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Thread: Hirelings

  1. #1
    Community Member dogbreath68's Avatar
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    Default Hirelings

    Ok 1st off hirelings save time and resources,but they really need a MAJOR overhaul.

    1. Mana pot consumption:Why do they always down a pot when only down 10% or so of their mana?
    In almost every quest they are out of mana pots within 5 minutes and when at end of quest they have no mana left AND no pots to use.

    2. Constantly running off even when told to stay put:This causes them to most likely die and not be able to aid you when they get caught by mobs and unable to return to where they are SUPPOSED to be in the first place.

    3.Very little if any concentration: This causes them to not be able to heal when they decide to run into battle,since mobs seem to never have to make a concentration check why do the hirelings?This comes into play especially when they try to cast mass heal,possibly the slowest spell ever and they never seem to get it off and "ding" either you or a party member or the hire dies.

    4. Death penalty for a hires death: Why penalize us and the party for a hires death when they seem to do anything in their power to expire during a quest? Most if not all of the time points 2 and 3 above seem to mark the end of our hire during a quest so if they cant be controlled and their actions are out of our power,why do WE the party get -%5 for something we have a very hard time controlling?

    So I suggest some solutions:Have them actually respond to our orders(we are paying them to aid us,how many times would you hire someone if they continued to dissapoint you? my guess not after the 2nd or 3rd time),give them useful spells on quick bar,like freedom of movement instead of lets say turn undead,or resist energy.
    Also lets give them some gear..why are they the slowest thing in Ebberon?Striders devs ..striders.
    Have them actually recognize a shrine is near so not to down a mana pot when not needed and use them sparringly.
    And please get rid of hires death xp penalty,the true rezzers out there would appreciate the extra xp.
    And lastly help make it where they can actually heal in battle,not attack slimes,and actually do what we hire them for,and PLEASE respec their quick bars,give them useful spells or let us pick spells for them to carry when we hire them,situational spells,let us have freedom of movement,deathward,dv's and heal.

    These are my thoughts.

    Thank You



    If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

  2. #2
    Community Member voxson5's Avatar
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    Just take larafey...


    ...and try to keep up with her kill count


    I don't know why people get so hung up on the survival bonus these days, even for a quest with 10k base xp, having a hire die is only a loss of 500xp

  3. #3
    Community Member dogbreath68's Avatar
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    1st how does that address the problem? And second I dont get a hire to kill I can do that, I get them to heal and cast deathward to save resources..and if you cant keep up with a hires kill count you have a bigger problem than posting nonsense here that doesnt help,time to reroll your toons if you cant outkill ANY hire.
    Last edited by dogbreath68; 02-12-2013 at 10:14 AM.



    If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

  4. #4
    Community Member voxson5's Avatar
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    So you want a babysitter not a hireling?

    Don't take offence man, I'm not trying to berate you. Some hirelings perform better than others, that's all.

  5. #5
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    If you want your hire to not move, click the passive button, along with the stay put button. Clicking the passive button WITHOUT the stay put button is also the quickest way to get your hire to come to you without delay. It is possible to keymap the hires heal command to a hotkey, if that;s what you want them for. You can activate this even while they are in inactive mode.

  6. #6
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    If you want your hire to not move, click the passive button, along with the stay put button. Clicking the passive button WITHOUT the stay put button is also the quickest way to get your hire to come to you without delay. It is possible to keymap the hires heal command to a hotkey, if that;s what you want them for. You can activate this even while they are in inactive mode.
    that works until you need a heal and now you have to remember you put the hire in passive and to get him to heal you on their own or you could tell them to heal you, but have to remember to click on yourself.

    by put the heal on the hot bar, does the hire still heal you or do you have to click on yourself first? if you have to click on yourself first, than i dont see the point in hot barring it. i honestly dont know. never tried the hot bar method.

  7. #7
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    that works until you need a heal and now you have to remember you put the hire in passive and to get him to heal you on their own or you could tell them to heal you, but have to remember to click on yourself.

    by put the heal on the hot bar, does the hire still heal you or do you have to click on yourself first? if you have to click on yourself first, than i dont see the point in hot barring it. i honestly dont know. never tried the hot bar method.
    Yes, you would have to select yourself to command the hireling to heal you. Same as if you just clicked on the hireling hotbar with your mouse. From playing a cleric and other types that heal or buff others, i have a button designated to select myself, so that's not a big deal for me.

    Most of the time there is a problem with the hireling running off to find an unseen mob happens when there aren't any mobs close by. If there are mobs around then put him back to active.

    The main problem i have with hirelings is when they veg out, and stop doing anything while they are set on active. Usually toggling between active and passive cures this, but not always. Yes, i've sometimes looked around to find that the hireling has run down a hall, up some stairs, and back down another hall and is fighting some mob that is on another floor but just above or below me. They maybe need to tone down their 'spidey sense' as regards this.

  8. #8
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Hirelings are just like the rest of this game. If you are going to use hirelings, they take getting used to and you have to learn how they work.

    They are AI, and are prone to not behaving in a manner you may be accustomed to when regarding real players.

    If you are expecting perfection, you are mistaken.

    Most importantly, familiarize yourself with the different available hirelings. Some do in fact work much better than others.

    Good luck.
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  9. #9
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Larafay is awesome, but keeping up with the kill count isn't a problem after all the mana is gone. And it's gone real quick.

