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  1. #21
    Community Member Mark2422's Avatar
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    I have been refining my druid for quite some time now. Experimented with all sorts of weird and wonde.... I mean Sh**e things. I am currently testing out using PA and having evasion through dual weild. If it works well then there should not be much need for 2 monk splash.

    My main focus recently has been to push my Earthquake DC high enough to work beautifully in EE. Now I have 3 sorc past lives I can just break the 50 barrier at this moment in time.

    Once I am settled on the new GH gear setup I will look at updating my build to how it is looking now. The basic principles are the same, just more specialised in Evo DC in order to be more effective in EE.
    Toons: Markeyx Markeyi, MarkeyKoS, MarkeyKoS-1
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  2. #22
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    Nobody tossed builds?
    For caster and healing ONLY, the 20 druid shines the best for THAT particular role.
    For caster and healing + some melee, you splash.

    Good options are:
    19druid/1monk,
    18druid/2monk
    17druid/3monk (For -25% SP cost) (sample build here http://pastebin.com/a7FvmxWM Quicken recommended)
    17druid/2monk/1fighter (intensely mana-gimped)

    Shiradi Champion Druid
    I've actually tried 18druid/2wizard (helf Arti Dil) for +40 Force Spell Power AND magic missile, chain missile, force missile scroll usage (can also be achieved with UMD). I was unimpressed by the damage.

    Druid Damage Caster. (Shiradi Champion)
    Your inventory of spells to get procs are:
    lvl1: [e]Produce Flame
    lvl2: [e]Creeping Cold
    lvl3: [t]Spike Growth (tick/2sec),
    lvl4: [e]Enveloping Swarm (tick/2sec when hit in melee), [e]Ice Storm,
    lvl5: [e]Wall of Fire,
    lvl6: [c]Fire Seeds (place on ground), [e]greater creeping cold,
    lvl7: [e]Body of the Sun (tick/3sec), [c]Creeping Doom (tick/2sec),
    lvl8: [e]Earthquake (tick/2sec)
    lvl9: [c]Storm of Vengeance (tick/2sec)

    Here is breakdown by Ticks Per Second (TPS):
    0.5 tps - gcc
    0.5 tps - cc
    1 tps - icestorm
    0.5 tps - spike growth
    0.5 tps - creeping doom
    0.25 tps - storm vengeance
    0.5 tps - magic missile/force missile (Assume constant use as soon as CD expire)(all scrolls share same cooldown)
    2 tps - chain missile (requires 2 mobs close together, this is better than MM) (all scrolls share same cooldown)

    0.25 tps - enveloping swarm (only if being hit)
    (+ possible dot twist from primal avatar ED but it's bugged atm)

    So realistically, cast Creeping Doom, Ice Storm, Spikegrowth, and then spam chain missile scrolls, you will get something like 4 TPS per enemy assuming they are standing in all your AOEs (against single targets use CC + GCC).

    In a 30 second duration, you will get 120 hits total per mob. That is 8.4 hits that will proc the 7% shiradi abilities.

    ================================================== =========================================

    Assuming 300 spellpower in every element (which is unreachable btw).
    8.4 hits at 220dmg each (favorable winds) = 1848 dmg
    8.4 hits at 200dmg each (rainbow) = 1680 dmg
    8.4 hits at ???dmg each (double rainbow) = ???? dmg
    8.4 hits at 404dmg each (fey power) = 3393.6 dmg

    So in a 30 second duration, Shiradi will give to the druid,
    1848 + 1680 + 3393.6 + ??? = 6921.6 extra damage (that's per 30 seconds)

    6921.6 damage every 30 sec is not great. (let's say 9k if we guestimate the damage of double rainbow).
    - Your icestorm will be the unempowered, unmaximized version. (which hits for peanuts)
    - Creeping doom will all be saved (bcuz it's the conjuration tree, u dont have the DC to hit anything on EE)
    - Spike growth is 10d4 every 2 seconds (i.e. peanuts)
    - Chain Missile bolts will hit for peanuts.
    - Creeping Cold & Greater Creeping Cold IS damage. Albeit not much, and also single-target only.
    - Btw dont forget 9% crit chance from Greater Arcane Lore

    Consider that a properly geared sorcerer will do 9000 damage using Energy Burst every 30 seconds on a Crit. 8000 damage on an energy burst crit is No Problem (tm).

