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  1. #1
    Community Member lucasphi's Avatar
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    Default Kick or vote kick inside quests

    So, I don't know if this has been suggested before, but here goes.

    I'm tired of ppl joining the group just to pike at the entrance of the quest.... Or even ppl that start and after 40 seconds leave the pc. There should be a way for party leader to kick or for anyone to start a vote kick to get someone unwanted out of the group inside the quest.

    What do you guys say?

  2. #2
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    Hi,

    I think an arrangement like this has huge potential for griefing. And sometimes the leader of the group is the problem, not the other group members.

    You currently have the option of reforming the party. If you are a short way into a quest and you think people are piking, you could try talking to them about it. There may be a legitimate reason.

    But if you aren't happy with the response, just get the group to recall and reform without the piker. That avoids the host of other problems which are introduced by being able to kick people in-quest.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  3. #3
    Community Member gphysalis's Avatar
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    no

    This would let people kick out honest people who had worked for the completion to make room for their friends, and let them pike the completion and loot.

    This would be nice in theory if 99.9% of the population was nice and honest, and only 0.1% was bad.
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  4. #4
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    It's been suggested before and the answer is usually that adding that feature causes more griefing than it fixes.

    It's probably best to either just finish the quest then drop the piker or have everyone else exit out and reform around him. If you're in an absolutely evil mood, bring a pile of mobs back to him and hit diplomacy, repeat until he dies. Tell him if he wasn't piking, he could have killed the 3 kobolds that ripped him to shreds over a period of 35 minutes.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Zorth's Avatar
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    Exclamation You mean pugs right?

    This thread refers to pugs as I do not see a guild lasting long that is mean to its own members in such a manner.

    To do this right then the game needs to get rid of lag entirely, and be compatable with all windows programs (cough!)

    Also reading what NPC's have to say will be a speed read and then zerging is all we do and also last but not least, this idea prevents anyone from caring about the game and just troll each other.

    Why would this be good for the game?

    What sort of increased player base happens when this game becomes know it or else attitude? I think it will diminish and make the game unlike-able and full of bullies!
    The Blood of the Red Dragon

  6. #6
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Once long long long time ago in DDO a feature existed that allowed a Party Leader to dismiss anyone at anytime.....

    Raiding than appeared and said feature was then used to remove people from quests at looting time. Keep in mind the first method of Raid Loot distribution was a guaranteed 2 items and stones that the PL only could touch and distribute. At first the system of rolling and the PL handing the stone to the winner worked out. But then came the abuse of the system; PL handing loot to whom they wanted and using the kick system to remove everyone else.

    The problem is not that this type of system could be abused, it is that it has been abused. Our current recourse for this type of action is the recall and reform method. While it is a pain, it still allows us to be fair. After a few reforms people either quit or are no longer able to join groups and then have to change or leave.

  7. #7
    Community Member lucasphi's Avatar
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    Like I said, just add a Vote kick option, where the majority of players (if not all of them) has to agree to kick someone...

    I don't mind if someone is piking for a legit reason. I don't even care if the reason is not really legit. I just can't stand ppl that goes away without a single word.

    Or even create an AFK button, that party members have to agree or you'll be automatically kicked if did not take any action in like 10 minutes or so (actions including simple stuff like moving your mouse around)... I don't know. There are MANY better ways to deal with ppl being kicked before end chest better then what we have now.

    Ppl were abusing that? Yeah great... they're abusing it now....
    Last edited by lucasphi; 02-06-2013 at 08:50 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Again, this has been brought up a lot of times and each time shot down because of griefing. What is to stop 3 people from kicking someone to make room for their friend...
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    Portals.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucasphi View Post
    Like I said, just add a Vote kick option, where the majority of players (if not all of them) has to agree to kick someone...

    I don't mind if someone is piking for a legit reason. I don't even care if the reason is not really legit. I just can't stand ppl that goes away without a single word.

