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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    The thing is that there is a spectrum of SR. It's not that every creature is exactly 0 or exactly 58 SR, there are lots of targets in the 20s and 30s. It's those that people with mid-range spell pen can be extremely effective against with instant kills.

    It's all or nothing against the very highest SR that deathwards itself if you don't land your first cast. Against everyone else, there's plenty of middle ground.
    20 CL + 5 from Destiny: you are already at 25. +2 from Arcane Augmentation IX= 27.

    Now, against a let's say 35 SR, you will succeed on a roll of 8 or more. That 2 that you could have got with Spell Penetration Feat will be pretty much insignificant anyway, you need already a couple of tries already.

  2. #22
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    Howdy,

    I'll share my experience, which may or may not be useful to you. Let me preface it all by saying I mainly solo or play with one or two mates, and rarely go EE content, mostly EH. Don't want to enter argument over spell pen etc., will just outline what I'm doing and enjoying - different people and playstyles will have different views and preferences. So... I'm currently switching back and forth between two Sorcs as my main toons. One is WF and the other Female Drow, both level 25.

    First up, the WF has hands down far more survivability. More hit points and self heal are the main factors.

    But... s/he's (somehow I have a female WF, not sure I meant that!) hit every branch of the ugly tree before hitting my screen and is hard to look at for extended periods of play, whereas my Drow bird, well, yes it's just a game but she's much more pleasant on the eye.

    Practically though... my Drow seems deadlier, but also obviously more squishy. The additional Charisma she has definitely shows. I also specced her differently to my WF as far as savant, although that has now changed...

    Initially I played my WF as a fire savant. Fantastically easy for *most* content, particularly for the new Eveningstar/MOTU content. I originally focussed on fire, but did hit a few places where that stood me in poor stead so respecced to include acid secondary which seeemed a fairly successful combo.

    Then I got my Drow going, levelled as an Electric and went water secondary, and enjoyed that and seems quite viable but did miss a few fire spells. Wanted to play a bit differently though so respecced and decided to dabble in necro as a second secondary (or third) if you like. Trouble is that needs spell pen, so after much internal debate (sounds painful, I know) I respecced feats to include Spell Focus Evo, Greater SF Evo, Epic SF Evo, Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, Epic Spell Pen, Empower, Maximize, Heighten.

    The result? Nice, I have my spell pen normally at 42 (give or take a couple of points depending on which ED and twist I'm running) which works nicely for the mostly EH stuff I run. For EE, nowhere near enough - if I run that I focus on DPS (and rejig ED accordingly).

    I must note that in order to do the above I have dropped a couple of feats like toughness and extend. I miss toughness as I'm just a tad more squishy now, but manage to keep my max hit points around 460, enough for the content I run. I do have 42+ UMD so can self heal with scrolls, which makes life a little easier now but there have been hard times... I don;t miss extend too much and can live with that decision fairly easily.

    So all up, a Drow Air Savant with Water/Necro secondaries (an investment in spell pen and using necro alongside my evo spells) and quite enjoyable to play, if you do need to keep a constant eye on HP's and be ready with scrolls of heal. With the air/necro combo I call her my "Death from Above" build.

    Details-wise...

    I went 7/7/7 on air, 1/1/6 on water. Took all spell pen and charisma enhancements, two levels of improved max, 3 air savant, 2 levels of elven dex, energy of the dragonblooded level 3, and that's my full 80 points spent. Tight, but enough.

    Spell-wise, all the buffs you can (or scroll if you want), including: Rage, False Life, Stoneskin, Haste, Displacement, Greater Heroism, nightshield, protec evil, protec energy, resis energy. All helps with survivability and is needed.

    Otherwise, focused on a mix of evo and necro. I use Finger of Death and Wail quite a lot (otherwise why bother with necro!), Energy Drain, Enervation, Necrotic Ray and Symbol of Death from NEcro school. I use SLA's (loop and lightning bolt) along with chain lightning (LOVE this!) , Polar Ray, Prismatic Spray and Ball Lightning. Ice Storm is my AoE and combine this with any of Web, Dancing Ball and Hold Monster Mass for crowd Control. Often I'll mix in Mind Fog (-10 to will saves, but has a will save to save... can be useful to aid with the CC spells and improved with other debuffs first if needed) and/or Solid Fog (Solid Fog gives enemies a -5 to reflex saves, so you drop that and then spam your evo spells - air has quite afew reflex save ones so this is very helpful). Eladars and Niac's pretty much take care of any single targets that are big, evil and tough (mainly bosses, the odd other if needed). I sometimes switch Mass Suggestion in and out, depending on the content I'm running, can be handy to drop this and either watch your enemies fight each other and allowing you to just carry on.