    Conclusion: 9000 damage / 30 seconds = 300dps

    ================================================== =========================================
    So when you mean Shiradi Caster Druid, what you really mean is a druid that sacrifices ALL of its casting time to do peanut damage (300~dps), and has a good chance to perma-stun one enemy. Yay.
    From my own experimentation, I was doing less damage as a Shiradi than if I went Draconic Incarnation and used Energy Vortex and Dragon Breath.
    Not to mention as DI i dont have to rely on mobs standing in place (which they almost never do),
    Not to mention as DI i had 100% more time to cast other stuff like Heal and Regenerate.

    Shiradi Champion caster druid is unviable unless you go EH where you can play anyway you like. You will simply not compete against the next DPS class. That's my analysis anyway.
    Last edited by Chobo; 03-14-2013 at 04:52 AM.

  3. #23
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    btw u can actually cast earthquake (0.5 tps) and storm of vengeance (0.5 tps) and run into melee range with body of the sun to get another 0.33 tps (also risking yourself). but the former is not mana-efficient, the latter is too dangerous for it to be worth it.

    of course i am aware there are more reasons to use earthquake than for the TPS portion...

    maybe i should've factored earthquake in to achieve 1 extra tps. but i think it won't affect the conclusion.

    edit: brain failed
    Last edited by Chobo; 03-14-2013 at 10:20 AM.

  4. #24
    Community Member Mark2422's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chobo View Post
    Nobody tossed builds?
    For caster and healing ONLY, the 20 druid shines the best for THAT particular role.
    For caster and healing + some melee, you splash.

    Good options are:
    19druid/1monk,
    18druid/2monk
    17druid/3monk (For -25% SP cost) (sample build here http://pastebin.com/a7FvmxWM Quicken recommended)
    17druid/2monk/1fighter (intensely mana-gimped)

    Shiradi Champion Druid
    I've actually tried 18druid/2wizard (helf Arti Dil) for +40 Force Spell Power AND magic missile, chain missile, force missile scroll usage (can also be achieved with UMD). I was unimpressed by the damage.

    Druid Damage Caster. (Shiradi Champion)
    Your inventory of spells to get procs are:
    lvl1: [e]Produce Flame
    lvl2: [e]Creeping Cold
    lvl3: [t]Spike Growth (tick/2sec),
    lvl4: [e]Enveloping Swarm (tick/2sec when hit in melee), [e]Ice Storm,
    lvl5: [e]Wall of Fire,
    lvl6: [c]Fire Seeds (place on ground), [e]greater creeping cold,
    lvl7: [e]Body of the Sun (tick/3sec), [c]Creeping Doom (tick/2sec),
    lvl8: [e]Earthquake (tick/2sec)
    lvl9: [c]Storm of Vengeance (tick/2sec)

    Here is breakdown by Ticks Per Second (TPS):
    0.5 tps - gcc
    0.5 tps - cc
    1 tps - icestorm
    0.5 tps - spike growth
    0.5 tps - creeping doom
    0.25 tps - storm vengeance
    0.5 tps - magic missile/force missile (Assume constant use as soon as CD expire)(all scrolls share same cooldown)
    2 tps - chain missile (requires 2 mobs close together, this is better than MM) (all scrolls share same cooldown)

    0.25 tps - enveloping swarm (only if being hit)
    (+ possible dot twist from primal avatar ED but it's bugged atm)

    So realistically, cast Creeping Doom, Ice Storm, Spikegrowth, and then spam chain missile scrolls, you will get something like 4 TPS per enemy assuming they are standing in all your AOEs (against single targets use CC + GCC).

    In a 30 second duration, you will get 120 hits total per mob. That is 8.4 hits that will proc the 7% shiradi abilities.

