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  1. #1
    Community Member lucasphi's Avatar
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    Default Give WF some love

    Can anyone please explain to me why to WF gotta get a ridiculous docent that can be upgrade to be a part of the new content sets?

    I'm a WF monk and I'd like to get the same buffs as Vestiments of the Sun Soul gives. Not some lame docent with almost the same properties you can craft with cannith.... And that is worth for every other piece of armor set out there... All of them are better then the docent. Is WF really that stronger that their items need to be weaker? Cause I've been playing one and it does not seem like it...

    Please sign if you agree... Let's try to get Turbine attention... I don't want buffs.. I just want what everyone else got...

  2. #2
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    You're the one that chose Warforged. It is known that they use docents, and there isn't always an identical docent as there are to other armors. Your suggestion is too biased just for warforged monks. The system that is in place is decent enough.

    The alternative is that they make a docent for every single armor in the content. That would just bring people to complain how warforged can wear all types of armor in a docent form, yet my monk can't wear and outfit with the same properties as the Purple Dragon's plate armor.

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  3. #3
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    You're a half year late. This discussion already took place during U14 preview. The system in place now is the result.
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  4. #4
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    I would like to see more named docents, BUT I would prefer they not all just be docent versions of other armor.

    So while I agree that WF need some docent lovin' I do not support the OP's request.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    I would like to see more named docents, BUT I would prefer they not all just be docent versions of other armor.

    So while I agree that WF need some docent lovin' I do not support the OP's request.
    This.

    Yes, WF could use a little love, but making every named armor available as a docent would defeat the point of having both armors and docents.

    Comparable power, sure, and a decent range of choices of docents. But not just copies of armors.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  6. #6
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Also WF don't exist in Faerun so having docents even drop there has always puzzled, even slightly bothered me.

    I mean from a gameplay stand point I get it but if they want to make this misguided venture into Faerun then it breaks the uniqueness and immersion when this happens.

    It's like if you found out that Elminster was really a street mime who moonlighted as a kids party magician.

    That, along with other compromises, really just makes Faerun feel like .. ohh look someone inserted Generic Fantasyland Architectue into Eberron.


    Now that said WF do need some love back. Not having every armor as a docent made some sense when they had all their immunites. Now they get poisoned, diseased and held nearlyl as badly as everyone else. Oh yeah and they take etra damage from several montsers and spells to boot.

    You want CON go Dwarf not WF
    You want self healing go PM / Half-Elf not WF
    You want THF monster go Half-Orc not WF

    Honestly I don't see where WF are all that advantageous. I TR'd my Arty to Human, my Barb to H-Orc and my pally will get out of WF PDQ if I ever play him again (haven't played that toon in close to a year.. boring pally is boring LOL)

    The only toon I have that is WF and likely to stay that way is by CC based Archmage. Biobreaker Number Two will remain WF and probably stay that way through any TR's but that is really because it's the only build where WF stand on par or above the other races.

    For any other class with the possible exception of a non-crafter Arty WF are a vastly inferior choice.


  7. #7
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    /signed

    I don't think that the OP is asking for all armor to be docents or vice versa. I think he's asking that the few armors that are mandatory parts of a set with an important set bonus have equivalents.

    A WF monk can make the Stone Heart (if they have 375 PDK Favor) or the Ancient gemstone docent part of the sun soul set, but neither docent fits in the set.

    I have the same issue for my WF monk. I have both the ancient gemstone and the most appopriate Stone Heart and I could make it part of the set. But the resulting overall gear set is worse than the one I have now which is built around a level 16 Dragon Touched docent with healing amp.

    The Dev's added the Stone Heart to the list at the last second, so that there would be an option. But it's not a good option.

  8. #8
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    <snip>
    ... and held ...
    <snip>
    Held? None of my warforged are getting held (and I operate a large number of WF). Unless you mean Earthgrab?
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  9. #9
    Community Member Loriac's Avatar
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    In the case of the various eveningstar sets, it would have been entirely possible for the ancient gemstone to have had more properties changed when it was attuned to a particular faction, so that it reflected the set theme. Sadly the devs didn't do this, so WF don't get nearly the utility from the sets as fleshies.