    Almost finished this long response, but I'll throw something else in. I mentioned my WF Brunhilda of the Apes, the ugliest thing I've seen on my screen since someone sent me a bad link. Well, I respecced her after playing my Drow, and taking into account my previous love of Fire but also the fact my WF seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time sitting on her ass (knocked over), went with an Air Savant build with Fire secondary and the evo trend as already noted (calling this my "Air Incendiary Reaper" build . I won't go into (more) long odes of worship but having delayed blast fireball and firewall back in town has been really really nice. Elec Loop, Chain lightning and DBF take out most groups very very quickly and efficiently and anything thats left can just have a second round. I still have Polar Ray and Niac's BTW - works well enough (still have eladars). I am seriously thinking of redoing my Drow to be Air/Fire and see how she plays... I'd also note this Air/Fire combo worked a little better for me in being able to juggle spells, what was tight at some levels with air/water has different (and more acceptable) trade off points as Air/Fire.

    Post ended up longer than I expected, so hope it's of some value to you and not just a long boring read...

  3. #23
    Community Member Darkstar1996's Avatar
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    Switched out my spells. How are they? Is this build good? And i heard that earth grab is a CON spell? or no
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
    (20 Sorcerer) 
    Hit Points: 182
    Spell Points: 2141 
    BAB: 10\10\15\20
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 6
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength              8                  8                    8
    Dexterity            10                 10                   10
    Constitution         14                 14                   14
    Intelligence         12                 12                   12
    Wisdom                8                  8                    8
    Charisma             20                 25                   28
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               0                  0                    6
    Bluff                 5                  9                    9
    Concentration         6                 25                   25
    Diplomacy             6                 19.5                 19.5
    Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                5                  9                    9
    Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Hide                  0                  0                    0
    Intimidate            5                  9                    9
    Jump                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Listen               -1                 -1                    1
    Move Silently         0                  0                    0
    Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                  1                    1
    Search                1                  1                    3
    Spot                 -1                 -1                    1
    Swim                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Tumble                1                  1                    1
    Use Magic Device      7                 20.5                 20.5
    
    Level 1 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Spell (1): Acid Spray
    Spell (1): Nightshield
    
    
    Level 2 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
    
    
    Level 3 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Spell (1): Jump
    
    
    Level 4 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (2): Blur
    
    
    Level 5 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (2): Web
    
    
    Level 6 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    Spell (3): Acid Blast
    
    
    Level 7 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow
    Spell (3): Frost Lance
    
    
    Level 8 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (4): Acid Rain
    
    
    Level 9 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Conjuration
    Spell (3): Haste
    Spell (4): Stoneskin
    Spell (2): Invisibility
    
    
    Level 10 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (5): Cloudkill
    
    
    Level 11 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (3): Displacement
    Spell (4): Ice Storm
    Spell (5): Niac's Biting Cold
    
    
    Level 12 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    Spell (6): Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
    
    
    Level 13 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (4): Fire Shield
    Spell (5): Cone of Cold
    Spell (6): Acid Fog
    
    
    Level 14 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (7): Finger of Death
    
    
    Level 15 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Spell (5): Protection From Elements
    Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
    Spell (6): Disintegrate
    
    
    Level 16 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (8): Black Dragon Bolt
    
    
    Level 17 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (8): Polar Ray
    Spell (7): Prismatic Spray
    
    
    Level 18 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
    Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
    
    
    Level 19 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (8): Otto's Irresistible Dance
    Spell (9): Power Word: Kill
    
    
    Level 20 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Spell (9): Energy Drain
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Bloodline of Power
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant III
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid II
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid III
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid IV
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid V
    Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VII
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation V
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation VII
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Heightening I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Heightening II

  4. #24
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    20 CL + 5 from Destiny: you are already at 25. +2 from Arcane Augmentation IX= 27.

    Now, against a let's say 35 SR, you will succeed on a roll of 8 or more. That 2 that you could have got with Spell Penetration Feat will be pretty much insignificant anyway, you need already a couple of tries already.
    Yes, but with 8 from 3 SP feats you always succeed. Epic Spell Pen being worth 4 (and the existence of 2 more feat slots) has really changed my opinion of spell pen on sorcerers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar1996
    Switched out my spells. How are they?
    You will get much, much, much more use out of Eladar's Electric Surge than Protection from Elements.

    If you aren't going to take the spell pen feats, I don't see any point in taking the spell pen enhancements. Those 6 AP could instead give you 1/1/1 Electric and Fire.
    And i heard that earth grab is a CON spell? or no
    Sort of. It has two main differences from a spell:
    -as a Spell-Like Ability (SLA) it can be cast in anti-magic fields and have metamagics applied at no cost, but I don't think any apply to Earthgrab anyway
    -rather than using spell level as a factor in DC, it uses sorcerer level, so you get at least 20 instead of 9.
    It does use Con instead of Cha for additional DC bonus.

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