    ================================================== =========================================

    Assuming 300 spellpower in every element (which is unreachable btw).
    8.4 hits at 220dmg each (favorable winds) = 1848 dmg
    8.4 hits at 200dmg each (rainbow) = 1680 dmg
    8.4 hits at ???dmg each (double rainbow) = ???? dmg
    8.4 hits at 404dmg each (fey power) = 3393.6 dmg

    So in a 30 second duration, Shiradi will give to the druid,
    1848 + 1680 + 3393.6 + ??? = 6921.6 extra damage (that's per 30 seconds)

    6921.6 damage every 30 sec is not great. (let's say 9k if we guestimate the damage of double rainbow).
    - Your icestorm will be the unempowered, unmaximized version. (which hits for peanuts)
    - Creeping doom will all be saved (bcuz it's the conjuration tree, u dont have the DC to hit anything on EE)
    - Spike growth is 10d4 every 2 seconds (i.e. peanuts)
    - Chain Missile bolts will hit for peanuts.
    - Creeping Cold & Greater Creeping Cold IS damage. Albeit not much, and also single-target only.
    - Btw dont forget 9% crit chance from Greater Arcane Lore

    Consider that a properly geared sorcerer will do 9000 damage using Energy Burst every 30 seconds on a Crit. 8000 damage on an energy burst crit is No Problem (tm).

    Conclusion: 9000 damage / 30 seconds = 300dps

    ================================================== =========================================
    So when you mean Shiradi Caster Druid, what you really mean is a druid that sacrifices ALL of its casting time to do peanut damage (300~dps), and has a good chance to perma-stun one enemy. Yay.
    From my own experimentation, I was doing less damage as a Shiradi than if I went Draconic Incarnation and used Energy Vortex and Dragon Breath.
    Not to mention as DI i dont have to rely on mobs standing in place (which they almost never do),
    Not to mention as DI i had 100% more time to cast other stuff like Heal and Regenerate.

    Shiradi Champion caster druid is unviable unless you go EH where you can play anyway you like. You will simply not compete against the next DPS class. That's my analysis anyway.
    Haha, I like it!

    When I tried out Shiradi I was very unimpressed by the ticks and it felt to me like I was not gaining as much as what other people were claiming. It is nice to see the numbers confirm that feeling. Shiradi has never been a realistic consideration for me.

    For DPS you go Draconic.
    For healing its exalted. You also have Primal as an alternate choice if you want evasion. In terms of healing capability there is not much in it.
    For Earthquake maximums you will have to go Magister, which I am currently looking at again to see if it is a viable option for my V.2 build.
    For melee (remember this is based purely on my experiance as a pure monk) go GMOF for EiN and added surviveability. However, I am sure there are other options so please don't take my word for melee.
    Last edited by Mark2422; 03-14-2013 at 06:02 AM.
    Toons: Markeyx Markeyi, MarkeyKoS, MarkeyKoS-1
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  5. #25
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    Mitwo on Orien has a storm of thousand blows build. 12monk/7druid/1rogue. It does a lot of damage, quickly. And, yeah. he solos or short mans ee.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    Justme:
    How was your 2 monk splash affecting DC's? wouldnt the wisdom stance from monk midigate the loss of the capstone? Also were you playing a caster druid? What was so fun about it?
    ?
    The 2 monk splash meant:
    1) I didn't have all the top level spells as I would have liked (didn't have Mantle of the Icy Soul or Ice Flowers though that is a bit flaky)
    2) The DC seemed noticeably lower in that I couldn't knock EE mobs down with earthquake reliably or at all - I am not sure if I was necessarily in the optimal destiny for that as most of the time I was GMOF usually as I really really like EIN and with the high wisdom it was pretty effective (i.e. way better than my 12monk/6fighter/2pally (4th lifer)) (hence fun)
    3) Wisdom on second druid life (2monk vs pure first time druid) was likely higher mainly due to completionist feat (+2 to all stats ), +4 wisdom tome that finally dropped for her (which was negated by starting with one less wisdom)
    4) Wisdom from monk stance did not seem to make up for the two lower caster level - especially when you get hit with the penalty from the opposite form.

    My play style was to cast spells, then fight right in the middle of my earthquake/storm/etc and hit things with my fists (This toon started life as monk and basically has almost every notable pair of hand wraps in the game) So I would call it a caster first, melee second but it was important to be able to do both.

