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Thread: Elf AA AM

  1. #1
    Community Member ThePrincipal's Avatar
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    Default Elf AA AM

    Would an Elf AA with AM work?

    AA requires - Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Ranged

    AM requires - Spell Focus, Mental Toughness, Greater Spell Focus

    5 required feats.

    2 left for rapid shot and manyshot

    5 Wizard metas - quicken, extend, maximize, empower, heighten

    17 dex, 18 int and the rest into con. seems... plausable yes?

    basic idea would be to range to supplement spell casting.

    Force Focus seems like the best use of Arcane Bolt and Blast and cheap Missles. Although Illusion sounds fun too spaming PTK.

  2. #2
    Community Member Dexxaan's Avatar
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    Arrow Elven AA / AM

    Funny you ask.

    I am building an Elven AA/AM. (Arkkanoz)

    But in order to make the build workable (for my playstyle and to make the most of the costs incurred) I went 16 Wizard, 2 Ranger, 2 Rogue.

    2 Rogue: Self Heal scrolling via UMD, Evasion, Trapping, lots of Starting Skill Pts.

    2 Ranger: Bow Strength, TWF for Melee (For beating down, Held & or Stunned Mobs) as well as Rapid Shot and the additional Skill Pts for Search, Spot, Hide & Move Silently

    16 Wizard: Archmage IV, Enchantment focus. (With 2 past Wizard Lives I make up nicely for the levels)

    Some advice: Wizards are SP starved as is, by going AA to "supplement casting" (PK & Force spells) you are going to be out of mana quick in most scenarios. I'm making my Elven AA in order to self buff, use Pinion and other bows to maximize DPS / CC (Shiradi)
    and retain most of my mana to Ice Storm as needed & mainly crowd control via Dominate / Hold Monster / Hypno / Mind Fog, etc. (Drow as always will be a pain in the rear, but then again few can get by their SR / Saves)


    Hope this helps.



    BTW - Arkkanoz is L12 atm and a ton of Fun to play from the start.
    "Multi-Classing: If you don't know what you are doing...please don't do it."
    Arkkanoz / Barbarrus / BoarAxe / Bruttus / Dahlamaar / Dexxaan / Dominattrix / Gregorius / Inquisittor / Mechanikkus / Predattor / Suntzzu / Valkeerya

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePrincipal View Post
    Would an Elf AA with AM work?

    AA requires - Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Ranged

    AM requires - Spell Focus, Mental Toughness, Greater Spell Focus

    5 required feats.

    2 left for rapid shot and manyshot

    5 Wizard metas - quicken, extend, maximize, empower, heighten

    17 dex, 18 int and the rest into con. seems... plausable yes?

    basic idea would be to range to supplement spell casting.

    Force Focus seems like the best use of Arcane Bolt and Blast and cheap Missles. Although Illusion sounds fun too spaming PTK.
    The one thing I will say about a build like this, you will have abysmal ranged dps from your bow. With no bow strength/strength score to speak of, even with many shot you would likely be better off spamming your various force spells. Ranged combat is just that weak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadereaper33 View Post
    The one thing I will say about a build like this, you will have abysmal ranged dps from your bow. With no bow strength/strength score to speak of, even with many shot you would likely be better off spamming your various force spells. Ranged combat is just that weak.
    Hi,

    This poster makes a good point. Ranged combat requires a significant stat point and feat investment to make it effective at all.

    Something which might be problematic for you is the lack of the precise shot feat.

    Even if you are happy to skip IPS so you could hit multiple foes at once, the lack of precise shot means you won't be able to hit your target if any other mobs get between you and it.

    You may also have trouble hitting things at all, especially if you move around while firing, due to your character's low BAB. Perhaps using tenser's transformation could help to offset that.

    That being said, it could be fun, so if you want to try by all means go for it. At worst you could LR or swap out your feats if the experiment is a failure.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  5. #5
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePrincipal View Post
    Would an Elf AA with AM work?
    I did it. I guess that makes the answer yes.

