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  1. #61
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    No. They've never had a vote and kick.

    I was here in 2006. No.
    No it was a leader only decision and so was loot distributation both horrible ideas and gladly gone a vote system would be no better

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    No it was a leader only decision and so was loot distributation both horrible ideas and gladly gone a vote system would be no better
    What evidence do you have of that?

  3. #63
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    What evidence do you have of that?
    Seven years of playing, common sense a ounce of humanity, a majority of fourm posters against kicking, what evidence do you have that I am wrong?

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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    There was never a vote and kick. So sorry. Thanks for playing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    He's absolutely correct.... there was no vote needed for the kick back in the day.
    This is true, I was inexact in saying that yes, we had it. There was no "vote to kick", but there was a kick by leader feature, which is pretty much the same mechanic with the same flaws in my book.

    Here is a 2008 thread where it was discussed http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=153298
    Last edited by Gkar; 02-11-2013 at 09:58 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Seven years of playing, common sense a ounce of humanity, a majority of fourm posters against kicking, what evidence do you have that I am wrong?
    I'm not making an absolute sweeping judgement that it's the only way. I'm saying that there is merit to the suggestion. You have made the absolute statement and I asked you where your evidence is. 7 years of playing isn't evidence that the game should stay the same...the game has changed immensely in 7 years.

  6. #66
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    More Fun Fact: It could be easier.

    Vote to kick.
    You've said that we need a solution for a problem because we don't have a way to deal with pikers today. The solution that you advocate has its own problems (i.e. griefing). We already have several solutions for the problem of piking. No need to add more problems in an effort to make existing solutions slightly more convenient.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    This is true, I was inexact in saying that yes, we had it. There was no "vote to kick", but there was a kick by leader feature, which is pretty much the same mechanic with the same flaws in my book.

    Here is a 2008 thread where it was discussed http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=153298
    It's not even close to the same mechanic. If you have 5 pugs joining, and need a vote of 4 to kick someone, than most of the group has to want that person gone. When there was only 1 person with the ability to kick, they could kick a sorc because they wanted the chance to pull the torc for themselves.

    Can you list the mechanics that you think are the same?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    You've said that we need a solution for a problem because we don't have a way to deal with pikers today. The solution that you advocate has its own problems (i.e. griefing). We already have several solutions for the problem of piking. No need to add more problems in an effort to make existing solutions slightly more convenient.
    NO. I said this is a better solution than what we currently have which you think is so great. When a party member entered a quest on the wrong difficulty, in the past, you would have to recall, reform and run back to the quest. Now you can hit a button to reset it. It's called progress.
    Last edited by Cheezburgerz; 02-11-2013 at 10:06 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    to Cheezeburgerz:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=184383
    [B][/INDENT]
    That's great if you wish to undo neg rep, I guess. I'm not asking for the neg rep to be removed. I'll be able to pass neg rep forward someday.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    It's not even close to the same mechanic. If you have 5 pugs joining, and need a vote of 4 to kick someone, than most of the group has to want that person gone. When there was only 1 person with the ability to kick, they could kick a sorc because they wanted the chance to pull the torc for themselves.

    Can you list the mechanics that you think are the same?
    what you so shortsightedly fail to see is the increase in griefing that will fall upon the true lone wolf pugger who is used for a spot to fill for some guild group. For your above example a guild run going on, and the leader is a WF sorc. really hungry for the torc. cant get his guild to move without a healer so he spams invites to any non anon divine until he gets them filled. Then when one of his own pulls a torc and the clerics demand equal chance to roll and certainly being the healers have more right then anyone else, get vote kicked by that guild group. and in a world of his word over their word, the larger group will be the one with the ability to spread their version of the TRUTH. Much like a gang rape in RL. You dont want to give power to the players in things like this. Ive seen vote systems abused horribly in other MMO like champions online where the SILENCERS rule the world and all live in fear to speak out in public or host social events knowing their voice might be taken from them.