    Why it was fun:
    Generally self sufficient (up until getting hit in ee high road quests which would flatten me way to fast)
    Could cast spells, stand there and hit things with my fists and throw in a EIN every so often.
    Incredible stunning fist - would stun almost anything due to high wisdom
    Evasion was OK - good enough for most things

    As for builds - some of the build outlines that I can still find on my computer (I rarely do exactly what I plan but it gives somewhat of an idea of what it looked like)

    http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=25401 - I think this was an initial plan for my 18druid/2monk but... I am pretty sure I swapped the order somewhere along the way, waiting to get 15 dex for twf. And am almost positive I dropped wisdom to 17... but I can't remember anymore

    http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=40551 - 12 barb/7druid/1rogue - my experimental "drunk barbarian"(C) (thanks Dolden for the name), yes it doesn't have monk but it wished it did. I decided I wanted 2 more barbarian past lives (30 extra hp at level 1 is making my drow wizard life much less squishy) but didn't want to be a totally healer dependent creature (or silver flame pot dependent) so this was my take on Mitwo's monk/druid build translated to barbarian . It was totally feat starved so it was definitely suboptimal and if my frozen tunic didn't get totally borked on the second time around (thanks unyielding sentinel!), I likely would be happier with it

    Right now I am running through some more lives (2 more wizard,sorc,cleric and 1 more fvs before I try out a pure caster druid. At that point I am going to see how she handles... and if I change my mind what her final life will be.
    Shalera Dagen - Triple Completionist life 40 (+ ??? epic) - it is too hard to keep track of the epic lives...

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chobo View Post
    btw u can actually cast earthquake (0.5 tps) and storm of vengeance (0.5 tps) and run into melee range with body of the sun to get another 0.33 tps (also risking yourself). but the former is not mana-efficient, the latter is too dangerous for it to be worth it.

    of course i am aware there are more reasons to use earthquake than for the TPS portion...

    maybe i should've factored earthquake in to achieve 1 extra tps. but i think it won't affect the conclusion.

    edit: brain failed
    If your earthquake is good enough, you should be fine being in melee range with body of sun - you can also likely be hitting things with whatever is in your hand (the priestess dagger seemed quite nice when I was doing a pure druid)
    Shalera Dagen - Triple Completionist life 40 (+ ??? epic) - it is too hard to keep track of the epic lives...

  8. #28
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    this is my build that I use for any epic elite ques:
    http://arcimaghieterni.forumfree.it/?t=64017142

    I have no problems healing raids using regenerate mass, renewal, rejuvination cocoon, and thanks to these spell points efficient spells I run out of mana after clerics and fvs who have to use their slow casting heal mass (I have 3 past lives fvs and 3 past lives cleric and 2 druid lives so I know very well the difference between these classes).

    I have some melee dps problems with mobs both immune to earthquake and stunning fist (bosses for example): for this reason I CAN'T solo epic elite quests, but I can fit very well in any group with healing or crowd control or dps (barbarians love to hit my stunned mobs ^^) roles based on the necessity of the group.

    Final considerations: druids have excellent healing and crowd control abilities (I would NOT change it for any fvs, cleric or mage build), and can help themselves with some melee dps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chobo View Post
    Nobody tossed builds?
    For caster and healing ONLY, the 20 druid shines the best for THAT particular role.
    For caster and healing + some melee, you splash.

    Good options are:
    19druid/1monk,
    18druid/2monk
    17druid/3monk (For -25% SP cost) (sample build here http://pastebin.com/a7FvmxWM Quicken recommended)
    17druid/2monk/1fighter (intensely mana-gimped)

  9. #29
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chobo View Post
    Shiradi Champion Druid
    Lots of stuff
    Most of your procks rates are incorrect information.
    Shiradi Champion procks only triger on the first hit for most aoe's and single target spells even if they are dots. Creeping cold for example will only ever trigger a Shiradi prock on the first tick. Ice storm will only ever trigger procks on the first casting (or if mobs re-enter the AOE).

    These are the ONLY spell in a druid list that have more then one prock:
    - fire seeds and word of balance (due to multiple hits)
    - call lighting storm
    - earthquake
    - Body of the sun
    - storm of vengeance (the lighting strikes)


    This is my take on a wisdom EE viable druid:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=412067
    Last edited by Pilgrim1; 03-21-2013 at 04:41 PM.

