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  1. #1
    Community Member Xaxx's Avatar
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    Default Lookin for a bit of info on shiradi sorc

    Ok so been catchin people talking here and there about shiradi sorc on the forums on and off but yet still havent really run into many on my server. I've been lookin for something to do with my wf sorc and I figured what the heck I might check it out. (Possibly the 18 sorc/2 pally build idea i saw on another thread)

    Yet I have some doubts on the viability of the build in the end. Im just not seeing in the base math shiradi being the EE killer some people seem to claim. So I figured I'd see if anyone who ran one wanted to give me the general low down.

    Spell wise it seems its alot of unmetad magic missle/chain missles along with firewall or ice storm and solidfog/cloud kill and throw in meteor swarm all for the amount of proc possibilities by all of them.

    Seems force spec is the want for all this, but Im not sure why full force spec when the force spells your throwing are unmeta'd (unless its specifically for the teir 5 force damage proc)

    Air savant for sorc seems to be the popular choice because of electric loop, yet doesnt fire and earth fall into that also for scorch/fireball is a multi mob aoe, and earth has acid ball multi mob and acid arrow for the dot aspect of it.

    Metas affecting shiradi procs.... it seems that they do but if they're off on the cast of the spell will they affect the shiradi procs if they're on yet you just have them turned off for the casting of that spell.

    Basically I'm just lookin for general running info outside of stated above, maybe some clairty on the above. I'm gonna start playing around with it sometime soon, yet still wanted to see what info surfaced.

    So if I'm missing something, or stated something that is obviously wrong, by all means share it with me. If theres another definitive thread on shriadi for sorc/wiz that I missed on my forum search, then by all means appologies for wasting peoples time and forum space. (also if there is please point it out to me )

  2. #2
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    you want force spec because shiradi applies spellpower to the various procs provided they proc from a spell. from what i understand (i haven't tried this personally), the procs use the same type of spellpower as the spell that procs them.

    you probably want air savant because it gives you immunity to most knockdown and wings, and who cares about the other stuff (well, ok, i doubt anyone will be sad about getting those nukes, but the survival stuff is where it's at, i'm guessing; nobody likes to be trip-spammed to death when they know if they were standing they could just hit reconstruct, wing away, and be just fine).

    also, with the new spellpower changes, metamagic no longer contributes as much damage as before. +150% is +150% of the base amount, not the amount modified by enhancements and gear... so it's not nearly as large of a difference.

  3. #3
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxx View Post
    So if I'm missing something, or stated something that is obviously wrong, by all means share it with me. If theres another definitive thread on shriadi for sorc/wiz that I missed on my forum search, then by all means appologies for wasting peoples time and forum space. (also if there is please point it out to me )
    You're not going to understand how it works until you try it, so just try it.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=403278
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4858501

  4. #4
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    They are also quite accomplished in EE, as you can see through the link in my signature. It's the most powerful solo character I have.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  5. #5
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Here's a pic of me soloing EE tbf a few days ago. Not a tough quest by any measure, but just something I had a screenshot of.

    Pic

    The reason shiradi is so good (imo) is not because of uber DPS, but because of efficient DPS. All casters can output huge burst DPS, but only shiradi can do so while maintaining an SP bar. For 3 SP, you can output more damage than polar ray. It's a gimmick, but a really powerful one.



    PS: the FVS is a dual box

  6. #6
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Here's a pic of me soloing EE tbf a few days ago. Not a tough quest by any measure, but just something I had a screenshot of.

    Pic

    The reason shiradi is so good (imo) is not because of uber DPS, but because of efficient DPS. All casters can output huge burst DPS, but only shiradi can do so while maintaining an SP bar. For 3 SP, you can output more damage than polar ray. It's a gimmick, but a really powerful one.



    PS: the FVS is a dual box
    Quoted and bolded for emphasis.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  7. #7
    Community Member Xaxx's Avatar
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    Thx for the links and pics, kinda peaks my interest again. Finished my guys eds today, gonna fire him up with build sometime this week and see how it goes. Really need to tear his gear down and rebuild it (though with egh a few weeks out this is probably the most adventageous time to do something like that.)

    force missle.. yes no? this seems to be a differing opinion in the posts

    thx again guys, see the forums can be helpful

  8. #8
    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    Honestly.. I wouldn't bother, unless you're already specced and ready to go with it.

