seems to be a big pause every swing. True is you can try to dodge/tumble from damage but its still not better than in gw2. Pracically the same with worse looking graphic.
    - traps - you dont spot them. they just shine on the floor (even more shining! yay!) if u can see them ofc.
    -map is weird... it let u see where u have to go but not on map... it shust shinies (even more!) your way thro grass.

    So honestly... the only thing it has from ddo is the name and some of world settings... but thats it.

    Its not like thi game is terrible. Its still beta... But I doubt they will change a lot.
    Im really dissapointed. I was expecting better grahic, better quests, more customization options, similiar to ddo combat and all that coveer in new story and events.
    Well... I got only new story.

    It seems Im gonna be sticking to ddo untill Turbine releases DDO 2 or sth like that.
    Nw is much bigger dissapointment than GW2 <- which didnt hold me for long but at least graphics combat and story were decently done.
    My 2cp:
    - graphics : to each their own here. It definitely looks more realistic in some aspects, and less realistics in others. In essence, I'd say it's DDO meets WoW. That may work for some, or it might not. Very personal preference here.

    - combat : yeah, this is looking to be a shortcoming. Very animated attacks, which again, some prefer. It looks a bit like Aion if anyone has played that - not overly realistic, but very flashy. DDO, on the other hand, has the same 4 or 5 animations (barring epic destiny abilities) over and over again. So again, to each their own; some will like it, others won't. One could also argue here that at least you don't have to carry 20 different weapons, and make 7 hotbars with "clickies" And as mentioned above, ranged combat looks to be a viable option from the get go.

    - character creation / races / classes : this is the real stink of it, right here. Having even fewer classes than DDO did (no Bard, Ranger, etc.), and then confining them to specific playstyles will make for a very linear experience. As noted above, things may change between now and release (there's rumours that Rangers are "in the works", so who knows). But this will be a major disappointment for many D&D gamers, especially given that the PnP version is very open to customization (often limited only by one's imagination).

  6. #26
    Community Member Avenging_Angel's Avatar
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    From a recent interview with the devs:

    TB: "How is this different from DDO?"
    Dev: [pause] "Well, it's set in the Forgotten Realms. We love the Forgotten Realms".

    Ok...


    Also,

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrune View Post
    You like a game... Want a cookie?
    Why does this thread exist? Was this an attempt to mildly annoy the community, failtrolling, a 14yo looking for attention... you tell me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonulino View Post
    No matter what you post, there is always someone who responds with something like "Unless you are gimped, you should be able to do this with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back." It gets a little tiresome.

  7. #27
    Community Member Taojeff's Avatar
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    Default I played it. Some misconceptions are floating around

    Here is my opinion. And I Did play in the beta and plan to play in all of the coming betas.

    Combat
    Combat can be described as a fast pasted real-time strategy combat. Yes you do stand still for a moment, but you still need to aim and face the monsters. Monsters do not auto hit you when they are not facing you or out of range. When an attack is made it is interpreted by the engine right then. So you can move out of the way of swings, through your shield up, interrupt and opponents attack with one of your own.

    In comparison to DDO, most melee characters will find themselves better off in NWN because you can accurately time attacks and the physics engine seems to be better at placing animation with hits. There are many a time that I curse the DDO-Quasi-real-time combat. Sure you may be already out of range but you still get hit because it was rolled 2 seconds ago when you dodged. Combat is a notch down in speed from DDO but feels just as frantic because unlike in DDO you can time a lot more. It does take some getting use to over DDO (mostly with different key bindings though), but I found it deeply rewarding. Button mashers will generally not get as much out of it as people who can think quick and strategically. My opinion is that it takes more mental skill and about the same amount of reaction time as DDO to be great. I will say that jumping around spamming casters and range will definitely loose out in NWN, you just cant exploit range like you can in DDO for good or bad.

    At one point I jumped into a group of mobs that were several levels higher then myself, which promptly made me high-tail it out of there... only to find myself in a dead-end and facing twice as many mobs as before. I was able to beat a group of about 10 mobs who were 3-4 levels higher them myself but playing very smart and constantly changing strategies and position during the battle. I never could have done this in DDO without exploiting the enemy AI in someway or using the terrain in some cheap way. So see the above about deeply rewarding.

    Customization
    It does not even began to compare with DDO. Enough said, no contest.

    Items
    About even atm. And this is with NWN just coming out. The only real thing that keeps DDO level with NWN is that classes are rather restricted in the weapons they use. The rest of the gear already has slots, sets, all the stuff you think a mmo in this day and age should have. Yes crafting is there also, but I did not go into very much so I cannot comment on it.