  6. #6
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    This poster makes a good point.
    Only if ranged damage is the primary reason for the build.

    Taken as a supplement to spell casting for situations where mobs can just be killed without using spell points, it works like a charm.

    Nothing quite like a triple positive bow with exploding arrows in places like the Vale, for example. By the time the mob gets to you a SLA will kill it.

    It is a matter of what you are doing with the AA.

  7. #7
    Community Member Ganolyn's Avatar
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    I have an elf Sorc AA, but I went with two levels of ranger to get the free feats to make it easier and get a marginally better BAB (not to mention the use of healing wands). Tenser's Transformation will be your best friend or you could stock up on Divine Power clickies.
    Anál nathrach
    orth’ bháis’s bethad
    do chél dénmha

  8. #8
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    BTW, you don't really need Extend. That saves a meta for you. Use it for one of the AM requirements.

    Next point, 17 DEX is too much, settle for 16. Push CON to 14.

    Last point, 18 INT probably isn't needed. You are planning on spells that are not affected by saves or spell resistance. Nothing is going to be hurt losing 1 DC by dropping INT to 16. Instead, seriously consider taking STR to 14.

    Now, I know, you are going to tell me that you need 17 DEX for manyshot. Yes, you do. So, get a +1 tome or spend a stat increase in DEX instead. In terms of build points this is more efficient than pushing DEX to 17.

    Also, the loss of 1 stat point from INT is not going to make a real difference. You will have 6 stat increases. If you use 5 on INT and take 3 INT enhancements you are sitting on even numbers. That 6th stat increase isn't doing anything for you.

    So, start stats should be more like 14 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON, 16 INT.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Only if ranged damage is the primary reason for the build.

    Taken as a supplement to spell casting for situations where mobs can just be killed without using spell points, it works like a charm.

    Nothing quite like a triple positive bow with exploding arrows in places like the Vale, for example. By the time the mob gets to you a SLA will kill it.

    It is a matter of what you are doing with the AA.
    Hi,

    I think I used the key word 'effective' in my reply, and the context of the discussion was that it was about killing things.

    There are many ways to be ineffective in the game, one of which would be to build a conventional elf wizard who hasn't spent any feats on bow use but who uses a bow anyway.

    Under that scenario, at least you have a usefully specced wizard who can cast to the full potential of the class rather than being carried by other party members who aren't worried about his eccentric choices.

    SLAs are pretty SP efficient already, and echoes of power allows arcanes to keep them up indefinitely. I suspect using damage-dealing SLAs would be better than the damage output from a toon not properly built for ranged combat. That could also be supplemented with a little melee too, where at least the rate of attack is high enough to be more useful.

    My main uses a triple positive bow too, but finds it most effective against undead. I can't think why a triple positive bow would be all that useful in the Vale. I'd use a banisher, paralyzer or a dps weapon there instead.

    Anyway, the point of my post was to provide some advice about feat selection to the OP. I don't intend to bash people who make suboptimal build choices, because it's unpleasant but also because most of my own characters suffer from that problem.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 02-14-2013 at 07:23 PM.
    Astrican on Khyber

  10. #10
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    12 Wiz Arch 3 mage / Anything with Shiradi 5 is incredible.

    See "Deflection" in my sig. He is a Battle Engineer / AA / Archmage.

    Pew Pew Pew with Needle, MM and CM SLA's for MEGA DAMAGE, Pew Pew Pew, MM and SLA's for MEGA DAMAGE, repeat forever.

    Use Manyshot when it's off timer. I've had my main capped like this for about 3 months and I really don't want to TR him because he's too much fun and too effective.

    PS: Going beyond Archmage 3 (Chain Missles) is a complete waste as Firesheild and Cyclonic Blast are useless as SLA's.

  11. #11
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    I think I used the key word 'effective' in my reply, and the context of the discussion was that it was about killing things.
    To which I responded that you will indeed kill things without any of the extras you mention assuming you have the gear. I used the Vale as an example. I mentioned that anything that happened to survive would die to the SLAs.

