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  1. #1
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Default (rant) So, giving chests after completed quest is greed...

    I'm warning you, I'm angry, and its my rant here.

    I was farming weapons shipment to get bauble, then I'm usually putting LFM after it was done, and pop chests with whoever joined in 5 minutes.

    People gets money, arrowheads, boots mats and vendor trash and I got better chance to pull item.
    But today, it turns out I'm an evil person because of that.

    Few minutes later after I looted and recalled the guy was sending me some tells. I don't know how much, because i squelched him after 1st one.

    I really don't know what to say.
    I'm not forcing anyone to join, I'm not forbiding anyone to complete quest on their own, and farming their baubles. Everyone who joined was usually happy about getting chests without putting much effort into doing something, they seemed to be sad that they can't pass me bauble I'm after.

    I don't know what caused this noob's behaviour.
    Is it trend to want rewards handed to some players with 0 contribution, is just trolling, or maybe wanting something in return for loot is indeed greed? I doubt it, but the world seem to be changing too fast for me to catch up.

    rant off

    I'm going to farm this quest until I get that item. I just don't know should I give out chests to people.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
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    Some people are jerks. Always will be.
    A PUG is like a box of chocolates
    Get people to read your post.

  3. #3

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    Neo Hippies. They don't know jack about squat.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  4. #4
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    What's greedy is putting up a "PASS X OR DON'T JOIN" lfm before you even start the quest. I see way too many of those. Really, you want me to drag your sorry ass through the quest and then have dibs on my loot?

  5. #5
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    So, 5 people you don't even know basically get free loot for zero effort, and that makes *you* "greedy?"

    Wow...I mean...uh...just, "wow."

    A true sign that the world is spiraling down into unhinged idiocy...
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  6. #6
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    You should be ashamed of yourself! How dare you help out people who you have never met before by allowing them to get free loot! You truly are a greedy, greedy person...
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    LFMs like these attract conflict. Your own fault. Further, caps usually is interpreted as being yelled at. I do not like being yelled at instead I pretty much like being asked for something politely.

    I can understand that unwarranted attacks by private messages is jerky, but if that is your LFM in the screenshot then you are as much responsible for giving conflict potential then the other person is crossing lines.

    I cannot share your victim-tag that you might want to earn here. You are responsible for your own LFMs and the consequences that are following according to LFM text.
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  8. #8
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    LFMs like these attract conflict. Your own fault. Further, caps usually is interpreted as being yelled at. I do not like being yelled at instead I pretty much like being asked for something politely.

    I can understand that unwarranted attacks by private messages is jerky, but if that is your LFM in the screenshot then you are as much responsible for giving conflict potential then the other person is crossing lines.

    I cannot share your victim-tag that you might want to earn here. You are responsible for your own LFMs and the consequences that are following according to LFM text.
    I love these types of responses.

    As an analogy...

    ...not too long ago we had a bunch of people speeding down my street. We called the police. An officer came out, and explained to me that they didn't have the resources to place a car there to catch speeders. I told the officer that these speeders were dangerous. We have kids (namely my kids, but others as well) in the neighborhood, and they ride tgheir bikes down that same street. We also have people who go for evening walks that travel down that street as well (no sidewalks).

    I was informed by the police officer that riding a bike on the street or taking a walk down the street is a dangerous activity.

    I replied, "so now I can't walk down my own street, but people can barrel down this street all day, and you won't do anything about it?"

    The officer didn't know how to respond to the question. He didn't know how to respond because his only option was to penalize decent people. Getting up off his a** and actually taking care of the problem in question was too much effort. In short, the officer decided to side with the people BREAKING THE FRICKIN' LAW because actually doing something about the problem required him to do his job.

    The OP did nothing wrong. People joining got free loot, all he wanted was the bauble. He did all the work getting there. And some sanctimonious a** came along and decided in an instant that the OP was greedy.