    Graphics, UI, Engine
    NWN, no contest, its not even close. It shouldn't be either, the games are 7 years apart. Will have to wait for DDO 2 to win this one. This includes just about every UI interface also and stuff that DDO does not even have like built in Guild Calendars, Event and whats new boards....the list goes on and on.

    Monetization
    Its FTP, I mean really really FTP. You do not have to buy packs or anything. Yes you do start out rather limited to people who do buy stuff right away (in terms of character slots and equipment). But its is pretty easy to earn astral diamonds and then trade them for Zen. You can easily get thousands of diamonds a day without even trying. You can also sell gear you find for astral diamonds on the AH. I expect it to get harder over time to get Zen for astral diamonds though as the rate will normalize a bit and you will not be able to get as much Zen.

    Quests
    Hard to tell who wins out here, mostly because I just did not get to see that much during the beta weekend. What I did do was great, if a bit too easy. Devs had said that it will get much harder at later levels, but I will wait and see. That being said, there is no way that DDO will be able to keep up with foundry content. Even if only 1% of its good, that will be more then enough.

    I am sure there are some other areas, but overall NWN wins out on most accounts. I like DDO and will continue playing it. But I am definitely going to play NWN as I bet many of you will, whether you say you will or not. The price is right to try for sure.

    BTW. Leaked Warlock and Ranger are in, if you have been following over there.
    Last edited by Taojeff; 02-15-2013 at 10:26 AM. Reason: added to post

  8. #28
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Eye candy is great and all... but I just cannot get enthusiastic about anything that hews close to 4e.
    /THIS
    4e is like decaf coffee, it doesn't make sense to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    "I like pie. Pie is delicious." "You know, cake is better", and a sudden nerf gun war breaks out because Pie is supreme. Then someone says, "What about dinner?"

  9. #29
    Community Member kingfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeromio View Post
    Are the character customization options any good?
    no

  10. #30
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayla93 View Post
    I REALLY wanted Nw to be better or at least as good as ddo...
    All I want from Neverwinter Online is some form of competition with Turbine. That players are claiming Ranged combat is decent over there should hopefully encourage Turbine to consider making it better over here.
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  11. #31
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxgolg View Post
    A comparison between controls to another game should not get this locked in the General area. But I've seen stranger things. How is the combat compared to DDO's run and slash. I heard/seen video about stand and fighting
    Per the NWN developers they purposely did not want to put fighting while moving in the game. From the look of it and per the MMO guest player te game looks dumbed down, maybe for kids? It has been compared by the developers themselves to a Diablo style of run over the loot to pick it items system. It also has a little less focus on character customization as DDO does.

    In summary although I love most if not nearly all things D&D NWN does not have any appeal to me over DDO. The DDO team just needs to continue their Forgotten Realms expansion.
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  12. #32
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    I'm going to give NWO a try when it gets released. The beta doesnt't appeal to me, as so much can and probably will change before the product is released. I figure, why get used to a style of play that won't be the final product?

    My 2cp's worth.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taojeff View Post
    Here is my opinion. And I Did play in the beta and plan to play in all of the coming betas.

    Combat
    Combat can be described as a fast pasted real-time strategy combat. Yes you do stand still for a moment, but you still need to aim and face the monsters. Monsters do not auto hit you when they are not facing you or out of range. When an attack is made it is interpreted by the engine right then. So you can move out of the way of swings, through your shield up, interrupt and opponents attack with one of your own.

    In comparison to DDO, most melee characters will find themselves better off in NWN because you can accurately time attacks and the physics engine seems to be better at placing animation with hits. There are many a time that I curse the DDO-Quasi-real-time combat. Sure you may be already out of range but you still get hit because it was rolled 2 seconds ago when you dodged. Combat is a notch down in speed from DDO but feels just as frantic because unlike in DDO you can time a lot more. It does take some getting use to over DDO (mostly with different key bindings though), but I found it deeply rewarding. Button mashers will generally not get as much out of it as people who can think quick and strategically. My opinion is that it takes more mental skill and about the same amount of reaction time as DDO to be great. I will say that jumping around spamming casters and range will definitely loose out in NWN, you just cant exploit range like you can in DDO for good or bad.