    The monk set has a lot of redundancy for a WF; the belt has +7 con anyway, so the docent is more or less a wasted slot. If you do grind out the PDK favor, then you could attune the stone heart to get you to a position more or less comparable with what other races had 375 favour and 3-5 levels earlier.

    From a more general perspective, there is now (imo) only one compelling reason to ever pick WF as a race: if your build provides access to blue bar reconstruct, WF may (note, only *may*) be a decent option, usually 2nd behind the best fleshie race for that particular build.

    Its a bit sad really, as warforged are an iconic element of the eberron setting, yet their DDO representation is completely at odds with the PnP background materials.

  10. #10
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Earthgrab is for sure what I was getting at. Granted I get why that was taken away, and was something they were never intended to be immune to, but that is something that was taken away after years of not affecting War Forged.

    Basically they went from a race that had several advantages to offset their disadvantages and viable for any class to a race that has very VERY few advantages to offset them and only really viable in a select few classes and generally only a subset of builds even in those.


  11. #11
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loriac View Post
    The monk set has a lot of redundancy for a WF; the belt has +7 con anyway, so the docent is more or less a wasted slot. If you do grind out the PDK favor, then you could attune the stone heart to get you to a position more or less comparable with what other races had 375 favour and 3-5 levels earlier...
    The Sun Soul bracers have Wis 7 on them, so there's significant redundancy with the Stone Heart as well. If the Stoneheart dropped with insightful 3 Wis like it did for a while on Lammania, it would be possible to get enough out of the Stone heart to make a gear set around it. But with the Wis nearly duplicated on the bracers, its not worth tieing up the armor slot for what it gives. I've got the WIS 8 Stone heart and could make it part of the sun soul set, but the way it is, its still inferior to good old DT. Especially annoying when you compare what the Stone Heart gives compared to the Ins 3 Wis Caparison.
    Last edited by TPICKRELL; 01-30-2013 at 11:29 AM.

  12. #12

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    Warforged need a free bonus feat at creation, for which they have to select their body type. Composite, mithral, or adamantine.
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  13. #13
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    They need their PRR and MDB fixed as well.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Loriac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPICKRELL View Post
    The Sun Soul bracers have Wis 7 on them, so there's significant redundancy with the Stone Heart as well. If the Stoneheart dropped with insightful 3 Wis like it did for a while on Lammania, it would be possible to get enough out of the Stone heart to make a gear set around it. But with the Wis nearly duplicated on the bracers, its not worth tieing up the armor slot for what it gives. I've got the WIS 8 Stone heart and could make it part of the sun soul set, but the way it is, its still inferior to good old DT. Especially annoying when you compare what the Stone Heart gives compared to the Ins 3 Wis Caparison.
    The stone heart comes in all 6 flavors (str, dex, con, int, wis and cha) so you can get e.g. a +8dex version that will complement the +con and +wis from the other items in the set.

    The ancient gemstone by contrast only comes in the +7 con version, so its always wasted.

  15. #15
    Community Member Loriac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    They need their PRR and MDB fixed as well.
    In my view, WF should get a flat, stacking 10 PRR regardless of body type chosen. Then in mithral body they'd have bab/2+10 (flat PRR) and in adamantine they'd have bab +10 (flat)

    The 10PRR would represent the fact that they're made of stone and wood and therefore inherently harder to damage physically than flesh and bone.

    This wouldn't even be particularly game-breaking; the effective increase would fall off for a high PRR build, whilst low PRR builds / unarmored builds would have a noticeable benefit in being WF.


    On MDB, I think it should be changed so that if you have mithral body, you start with 5 MDB and that bonus increases by 2 per 5 levels, meaning that at level 25 you'd have 15 MDB and dodge cap.

  16. #16
    Community Member Hordo's Avatar
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    Here is what you need...