    What's worse is that you found it appropriate to take the side of the sanctimonious a** beccause, well, it is a lot easier to criticize the OP for opening up the can of worms in the first place. If we listened to people like you more often, no one would put up an LFM at all because SOMEONE might take offense to it. And yeah, there is someone idiotic enough top take offense to LFMs with no restrictions.

    All it takes is someone with a bug up there a** about something, and enough people like you to enable their bad behavior.

    You are a truely "brave" individual.

    As to the parable of the officer and the speeder, I went to the police station, made a frickin' stink. A couple of days later, there was a cruiser sitting right outside my front door. A couple of days after that, no more speeders.

    Gosh. Imagine that.
    Last edited by squishwizzy; 02-02-2013 at 06:17 PM.
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  9. #9
    Community Member cpito's Avatar
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    OP, I have to agree that while what you were doing was, in fact, a kindness, you could have chosen to word it better and left the door open further than normal for this type of reaction. If I see one of your posts up while I'm on, I'll be happy to help and reap the rewards!



    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    cop analogy
    The problem with your analogy is that while the officer absolutely could have handled it better, you're laying the blame for his inaction on the wrong person. You got results when you went to the station because there you were able to actually complain to the RIGHT person. I had a similar problem with a nearby school zone on a major street. I called the station, politely explained the situation, I was directed to the right person to file a complaint with and within a week there was an officer stationed there. (Turns out it was a big problem that they eventually solved by parking an old cop car across the street from the school).
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye." - Miss Piggy
    Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back.~ Cpt. Mal Reynolds
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  10. #10
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    I love these types of responses.

    As an analogy...

    ...not too long ago we had a bunch of people speeding down my street. We called the police. An officer came out, and explained to me that they didn't have the resources to place a car there to catch speeders. I told the officer that these speeders were dangerous. We have kids (namely my kids, but others as well) in the neighborhood, and they ride tgheir bikes down that same street. We also have people who go for evening walks that travel down that street as well (no sidewalks).

    I was informed by the police officer that riding a bike on the street or taking a walk down the street is a dangerous activity.

    I replied, "so now I can't walk down my own street, but people can barrel down this street all day, and you won't do anything about it?"

    The officer didn't know how to respond to the question. He didn't know how to respond because his only option was to penalize decent people. Getting up off his a** and actually taking care of the problem in question was too much effort. In short, the officer decided to side with the people BREAKING THE FRICKIN' LAW because actually doing something about the problem required him to do his job.
    And right there is why your analogy isn't useful.

    No one on either side is breaking the law or endangering anyone.

    Both sides are being rude. Neither side is right. Everyone can go home now and work on better analogies for the next rant.

  11. #11
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    And right there is why your analogy isn't useful.

    No one on either side is breaking the law or endangering anyone.

    Both sides are being rude. Neither side is right. Everyone can go home now and work on better analogies for the next rant.
    Someone could do something completely lawful that people would dislike.
    Someone could do something completely illegal that would earn them praise.

    Since we are in a D&D(ish) forum it's good to remember that lawful/unlawful does not equate to good/bad choices necessarily.

    Someone can be a complete jerk within the rules of the game and still be a jerk. One cannot hide behind the direct word of the terms of service and claim that since no rules were violated, that they aren't a horrible person. This could apply to both sides of this particular situation. You claim both sides are being rude and neither side is right, but it's all relative depending on your perspective. Someone can be rude in one person's opinion, but be completely justified and even polite to another person from their perspective. You just can't please everyone all the time, but you can try your best to please most of the people most of the time.
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  12. #12
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    And right there is why your analogy isn't useful.

    No one on either side is breaking the law or endangering anyone.

    Both sides are being rude. Neither side is right. Everyone can go home now and work on better analogies for the next rant.
    Wrong.

    Because in both situations, someone had to be an enabler for bad behavior. Breaking the law in a civil society is, by definition, bad behavior.

    Period.

    No matter how you slice it, it is still baloney.
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  13. #13
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    Wrong.