    Or even create an AFK button, that party members have to agree or you'll be automatically kicked if did not take any action in like 10 minutes or so (actions including simple stuff like moving your mouse around)... I don't know. There are MANY better ways to deal with ppl being kicked before end chest better then what we have now.

    Ppl were abusing that? Yeah great... they're abusing it now....
    I rather see a vote and skip cut scenes then a pontential griefing mechanism. There are so many different way mature players can reform a group and move on - vote to kick becomes one of those tools to abuse. It's a fact and it's just part of some peoples nature. As well meaning as the tool might seem it will most likely be used wrong.

  10. #10
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    A few people keep bringing up this, one of the top ten worse idea for ddo of all time. No! it was in the game before party leader could kick and it was abused and a vote could be by some as well. Let someone help you do the quest kick them before completion and bring a friend in for loot or just to deny them xp and loot. Just ignore them or call out and reform
    Last edited by Uska; 02-06-2013 at 09:40 PM.

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  11. #11
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    I think it's been well covered above that while the OP's frustrations are valid, any solution built into the game would be much worse.
    Someone got it wrong. Everyone expected the Spanish Inquisition because they were required to give 30 days notice, by law.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Sidewaysgts86's Avatar
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    Despite the negatives, im actually all for implementing a vote-kick (and am completely against letting the party leader do it all himself). Could it be abused? Yes, it could be. Would it be? Im sure at some point along the way, it indeed -would- be. Would this be a "common" thing? I strongly doubt it. MOST people arent jerks- selfish maybe, but not jerks. I have a hard time believing this would be "abused" more than it would be "used correctly".

    If the concept of abuse bothers you so much, might i suggest the inclusion of a reporting system? Players (Account based, not charcter base) who recieve too many reports for mis-use of the voting system in too short of a period, from multiple accounts, lose the ability to include their vote, maybe temporarily, or maybe even for good if too many reports keep ticking over.

  13. #13
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    No.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Rian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
    no

    This would let people kick out honest people who had worked for the completion to make room for their friends, and let them pike the completion and loot.
    Then these people would generate a bad reputation for themselves and then respectable guilds and players would decline them from LFMs and such, or players would avoid their LFMs. This happens more often than one thinks, for example a certain individual laid out terms and conditions for the raid, otherwise he would leave. I believe it was "if any more than 150 monster are killed in part 1 of shroud, I will leave." He earned a bad rep and players within the raid did not want to run with him anymore for a while.

    However, I do agree that we are not ready/need a mechanic like this.
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  15. #15
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewaysgts86 View Post
    Despite the negatives, im actually all for implementing a vote-kick (and am completely against letting the party leader do it all himself). Could it be abused? Yes, it could be. Would it be? Im sure at some point along the way, it indeed -would- be. Would this be a "common" thing? I strongly doubt it. MOST people arent jerks- selfish maybe, but not jerks. I have a hard time believing this would be "abused" more than it would be "used correctly".

    If the concept of abuse bothers you so much, might i suggest the inclusion of a reporting system? Players (Account based, not charcter base) who recieve too many reports for mis-use of the voting system in too short of a period, from multiple accounts, lose the ability to include their vote, maybe temporarily, or maybe even for good if too many reports keep ticking over.
    It's not worth a nano second of dev time to even think of adding this system in and your complications dont make it any better and many of your ideas are likely unworkable and like we said we had a system where the leader could and did abuse kicking people so we dont nee dit back in any way shape or form

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  16. #16
    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    Well its been suggested many times before but not changed. Probably because under such a system the tendency for abuse is high, a leader could threaten to kick anyone if they don't surrender their loot to him, want to replace the player with a friend at the end chest, or some other reason listed by others above. However, the idea should not be dismissed out of turn, as it continues to be a valid one. Problem is, no one has quite figured out a way to make it work yet to prevent abuse. Here's some ideas off the top of my head, whether or not they could work to this end who knows.

    -Allow only one kick per quest/raid, no more.

    -Vote must be unanimous.