    Lets see, a 1-click level 3 chain missile that can keep a whole room of epic elite mobs paralyzed at a whim? This has the nerf bat written all over it.. its not a question of if its coming, but when. Still, you may be able to squeeze some use out of it until then.

    At some point I imagine the entire Shiradi tree will be re-evaluated to either restrict spells, or exclude them altogether. That along with the current golden boy monk/aa/shiradi build, but that's left for another discussion.

  9. #9
    Community Member BurningDownTheHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrite View Post
    Honestly.. I wouldn't bother, unless you're already specced and ready to go with it.

    Lets see, a 1-click level 3 chain missile that can keep a whole room of epic elite mobs paralyzed at a whim? This has the nerf bat written all over it.. its not a question of if its coming, but when. Still, you may be able to squeeze some use out of it until then.

    At some point I imagine the entire Shiradi tree will be re-evaluated to either restrict spells, or exclude them altogether. That along with the current golden boy monk/aa/shiradi build, but that's left for another discussion.
    That's the whole point, isn't it?
    You squeeze what fun you can from a build until they nerf it and then you move on to something they haven't gotten around to nerfing yet.

    Oh, and as someone who happens to have a Shiradi sorc I will add that one chain missile paralyzing an entire room full of mobs is rare. Happens, but rare. Definitely not the over powered part of this package.
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  10. #10
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    Can anyone post some screenshots of damage output and/or provide a rough analysis? I leveled Shiradi high enough on my PM to get double rainbow and found myself basically unimpressed, not sure what I was missing. But then since I was just leveling an off-destiny I wasn't building around it, which could be the problem. For me, energy burst was a room clearer on EH, and double rainbow was more of a "is anything actually proc'ing? I can't tell", which fit with a brief numbers analysis of the 7% proc rates *shrug*.

  11. #11
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    Personally i think the wizard is a bit better. Its much easier to zerg to red and drag mobs then nuke them down with a few spells. Both builds work, I just prefer the wizard for better zerging. Either build tho you def wanna go force specced. Chain missle, meteor swarm, and magic missle are your bestest friends.
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  12. #12
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inouk View Post
    Can anyone post some screenshots of damage output and/or provide a rough analysis? I leveled Shiradi high enough on my PM to get double rainbow and found myself basically unimpressed, not sure what I was missing. But then since I was just leveling an off-destiny I wasn't building around it, which could be the problem. For me, energy burst was a room clearer on EH, and double rainbow was more of a "is anything actually proc'ing? I can't tell", which fit with a brief numbers analysis of the 7% proc rates *shrug*.
    On EH, it's hard to compete with Energy Burst (I actually keep it twisted in on my sorc)...on EE, double rainbow is just so efficient with its damage (which is a problem you can otherwise run into as a DPS sorc - especially as Shiradi has built-in CC while DI doesn't) that it's hard to compare with it.

    As for screenshots, I can do one better: a couple people have posted videos on youtube, such as this one. Sadly, I can't make a video myself, but it's really hard for a screenshot to do justice to this ability.
    Last edited by WruntJunior; 02-03-2013 at 10:48 AM.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    On EH, it's hard to compete with Energy Burst (I actually keep it twisted in on my sorc)...on EE, double rainbow is just so efficient with its damage (which is a problem you can otherwise run into as a DPS sorc - especially as Shiradi has built-in CC while DI doesn't) that it's hard to compare with it.

    As for screenshots, I can do one better: a couple people have posted videos on youtube, such as this one. Sadly, I can't make a video myself, but it's really hard for a screenshot to do justice to this ability.
    Was hoping for screen shot because in video it's just to hard to track what's what. You can't tell how many persistent spells are going, how many procs you get from each spell from double rainbow, etc. If you blew up the video it would help a bit (can't do that here as it loses too much focus), but even so this guy is in a 4 man group (at least one other is with him there) so it's hard to say how much of the damage is him.

    I guess what I'm after is what would you *normally* get from say, one magic missile spell? One chain missile?