    Seriously though, hirelings and pets need a heel command. A simple command that allows them to be active and cast/fight while staying by your side. This would really help with them running off and dying, standing in lava, grabbing aggro from monsters that would have otherwise never even seen you, killing monsters you aren't supposed to kill, (like the spiders in Vale... yes, I've failed that quest before soloing with a hire simply because the hire ran off and killed a spider at the very end when I was seconds away from finishing) and just generally not being around when you need them. This would really help with the druid pet at higher levels. They can be useful, but they are way too prone to run off and bite off more than they can chew (literally) while being out of range of heals. At high levels, this is almost guaranteed death at many points, and makes it really hard to even bring a pet along on most any quest.

    To the OP, you do have to adjust your playstyle slightly with hires. You cannot consider them babysitters for your hp bar. You must take into consideration the fact that they are AI and will seemingly do random and stupid things for no reason. You may even have to babysit their hp bar on occasion if you don't want the death penalty. Just because they're a hire it doesn't mean you don't have to use some teamwork.

    Personally, I think the game needs a much more serious death penalty. It should really hurt, rather than just be a slightly annoying inconvenience. No one change would make more of a difference in people facerolling every quest at supersonic speeds with no consideration to teamwork or survival. If death (yes, even hirelings) meant serious expense of resources, time, or advancement, then maybe it would be something to avoid.
    Last edited by AzB; 02-11-2013 at 08:27 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Personally, I think the game needs a much more serious death penalty. It should really hurt, rather than just be a slightly annoying inconvenience. No one change would make more of a difference in people facerolling every quest at supersonic speeds with no consideration to teamwork or survival. If death (yes, even hirelings) meant serious expense of resources, time, or advancement, then maybe it would be something to avoid.
    It would also slow the learning process down to a crawl as players would be discouraged from trying anything new to see how it works.

  11. #11
    Community Member LazarusPossum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    The main problem i have with hirelings is when they veg out, and stop doing anything while they are set on active. Usually toggling between active and passive cures this, but not always.
    This, by far, is the most serious problem. Hirelings are there to help, not pike.
    "Why is stuff so hard?" - William Murderface

  12. #12
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    It would also slow the learning process down to a crawl as players would be discouraged from trying anything new to see how it works.
    The death penalty could scale with dungeon difficulty. Casual and norm would still be easy enough for exploring, hard would be more of an inconvenience, and elite would be drastic.

  13. #13
    Community Member dogbreath68's Avatar
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    I use hires 95% of the time,I rarely group at any level except for raids,I usually put them on standby at entrance to quest unless its a higher level quest like vale elites,and call them when I actually need them.My toons are very survivable and I have been playing since the original beta way back when and Ive learned many ways to play smart not hard,like saving resources,choke points,short cuts you name it so its why I use hires(dont like waiting for groups to fill while I could be earning xp)but a babysitter as you call it is not what I need,never have never will,I just need the hire im spending money on to behave like I spent money on it not like its a mindless drone from the Atari 2600 era.



    If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

  14. #14
    Community Member diamabel's Avatar
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    It's been some time since I have played much with hirelings. Actually for a period of 1-2 months I tried dual-boxing (2 "players" + 4 hirelings).

    Let's just say it's tedious if you want the hirelings to contribute in a meaningful way. If you want to play it safe you practically have to prepare an ambush and lure/pull opponents into your ambush. Unfortunately there are some encounters where the pathfinding of hirelings will bork things (e.g. jumping down a ledge, moving through some doors). There will be some encounters (e.g. Delera's quest chain) where it is sometimes useful to have one or two block in order to block a narrow passage or have some squishy protected from missiles. Things are tedious and slow, but with planning you can manage to run quests at level on elite difficulty. It's easier if you know the quests and can prepare accordingly.

    The point is. It would be great if you could give the hirelings more elaborate orders:

    1) Attack the owner's target or the target of a specific party member (focus fire / target priority)
    2) Stand still and block
    3) Use a specific spell or specific spells (e.g. only fire based spells or only cold based spells)
    4) Have access to a hireling caster's spell book to prepare spells which are more suitable
    5) Use special attacks in certain situations (e.g. trip / stunning blow / stunning strike vs casters)
    6) Specify conditions under which a caster hireling should debuff/dispell

    As it is now I don't use the hirelings in any meaningful way. Dunno, maybe something similar to what was done in Dragon Age 1 may be interesting. Of course a player would be responsible to "customize" his/her hirelings. I doubt that it's worth to improve the AI. The devs are going to implement arbitrary behavioural rules. That might work in some situations and that might not work in other situations. Customizing by experienced players may not be worse than that. Especially if you can define behavioural rules for different situations (e.g. plan A vs casters, plan B vs melees, plan C vs Trolls, plan D vs. self healing opponents, plan E vs undead, etc.).
    Last edited by diamabel; 02-12-2013 at 12:55 PM.
    Wanderer (Lyrandar -> Keeper -> Ghallanda)

  15. #15

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    The best fix for healing hirelings would be a "heal" button. Actions will be to only heal self/owner/party members and NOT FRIGGIN CHARMED CREATURES!!! I hate watching two enemies duke it out and find my healer is spamming heals on our "temporary" friend!

    Also, for the "heal" function, the hireling should stay a few feet behind the owner. Close enough to heal, but not to stand in the middle of the melee mess.
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