    -Prevent kicked player's 'slot' from being re-filled; this prevents leader's friends from joining; the slot is permanently unavailable for the remainder of the quest/raid; not even a hireling, panther, or other NPC can fill it, there's a big 'X' scrawled over it or something like this.

    -Leader that kicked displays a mark above their head of a boot, warning symbol, etc for 24 hours, for all to see. In addition, all leader's LFM posts are shaded red to warn players that 'this leader has recently kicked a player'. This could be assessed per account, to prevent players from switching toons to hide it. The penalty could be cumulative, adding an additional 24 hours per kick, diminishing over time.

    Well I can't think of anything else right now. Again I'm not one to completely dismiss an idea just because the particulars of it haven't been figured out yet, but as things stand what we have now is probably better because of the tendency for abuse.

  17. #17
    Community Member Niv-mizzet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrite View Post
    Well its been suggested many times before but not changed. Probably because under such a system the tendency for abuse is high, a leader could threaten to kick anyone if they don't surrender their loot to him, want to replace the player with a friend at the end chest, or some other reason listed by others above. However, the idea should not be dismissed out of turn, as it continues to be a valid one. Problem is, no one has quite figured out a way to make it work yet to prevent abuse. Here's some ideas off the top of my head, whether or not they could work to this end who knows.

    -Allow only one kick per quest/raid, no more.

    -Vote must be unanimous.

    -Prevent kicked player's 'slot' from being re-filled; this prevents leader's friends from joining; the slot is permanently unavailable for the remainder of the quest/raid; not even a hireling, panther, or other NPC can fill it, there's a big 'X' scrawled over it or something like this.

    -Leader that kicked displays a mark above their head of a boot, warning symbol, etc for 24 hours, for all to see. In addition, all leader's LFM posts are shaded red to warn players that 'this leader has recently kicked a player'. This could be assessed per account, to prevent players from switching toons to hide it. The penalty could be cumulative, adding an additional 24 hours per kick, diminishing over time.

    Well I can't think of anything else right now. Again I'm not one to completely dismiss an idea just because the particulars of it haven't been figured out yet, but as things stand what we have now is probably better because of the tendency for abuse.
    +1 for thinking up some creative ideas to help rather than shouting "NO NO NO" like the idea is a spider in the corner of your bedroom. (Or like it was a pvp suggestion.)

  18. #18
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
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    I still support the idea (comes up regularly) of allowing the booting of someone who has gone AFK long enough for the game to mark them AFK.

    For those who have agreed with their party members to pike, it's fine. For those who silently go absent without a word to anyone, once the AFK timer kicks in, the leader gets a notice and can dismiss them from party.

    It wouldn't help for the pikers who are still sitting there and moving from time to time to stay active, but it would help with the ones who just walk away.
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  19. #19
    The Hatchery vVvAiaynAvVv's Avatar
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    Be more responsible about who you acqaint yourself with....if you put up a PUG........sorry......that's what you get for not being selective.

    Giving the benfit of the doubt is all fine and good in theory....but foolhardy in practice.

    /not signed

    Besides...you already have a way to not party witha person like that....add them to your list....if it is that annoying at the moment it is happening drop group and reform......if you have that much time invested in the quest and it's going to be a completion...be grateful you had some people willing to help you.

    I don't think I have ever encountered a PUG where more than one or two people may go afk or not do anything for an extended amount of time....I just simply move on with the rest of the party and we usually complete fine....piker goes on my blacklist.

    pug=pretty unpredictable group.

    Don't PUG=no more or reduced amount of pikers....as even people you know might eventually do it.
    Last edited by vVvAiaynAvVv; 02-07-2013 at 06:30 AM.

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  20. #20
    Community Member lucasphi's Avatar
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    A simple solution would be to create a "piker alert"...

    You would flag someone as piking and if he did not do ANY action within 5 minutes, he would get kicked. And to avoid abuse, you can only flag someone every 10 minutes.

    How can that be abused now? And would help to solve the piking problem (wouldn't fix it though)

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