  11. #71
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    NO. I said this is a better solution than what we currently have which you think is so great. When a party member entered a quest on the wrong difficulty, in the past, you would have to recall, reform and run back to the quest. No you can hit a button to reset it. It's called progress.
    Progress implies that the change is an improvement.

    I disagree that your suggested change is.

    More griefing is not as good as less griefing. That even puts aside the question of what fun and interesting new bugs would be introduced with a new feature like this. I'm sure that Turbine could come up with several high quality bugs with a significant feature change like this.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    what you so shortsightedly fail to see is the increase in griefing that will fall upon the true lone wolf pugger who is used for a spot to fill for some guild group. For your above example a guild run going on, and the leader is a WF sorc. really hungry for the torc. cant get his guild to move without a healer so he spams invites to any non anon divine until he gets them filled. Then when one of his own pulls a torc and the clerics demand equal chance to roll and certainly being the healers have more right then anyone else, get vote kicked by that guild group. and in a world of his word over their word, the larger group will be the one with the ability to spread their version of the TRUTH. Much like a gang rape in RL. You dont want to give power to the players in things like this. Ive seen vote systems abused horribly in other MMO like champions online where the SILENCERS rule the world and all live in fear to speak out in public or host social events knowing their voice might be taken from them.
    I don't see that scenario turning out differently the way things are now or with the vote to kick option in place. I would not recommend that the vote to kick option be available in raids.

  13. #73
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    The trail is as follows
    Quote Originally Posted by lucasphi View Post
    So, I don't know if this has been suggested before, but here goes.

    I'm tired of ppl joining the group just to pike at the entrance of the quest.... Or even ppl that start and after 40 seconds leave the pc. There should be a way for party leader to kick or for anyone to start a vote kick to get someone unwanted out of the group inside the quest.

    What do you guys say?
    To which MsErika Replied
    Quote Originally Posted by MsEricka View Post
    /not signed

    DDO had this, it was abused. There is no way it can be done to avoid abuse.

    If someone is piking, recall, reform and restart. Of course you do this after kiting mobs to them and using diplo or teleporting out.
    To which you immediately replied
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    MMM, no. DDO never had this. Thanks.
    And so you are correct in that there was never a VOTE and KICK. However the original post wanted leader kick. WTthe reply you made initially was to a reply that said no this has already been done in obvious reference to the leader kicking.

    What there really was was a simple LEADER KICK. It was there and it worked the same way as kicks work in town now but they could do it anywhere at any time. I know it's true because it HAPPENED to me. I also know join date <> played since date, my own is a testament to that.

    As for the neg rep.
    A.) sorry you got some
    b.) you probably should not have mentioned it as it's against the rules
    C.) it didn't come from me (I have never handed out neg rep) so I'd like an apology if ya don't mind after all you have called me a liar and accused me unfairly.

    To summarize my point on the whole thread. The idea (Leader can kick in quest) is a bad one as it was there initially and it was abused. All of the other systems proposed by and large are more cumbersome that completing / recalling and forming around the guy IMHO.
    Last edited by SiliconScout; 02-11-2013 at 10:19 AM.


  14. #74
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    That's great if you wish to undo neg rep, I guess. I'm not asking for the neg rep to be removed. I'll be able to pass neg rep forward someday.
    You're also assuming that Ms Erika and Siliconscout are the ones that gave you the neg rep in spite of the fact that you have no evidence that they did.

    Note that posts complaining about receiving negative reputation are a type of rep farming. While such comments may not necessarily be removed, your account will be investigated for rep farming, which may result in having your reputation altered and receiving warnings and/or infractions at the discretion of the moderators. You should instead report reputation abuse by using the Report Post icon.
    I don't think that you're fishing for positive rep to "make up for" the neg rep that you received, but you're still complaining about neg rep and that's a forum no-no. Just thought you should know so that you don't run afoul of rules that most forumgoers don't even know about.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Progress implies that the change is an improvement.

    I disagree that your suggested change is.