    Because in both situations, someone had to be an enabler for bad behavior. Breaking the law in a civil society is, by definition, bad behavior.

    Period.

    No matter how you slice it, it is still baloney.
    Bad behavior is not the same as breaking the law and endangering the safety and lives of families in the neighborhood.

    Complaining on the forums is not the same as going to the police.

    It's just a terrible analogy. If you want to come up with an analogy that actually does work, that's fine. But it's not the one you posted.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    LFMs like these attract conflict. Your own fault. Further, caps usually is interpreted as being yelled at. I do not like being yelled at instead I pretty much like being asked for something politely.

    I can understand that unwarranted attacks by private messages is jerky, but if that is your LFM in the screenshot then you are as much responsible for giving conflict potential then the other person is crossing lines.

    I cannot share your victim-tag that you might want to earn here. You are responsible for your own LFMs and the consequences that are following according to LFM text.
    I can't agree with your statement. What actually causes the most conflict is unclear lfm's that don't make it crystal clear what you want. For example, there was a heated debate about a post re: "please help me farm x" lfms, with 50% of responders saying that means "if you get x, you are passing it over, or you are a ******" and 50% of responders saying running the quest is helping, you aren't agreeing to pass over the item.

    In this case, all caps might be a little rude but it gets the point across. If you join the lfm, you are agreeing to the conditions in it. If you don't like the conditions, don't join. And because the lfm is so clear (in maybe a slightly rude way), you can't take the position "Oh, I didn't realize".

    Calling someone greedy because they put up a clear lfm is not constructive and not fair.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    but if that is your LFM in the screenshot then you are as much responsible for giving conflict potential then the other person is crossing lines.
    No, that's just a stupid thing to say or think. There is a difference between potential and realization. You should know that.

  16. #16
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    First of all, thanks for all replies.
    I would like to commend some posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    LFMs like these attract conflict. Your own fault. Further, caps usually is interpreted as being yelled at. I do not like being yelled at instead I pretty much like being asked for something politely.

    I can understand that unwarranted attacks by private messages is jerky, but if that is your LFM in the screenshot then you are as much responsible for giving conflict potential then the other person is crossing lines.

    I cannot share your victim-tag that you might want to earn here. You are responsible for your own LFMs and the consequences that are following according to LFM text.
    I don't care for victim tag, compassion or any similiar thing. When posting this thread I was just angry, and had to vent it somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Have you considered your wording in your lfm? When I used to put up lfm's in hopes of pulling a bauble I always phrased them similar to, "Please help me pull a bauble" or "Trying to pull the bauble, any help appreciated."

    I've found that lfm's with this type of phrasing attract little to no hostile tells. Now, if I hadn't had a few occasions where that item dropped and was looted by a non blue bar I'd still be doing them. These days I just ask my guildies for help.
    Well, with limited space in LFM text I want to be as strict as possible. I don't want random person I don't know to come and loot item I'm after, especially after I completed this quest. I want to be clearly understood, with messege saying that if you join, you must give bauble. Now, add masses of people who simply don't read LFMs, and messages with caps are easier to spot, and kind of readed automatically.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomatt72 View Post
    A few years ago I was on my fighter and joined one of these groups and the bauble popped for me, but as soon as I clicked the chest the group leader started screaming about how I HAVE to give it to him, so I looted it left the quest and sold it to junk vender, all the while I was telling him how much I was getting for it. hey you can put up what ever you want but i guarantee you that if I joined and got the Bauble I would keep it and tell you where you can put your little "rule"
    You surely must don't care about your characters' reputation on your server. Even if this is not allowed on forums, the news spreads, and you might suddenly find yourself on DNG list of many people, and maybe even entire guilds. Enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by k0211312d View Post
    So, the point is... squelch turbokrasnal? what a brazenface.
    Yes, go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by THAC0 View Post
    Have you considered Multiboxing other accounts and bringing those into the quest to avoid such sillyness?