    Funny thing that. Check the HP on Vale mobs. Well above the damage most characters are getting out of their SLA -- at least if running Vale while on the lower end of things.

    I found that mobs just rolled over and died most of the time. When they did not, a cheap spell would finish them off.

    And, that is the key to being effective.

    So, I did not miss that word in your reply. I only point out that your assessment is somewhat incorrect.

    But, I did run a wizard AA. Maybe you are just discussing things in general without having actually tried the character type that we are discussing.

  12. #12
    Founder Lyle_Vertigo's Avatar
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    My first life was a Sorcerer/Fighter, and while it was fun and adhered to my playstyle it was very challanging to play due to the severe handicaps given by such a union.

    DDO needs to make such combinations more feasible through new pristine classes that require multiclassing. Take Spell Swords for example, they have been in the game for a long time as monsters yet years later we don't have it. :/
    Lyles Vertigo formally known as Lyle

    Multiclass Specialist

    You can reach me at Lyle_Vertigo@msn.com

  13. #13
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    Hi,

    Effective, but not as effective as having a properly built ranged character with more or all of the useful build tools for that type of combat, or using the spells granted by your class to kill things.

    Effective, in the sense that it can be done, although there are certainly better ways to do it. That is a very minimal definition of 'effective'.

    You are correct in that I haven't run a wizard AA. But my main is an AA, and I have played an arcane to cap. So I am familiar with both playstyles, although much more so with the AA.

    My advice to you in that regard is to argue the issue, rather than falling back on calling into question our respective credentials to hold this discussion. I am not going to call your contribution into question for not having an eighth life AA character. See, it is just as tacky when I do it to you, and by the way feel free to correct me if I am wrong about that.

    So when I run my arcane and my AA characters in the Vale doing slayers, if not meleeing my AA uses IPS to kill and/or CC a number of mobs at the same time, and my caster gathers and kills things efficiently using AOE spells. The spell point cost of using basic spells like ice storm or firewall is very low with this method, probably even lower than using SLAs. As I mentioned in my last post, my AA uses a more appropriate weapon than his triple positive GS bow.

    Both the approach you describe and mine are effective in that the mobs die and our characters stay alive. But in terms of effort and time spent, I have no doubt about which method is more effective. And let's not overlook that fact that being able to kill some monsters in a slayer area is about the lowest benchmark for success available for a character in the game.

    Once again, I'm not advocating a 'one true build' approach for classes. The main points of my first post were that I think a ranged build like the one mentioned by the OP, which lacks precise shot, will be problematic because he won't even be able to reliably hit his targetted enemy with a ranged weapon if other monsters are around. They will get in the way and he will find it hard to consistently hit his target.

    I also said that the damage output will be poor, that there will be to hit problems with some foes, and that better solutions are available. I don't think that any of these are controversial statements, just sensible advice, and at no point have I said there wasn't any other way to do things.

    Jakeelala's post has a clever idea for how to build an all-around ranged toon on a wizard base. It seems like a far better build idea than what was originally proposed in this thread, so perhaps for people interested in this sort of thing that might be worth looking at.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  14. #14
    Community Member ThePrincipal's Avatar
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    Now I'm leaning towards AM Enchant focus because of the Elf bonus to Spell Penn and the ever present need for CC in difficult quests. Spamming Hypnotise seems good.

    For the Bow, it would be a debuff bow in improve spell casting success like Shattermantle, Curse, Con Damage, etc.

    Thanks for all the quick input. I'm going to roll it up.

  15. #15
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle_Vertigo View Post
    My first life was a Sorcerer/Fighter, and while it was fun and adhered to my playstyle it was very challanging to play due to the severe handicaps given by such a union.

    DDO needs to make such combinations more feasible through new pristine classes that require multiclassing. Take Spell Swords for example, they have been in the game for a long time as monsters yet years later we don't have it. :/
    Like an artificer? or more like a warchanter?

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