    At one point I jumped into a group of mobs that were several levels higher then myself, which promptly made me high-tail it out of there... only to find myself in a dead-end and facing twice as many mobs as before. I was able to beat a group of about 10 mobs who were 3-4 levels higher them myself but playing very smart and constantly changing strategies and position during the battle. I never could have done this in DDO without exploiting the enemy AI in someway or using the terrain in some cheap way. So see the above about deeply rewarding.

    Customization
    It does not even began to compare with DDO. Enough said, no contest.

    Items
    About even atm. And this is with NWN just coming out. The only real thing that keeps DDO level with NWN is that classes are rather restricted in the weapons they use. The rest of the gear already has slots, sets, all the stuff you think a mmo in this day and age should have. Yes crafting is there also, but I did not go into very much so I cannot comment on it.

    Graphics, UI, Engine
    NWN, no contest, its not even close. It shouldn't be either, the games are 7 years apart. Will have to wait for DDO 2 to win this one. This includes just about every UI interface also and stuff that DDO does not even have like built in Guild Calendars, Event and whats new boards....the list goes on and on.

    Monetization
    Its FTP, I mean really really FTP. You do not have to buy packs or anything. Yes you do start out rather limited to people who do buy stuff right away (in terms of character slots and equipment). But its is pretty easy to earn astral diamonds and then trade them for Zen. You can easily get thousands of diamonds a day without even trying. You can also sell gear you find for astral diamonds on the AH. I expect it to get harder over time to get Zen for astral diamonds though as the rate will normalize a bit and you will not be able to get as much Zen.

    Quests
    Hard to tell who wins out here, mostly because I just did not get to see that much during the beta weekend. What I did do was great, if a bit too easy. Devs had said that it will get much harder at later levels, but I will wait and see. That being said, there is no way that DDO will be able to keep up with foundry content. Even if only 1% of its good, that will be more then enough.

    I am sure there are some other areas, but overall NWN wins out on most accounts. I like DDO and will continue playing it. But I am definitely going to play NWN as I bet many of you will, whether you say you will or not. The price is right to try for sure.

    BTW. Leaked Warlock and Ranger are in, if you have been following over there.
    Really good assessment. I also played the beta last weekend and plan to play the others.

    I believe both games win - there is enough of a market both - they will mostly cater to different people. Neverwinter is going to generall appeal to peeople that have less time to spend playing an MMO.

    The biggest flaw I see with neverwinter at the moment is that the PVP is entirely pay to win. As for PVE, it's completely unnecessary to ever spend a $ for that, although many will to get nice things sooner. The monetization was really well designed.
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  14. #34
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
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    Even though I didn't like the combat system and the lack of customization from gameplay videos, I'll give it a try.

    It's like wine, it's better when it's aged. I hope.

    It's still a beta game. With more and more reviews as it gets released they will adjust their game and add new things, just like in DDO where the enhancement system was very limited at the start.
    It has potential.

  15. #35
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    This post was originally under general topics and it was either moved or duplicated by the OP. See many opposing views on this subject at Neverwinter Fails D&D Expectations.
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  16. #36
    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The melee classes are somewhat more locked into what type they are, however NW has DDOs ranged beat by a mile, and it hasnt even been released yet. They arent afraid to allow realistic ranged DPS, and dont cater to the myth that it absolutely has to be like half what a melee can do because somehow automagically melee takes more damage (which is also not true in NW because the ranged PCs are equally dangerous, and not just stand-ins that allow casters to torq up).
    This sounds good I may have to try it out while I wait for DDO to come back online at some point. But I'm afraid if I do then I might not want to come back.. still, couldn't hurt to try it, right?

  17. #37
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrite View Post
    This sounds good I may have to try it out while I wait for DDO to come back online at some point. But I'm afraid if I do then I might not want to come back.. still, couldn't hurt to try it, right?
    Nope, won't hurt to try at all. Games are supposed to be fun, so go where the fun is at for you.

  18. #38
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    All I can say is it looks nice. I was going to use NWO as a diversion when DDO was down, but after playing for a bit I find the controls too frustrating...

    There is very little customization and very little D&D feel besides names of things being thrown around and chests...
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  19. #39
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Most MMOs release an area of content once and very rarely is it ever updated. The reality is DDO has very good graphics potential and can easily make use of the latest graphics hardware.
    It would be nice (although it's not in my Top 10, or even Top 20 of most important issues) if they would at least go back and revisit character graphics. Half-elves especially.

  20. #40
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Eye candy is great and all... but I just cannot get enthusiastic about anything that hews close to 4e.
    I dunno, we've taken on a fair bit of 4e influence here too lol

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