    Just a thought. Works great for me.

    T.
    My poor old computer would probably explode, but indeed idea is great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalari View Post
    I never understood that mentality either OP but its why when I farm weapons shipment I tend to just let it be known in guild "Free chest" I wish I had it in me to be nice enough to invite the general public to that chest but people aren't as nice about you doing a nice thing as they should be. Its always some dope out there who think your just using others (even though your doing all the work in the damn quest and they are getting free loot) lol its why my ranger still has 4 baubles sitting in her TR cache to
    Unfortunatelly, my guild seems to consider everything which won't give their TRs XP a waste of time, so I have to use the LFM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    As one that has solo'd this quest many times on different characters and then put up an LFM for loot assistance I will throw in my 2cp for advice on how to avoid this situation

    1. LFM wording - Don't use phrasing that appears to be demanding - Comments like "Yes I'm still looking for my bauble" etc. work better. I've had many Blue bars join me that were willing to pass this item in exchange for a little XP and 3 chests. It is the wording that draws fire.
    Explained couple lines higher.
    2. You responded to the tell - Don't acknowledge the person, you also already know not to accept them into your group they even gave you the name of the person to Decline. Best way to avoid an argument is to not participate. Everyone is free to think the way they want. But you are also free to ignore them.
    You're right.
    3. Don't get your drawers in a bunch if someone joins and takes the loot you were after, there were 4 others in your group at the time to witness them being a cad. Also keep in mind you have already proven you can do this, and while it sucks to have it happen, you get to try again.
    I can do quest 500 times, its not any harder, but I don't want to. I don't know what would I do if someone would break rules of group, but I'm sure I wouldn't just shut up.
    4. Don't dwell on the "I'm doing them a favor" aspect. It's a wash because your asking them to do you a solid.
    I bellive that both puggers and me are doing each other a favor. I'm grateful for all that joins and wish to help.
    5. Consider running the quest a few more times even after you pull a bauble - It is a way to show your appreciation to the community for their help
    True, but this seems to be so far in future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    DON"T LISTEN TO HIM!!!!!? !!!!! If you want a bauble and have run Weapons Shipment, send a /tell to Llewndyn, I will give you mine if it drops. Heck, just for the carp you had to put up with in this very thread, I will help you fight through the quest and pass it at the end. Just let me know, but I have run with you before and your runs are usually pretty smooth, very little corn in them at all... what were we talking about?

    Anyway, yep. Hit me up yo.
    I quoted just this one user, but I wish to adress all similiar posts:
    Thank you. Fact that there are people that would gladly help means a lot to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by vVvAiaynAvVv View Post


    p.s. Clerics can't cure stupid I agree...but I sure wish they would sell something in the store that does.
    I don't think any stupid would 'waste' their TP on this item.

    Quote Originally Posted by El_Magico_Gonzalez View Post
    ALT+E for trip?

    Why?
    I got various actions on ALT + keys surrounding WSAD, for example, ALT+Q is featherfall, ALT+R is CCW, ALT+E is as you noticed, trip, and ALT+F is fascinate. I use them, because its much easier and faster than using mouse or pressing 8.

  17. #17
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    Default Sure.

    It's already done.
    Identify myself, I'm Icearrow on same server - ghallanda.

    Thus, It seems you couldn't recognize one thing.
    There is united private guild/raid channel on ghallanda and a lot of private channel.
    Gratz. You're one of infamous since you had posted this thread.

    For END GAME GUILD? well... good luck, there is no guild which one accept greedy and brazenface guy.
    Last edited by k0211312d; 02-12-2013 at 05:14 PM.

  18. #18
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default Thanks for that

    Quote Originally Posted by k0211312d View Post
    It's already done.
    Identify myself, I'm Icearrow on same server - ghallanda.

    Thus, It seems you couldn't recognize one thing.
    There is united private guild/raid channel on ghallanda and a lot of private channel.
    Gratz. You're one of infamous since you had posted this thread.