    *I know it's fairly random, looking for an average here*

  14. #14
    Community Member Maxallu's Avatar
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    Yes lease, someone quantify this please.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxallu View Post
    Yes lease, someone quantify this please.
    My math-fu is weak, but i suspect you're not going to be able to quantify this. Shiradi works entirely off of procs and sometimes the number gods smile at you, and other times .... IMO, shiradi is a solid build for EE content. The random procs happen often enough to make it worthwhile vs the gobs of hp EE mobs have. On EH or lower, i think draconic is a better choice.

    That's generally how i run my air savant and it works reasonably well. I sacrificed a couple of spell slots for magic/chain misslel which really only get used in shiradi. It's not the end of the world.

  16. #16
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxallu View Post
    Yes lease, someone quantify this please.
    Magic Missile with shiradi

    100% 1d2 + 3 Base
    7% 10d10 Favorable Winds
    7% 2d100 Fey Power
    7% 2d10 Prism
    7% 1d100 Rainbow

    Average = 135.375
    Plus
    7% <Random Effect> Double Rainbow
    7% <Stun> Nerve Venom


    Polar ray with draconic
    30d3 + 90 = 150

    So magic missile under shiradi does equivalent damage to polar ray, stuns, is on a 1.5s timer and costs a fraction of the SP.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Magic Missile with shiradi

    100% 1d2 + 3 Base
    7% 10d10 Favorable Winds
    7% 2d100 Fey Power
    7% 2d10 Prism
    7% 1d100 Rainbow

    Average = 135.375
    Plus
    7% <Random Effect> Double Rainbow
    7% <Stun> Nerve Venom


    Polar ray with draconic
    30d3 + 90 = 150

    So magic missile under shiradi does equivalent damage to polar ray, stuns, is on a 1.5s timer and costs a fraction of the SP.
    Perhaps I'm misreading this.
    100% 1d2 + 3 Base = 4.5
    7% 10d10 Favorable Winds = 3.85
    7% 2d100 Fey Power = 7.07
    7% 2d10 Prism = .77
    7% 1d100 Rainbow = 3.535

    Average would then = 19.725 * 5 = 98.625
    Are the proc's affected by spell power? Are they affected by arcane lore? If not then we're looking at un-meta'd magic missile + 76.125 damage in procs, which in no way approaches the 900ish of polar ray with metas (though for a fraction of the cost + possible stun + random effect). If it does benefit from spell power then at least you are getting in the *3.2 (no emp or max) for 315.6 damage... which is slow, but outstanding damage/sp. if the MM gets blocked by shield do the shiradi procs still go off?

  18. #18
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    I really hope devs don't nerf Shiradi on casters. a) because random is fun, b) because some dude Sorc spamming a dragon from a perch is not representative of all eE play.

    That said, this build has been bragged/talked about on the forums enough now I guess it's inevitable. *snif* Let's see what people use for their achievements next and see how long it takes for the nerf calls to come. Prediction: not long.

    (I'm with Teth, I think Wizard is preferable, mainly because of the AM SLAs.)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inouk View Post
    Are the proc's affected by spell power? Are they affected by arcane lore?
    As others have said, you can see when it's played. The metas affect the procs off the spell they come from, as far as I can tell. So if your MM crits, the resultant proc crits, and inherits the SpPow/Lore from it's parent spell.

    Which is why sometimes you get a ~6k light damage crit from an MM.

    That said... some of the other EDs pump out silly damage too. I still dispute Shiradi stands out as over the top DPS. It's not like you get a light proc and a crit every other spell tick.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimkj View Post
    As others have said, you can see when it's played. The metas affect the procs off the spell they come from, as far as I can tell. So if your MM crits, the resultant proc crits, and inherits the SpPow/Lore from it's parent spell.

    Which is why sometimes you get a ~6k light damage crit from an MM.

    That said... some of the other EDs pump out silly damage too. I still dispute Shiradi stands out as over the top DPS. It's not like you get a light proc and a crit every other spell tick.
    Agreed. It takes a lot of shiradi MM's to equal the 3-15k AoE damage you can do with a single 20 sp energy burst, not to mention dragon breath and vortex. But all those have reflex saves *shrug*.

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