    More griefing is not as good as less griefing. That even puts aside the question of what fun and interesting new bugs would be introduced with a new feature like this. I'm sure that Turbine could come up with several high quality bugs with a significant feature change like this.
    It's actually not my suggested change but the OP's. I happen to be one of the many hardcore DDO fans that agree with him. I haven't seen any new bugs with the quest reset function, so I can't say for sure that there would be several high quality bugs associated with it. I wouldn't use this as a griefing feature - I would use it as a way to protect my pug groups from others griefing us. I propose that the OP's idea is a good one and would make the game better for pugs.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    The trail is as follows


    To which MsErika Replied


    To which you immediately replied


    And so you are correct in that there was never a VOTE and KICK. However the original post just wanted leader kick and the reply you made initially was to a reply that said no this has already been done.
    What there was was a simple LEADER KICK. It was there and it worked the same way as kicks work in town now but they could do it anywhere at any time. I know it's true because it HAPPENED to me.

    As for the neg rep.
    A.) sorry you got some
    b.) you probably should not have mentioned it as it's against the rules
    C.) it didn't come from me (I have never handed out neg rep) so I'd like an apology if ya don't mind.

    To summarize my point on the whole thread. The idea (Leader can kick in quest) is a bad one as it was there initially and it was abused. All of the other systems proposed by and large are more cumbersome that completing / recalling and forming around the guy IMHO.
    You left out the part where you immediately jumped on the band wagon, wrongfully backed up Ms Erika's claims and questioned my knowledge of the game because of my join date.

    I respect your opinion, but I don't think that recalling and reforming and then running back out to a quest, especially if it's chains of flame, is easier than vote to kick.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    You're also assuming that Ms Erika and Siliconscout are the ones that gave you the neg rep in spite of the fact that you have no evidence that they did.



    I don't think that you're fishing for positive rep to "make up for" the neg rep that you received, but you're still complaining about neg rep and that's a forum no-no. Just thought you should know so that you don't run afoul of rules that most forumgoers don't even know about.
    Those posts were the ones neg repped, so I addressed them. I have removed their names, but my opinion remains.

  18. #78
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    You left out the part where you immediately jumped on the band wagon, wrongfully backed up Ms Erika's claims and questioned my knowledge of the game because of my join date.

    I respect your opinion, but I don't think that recalling and reforming and then running back out to a quest, especially if it's chains of flame, is easier than vote to kick.
    yes I did make light of the post count and join date. I probably should not have done that so you have my apologies for that.

    The vast majority of quests allow you to step out, drop the group, reform and go back in easily. Chains of Flame could be an issue, and it's the only one that comes to mind that is a real PITA, but honestly just complete with the piker in tow then and dump him after for that one quest.

    However I did NOT wrongfully back up MsErika's claims, she is right. The Leader kick in quest DID exist and it WAS abused and quickly removed to be honest.

    Please stop calling me a liar, also I couldn't neg rep you if you wanted my rep isn't high enough to... so I would appreciate an apology.


  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    yes I did make light of the post count and join date. I probably should not have done that so you have my apologies for that.

    The vast majority of quests allow you to step out, drop the group, reform and go back in easily. Chains of Flame could be an issue, and it's the only one that comes to mind that is a real PITA, but honestly just complete with the piker in tow then and dump him after for that one quest.

    However I did NOT wrongfully back up MsErika's claims, she is right. The Leader kick in quest DID exist and it WAS abused and quickly removed to be honest.

    Please stop calling me a liar, also I couldn't neg rep you if you wanted my rep isn't high enough to... so I would appreciate an apology.
    I never called you a liar, please stop saying that I did. I'm sorry that you think I called you a liar. I won't ever not call you a liar again.

  20. #80
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezburgerz View Post
    It's not even close to the same mechanic. If you have 5 pugs joining, and need a vote of 4 to kick someone, than most of the group has to want that person gone. When there was only 1 person with the ability to kick, they could kick a sorc because they wanted the chance to pull the torc for themselves.

    Can you list the mechanics that you think are the same?
    I don't know about you, but I find often in pugs several people know each other and just fill out the group. There is also nothing to stop "I'll give you each 1000 plat to kick the guy".

    It's the same mechanic, except its mob tactics instead of a dictatorship.

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