  10. #30
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    I confirm all that Pilgrim1 says about shiradi procs (tested myself).
    your build is awesome, you are one of the few players who really understand how to really play a druid. we need more druids like you in the game!

    your druid build is a
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    Most of your procks rates are incorrect information.
    Shiradi Champion procks only triger on the first hit for most aoe's and single target spells even if they are dots. Creeping cold for example will only ever trigger a Shiradi prock on the first tick. Ice storm will only ever trigger procks on the first casting (or if mobs re-enter the AOE).

    These are the ONLY spell in a druid list that have more then one prock:
    - fire seeds and word of balance (due to multiple hits)
    - call lighting storm
    - earthquake
    - Body of the sun
    - storm of vengeance (the lighting strikes)


    This is my take on a wisdom EE viable druid:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=412067

  11. #31
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    I confirm all that Pilgrim1 says about shiradi procs (tested myself).
    your build is awesome, you are one of the few players who really understand how to really play a druid. we need more druids like you in the game!

    your druid build is a
    wow, thanks!

  12. #32
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    Default EE Druid build I rocked with as a first life druid.

    Here is a good EE build for a first life druid that will work. I ran an 18 druid 2 fighter build that worked, but this one is better.

    Shiradi destiny twisted with boulder throw and cocoon.
    Socket 114 devotion into a tortured livewood bow to make it a spell casting implement + blue dragon armor for lore. Silver flame bow for undead.

    1 Ranger/2 monk/17 druid
    Helf or Elf AA

    Water elemental > Mantle of Icy Soul for harder things (GCC and CC now slow targets so you can kite them with no save) IPS + earthquake/sleet/hailstorm + shiradi goodness
    Fire elemental for easier things > body of sun + IPS Shiradi goodness

    Feats:
    Bow Str (ranger free)
    PBS 1
    Precision 2 (monk) (switch to ZA after you are decently geared and free LR your dex to wisdom if you want)
    Evasion (monk free)
    Armored (monk free)
    Tough 3 (monk)
    WFR 3
    Precise Shot 6 (silver long bow or delara's bow)
    Rapid 9
    MT 12 (base attack 9 here, so AA, lvl 11 set)
    Imp Crit 15 (just got Bow of Sinew, blue+black dragon armor)
    Many 18
    Emp H 21 (just hit harder epic content)
    Imp Prec. Shot 24 (just maxed out Shiradi + lvl 2 in fury/primal)

    I started my str/dex/con/wis stats all about even.

    Pet with evasion, white dragon plate, grave wrappings

    Do whatever you really want with your enhancements, some vengeful hunter and healing is nice.

    You are now the perfect 6th person to fill in any party. Any melee loves FoM+ sleet/hailstorm/IPS shiradi paralyze as defense, any ranged loves your no save slows on anything necessary. Everyone loves backup mass regen + healing spring running through harder fights. You can have your mass regen targeted, and still fire your bow with mouse aiming at a target.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-30-2013 at 02:37 AM.

  13. #33
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark2422 View Post
    Haha, I like it!

    When I tried out Shiradi I was very unimpressed by the ticks and it felt to me like I was not gaining as much as what other people were claiming. It is nice to see the numbers confirm that feeling. Shiradi has never been a realistic consideration for me.

    For DPS you go Draconic.
    For healing its exalted. You also have Primal as an alternate choice if you want evasion. In terms of healing capability there is not much in it.
    For Earthquake maximums you will have to go Magister, which I am currently looking at again to see if it is a viable option for my V.2 build.
    For melee (remember this is based purely on my experiance as a pure monk) go GMOF for EiN and added survivability. However, I am sure there are other options so please don't take my word for melee.
    Just another take on the melee druid I run an elemental splashed with 2 monk and 1 ranger level and fury is fast becoming my favorite ED because of furyshot and when manyshot is off timer I melee with the other melee and it is great for the healers to be able to be able to cast greater regen.

    Lets take FoT for an example it is very useful to have spells like firewall/body of the sun I cast it around the main melee group and when the trash spawns I grab the aggro kite it away and kill it and I do not have to explain to those who run this raid how important it is to have a good ranged option there.

    There are so many ways you can play a druid and be viable but you have to work at it find what matches your play-style and max that factor. I am a long way from maxing my melee druid potential but he is now very viable in ee questing.

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