    ...to give your warforge some love all by yourself.
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  17. #17
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loriac View Post
    The stone heart comes in all 6 flavors (str, dex, con, int, wis and cha) so you can get e.g. a +8dex version that will complement the +con and +wis from the other items in the set.

    The ancient gemstone by contrast only comes in the +7 con version, so its always wasted.
    True.

    I agree that Stone Heart is a better choice than the Ancient Gemstone, just don't think that it is comparable to what fleshies can get.

    Yes I can get Dex 8 or Cha 8 on it, but neither stat is as useful as Wis (and both are and will likely continue to be slotted in augment slots at +6(now) or +7(after U17) in my gear set). Str 7 is already covered by the PDK gloves and INT isn't worth a permanent slot on any of my pure monks. I tried really hard to make a gear set around it, but it just didn't work without an ins 3 Wis version.

  18. #18
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    Basically they went from a race that had several advantages to offset their disadvantages and viable for any class to a race that has very VERY few advantages to offset them and only really viable in a select few classes and generally only a subset of builds even in those.
    With the change to the Healer's Friend Enhancement from 2/4/6 to 1/2/3, I believe your stance to be a matter of opinion.

    I still find Warforged to be strong contenders in most roles. Certainly not the best in every role, or even second best in most roles, but still pretty good and providing some rather unique advantages. I find the following benefits:

    • Immunity to Energy Drain effects
    • Half Damage from Negative Energy
    • Immunity to Sleep/Nausea (I have heard some people saying they get nausea'd as a WF, but I haven't)
    • Immunity to Fatigue/Exhaustion
    • Immunity to Paralysis (Hold Person/Monster) and Transmuting (Flesh to Stone) effects
    • Be healed by Repair spells in addition to Curative spells

    to outweigh the following penalties:

    • -20% Positive Energy
    • 6 AP automatically spoken for
    • A feat for armor
    • Static Max Dex based on the Armor Feat

    Just my personal opinion, though. In my mind, the comparison is "Would I take a feat on my fleshy that did all that?" And most of the time the answer is yes. My personal exceptions are Barbarians and Paladins.


    Disclaimer: Every Warforged not capable of self-healing through Repair spells MUST incorporate at least +20% and +30% Healing Amp items. Otherwise, they're just being inconsiderate and wasteful of resources.



    Sorry for the tangent. I do agree with the OP, though.
    Last edited by Alavatar; 01-30-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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  19. #19
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alavatar View Post
    With the change to the Healer's Friend Enhancement from 2/4/6 to 1/2/3, I believe your stance to be a matter of opinion.

    I still find Warforged to be strong contenders in most roles. Certainly not the best in every role, or even second best in most roles, but still pretty good and providing some rather unique advantages. I find the following benefits:

    • Immunity to Energy Drain effects
    • Half Damage from Negative Energy
    • Immunity to Sleep/Nausea (I have heard some people saying they get nausea'd as a WF, but I haven't)
    • Immunity to Fatigue/Exhaustion
    • Immunity to Paralysis (Hold Person/Monster) and Transmuting (Flesh to Stone) effects
    • Be healed by Repair spells in addition to Curative spells

    to outweigh the following penalties:

    • -20% Positive Energy
    • 6 AP automatically spoken for
    • A feat for armor
    • Static Max Dex based on the Armor Feat

    Just my personal opinion, though. In my mind, the comparison is "Would I take a feat on my fleshy that did all that?" And most of the time the answer is yes. My personal exceptions are Barbarians and Paladins.


    Disclaimer: Every Warforged not capable of self-healing through Repair spells MUST incorporate at least +20% and +30% Healing Amp items. Otherwise, they're just being inconsiderate and wasteful of resources.



    Sorry for the tangent. I do agree with the OP, though.
    You forgot 'poor loot pool' which is one of the bigger gotchas, as well as poor enhancement selection and bugginess (PRR now, but heal amp was an issue for months)
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  20. #20
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alavatar View Post
    • Half Damage from Negative Energy
    not true
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
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