    For END GAME GUILD? well... good luck, there is no guild which one accept greedy and brazenface guy.
    No idea what you're trying to say up there, but you saved me the trouble of trying to find out your toon name on Ghallanda

    He shouldn't have to go to a "united private guild/raid channel on ghallanda and a lot of private channel" to get decent people who will read your LFM and come in and get their FREE LOOT and pass you the item YOU AND ONLY YOU worked for.

    To whomever said the people joining and clicking on the chest are somehow doing Vellrad a favor, I respectfully disagree. Vellrad ran the quest alone. None of those people helped him. They don't deserve ANY of the loot, because they did no work for it. That's why there are no quests in the game where you zone in, walk down a hallway, and open a chest to get an LDS. If this is what happened, then yes, he would need to ask a little nicer. For a FREE completion and FREE vendor loot the LEAST you can do is pass him the item he ran the quest for.

    Vellrad was already infamous.... as one of the better players on the server. His groups almost always complete with little to no trouble, and he is MORE than a competent player whom I respect and would be more inclined to side with and help as he's helped me numerous times, probably without knowing it (I was soul stone number 3 on the grassy knoll in Ritual Sacrifice, thanks for the bacon in the backpack!)

    Vellrad is not the greedy one. The greedy "brazenface guy" is the tool who joins, saunters to the end chest unmolested by orthons and devils, opens a chest that he EXPLICITY JOINED THE LFM TO HAND OVER, and then keeps it. 11 out of 10 people agree, given the two the one getting blacklisted would not be Vellrad
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandhaer View Post
    Nerf Happiness

  19. #19
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    Default Should I laugh at this part?

    None of those people helped him. They don't deserve ANY of the loot, because they did no work for it.
    Vellrad was already infamous.... as one of the better players on the server.

    Then, Don't invite another user and Don't let them waste their time.
    Run on soloing mode, loot his own portion.
    There is no right to claim another user's loot in force[Bauble? Someone know it's useful for their character but the others not. Trickery play possum nuts]

    If he run for solo and took own loot, there is no problem.
    But not for this situation.
    Invitation like this is not a good purpose, just satisfy his(turbokransnel whatever) own greed.

    Is it enough for logicless sophist?
    Last edited by k0211312d; 02-13-2013 at 09:46 PM. Reason: rant rant rant for dumbs

  20. #20
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    Default Who care about you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    No idea what you're trying to say up there, but you saved me the trouble of trying to find out your toon name on Ghallanda

    He shouldn't have to go to a "united private guild/raid channel on ghallanda and a lot of private channel" to get decent people who will read your LFM and come in and get their FREE LOOT and pass you the item YOU AND ONLY YOU worked for.

    To whomever said the people joining and clicking on the chest are somehow doing Vellrad a favor, I respectfully disagree. Vellrad ran the quest alone. None of those people helped him. They don't deserve ANY of the loot, because they did no work for it. That's why there are no quests in the game where you zone in, walk down a hallway, and open a chest to get an LDS. If this is what happened, then yes, he would need to ask a little nicer. For a FREE completion and FREE vendor loot the LEAST you can do is pass him the item he ran the quest for.

    Vellrad was already infamous.... as one of the better players on the server. His groups almost always complete with little to no trouble, and he is MORE than a competent player whom I respect and would be more inclined to side with and help as he's helped me numerous times, probably without knowing it (I was soul stone number 3 on the grassy knoll in Ritual Sacrifice, thanks for the bacon in the backpack!)

    Vellrad is not the greedy one. The greedy "brazenface guy" is the tool who joins, saunters to the end chest unmolested by orthons and devils, opens a chest that he EXPLICITY JOINED THE LFM TO HAND OVER, and then keeps it. 11 out of 10 people agree, given the two the one getting blacklisted would not be Vellrad
    Go for it. Stupid logicless sophist.

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