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Thread: ED suggestion!!

  1. #161
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    But the whole point is people not wanting to level off destinies by playing them in regular content...

    Aaand semantics again. I can tell you do have a degree in philosophy...
    Sophistry more like it. But then again, most of us posters on the forums have one.

  2. #162

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    [QUOTE=FengXian;4872301]But the whole point is people not wanting to level off destinies by playing them in regular content...QUOTE]

    The whole point is that 'people' have offered many different options; OP is suggesting XP penalty leveling in a different destiny, others have suggested many different good options. All meant to improve over all experience in leveling a destiny. Mine would be to be able to level whatever destiny you'd like with a way of earning fate points over the long haul through regular leveling - de-coupling the idea of fate points from destinies but to add a bonus of fate points for unlocking and leveling all destinies. So that people who want to unlock it all has an incentive to do so and are the only ones who can optimize their twists. kind of like through regular de-coupling a person could get say 4-2-1 twists as long as they at least levelled in 3-4 destinies and over a the long haul while anyone that unlocked everything could get something like a 4-3-2. Adding a significant bonus to people who grind through it all.

    So that was not the whole point. As for what you think about me and my degree it's irrelevant. I find arguments about what you might think about other people pointless. They're not constructive.
    Last edited by patang01; 01-31-2013 at 07:19 AM.

  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Sophistry more like it. But then again, most of us posters on the forums have one.
    soph·is·try (sf-str)
    n. pl. soph·is·tries
    1. Plausible but fallacious argumentation.
    2. A plausible but misleading or fallacious argument.
    Like making an argument that someone else is not making.

    People and use of words.

  4. #164
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Like making an argument that someone else is not making.

    People and use of words.
    Twas a joke, aimed at us all. We argue and argue pointlessly day in and day out, when there is no way one of us is right, or the other wrong

  5. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Twas a joke, aimed at us all. We argue and argue pointlessly day in and day out, when there is no way one of us is right, or the other wrong
    I don't know about that, 2+2 is always 4. But you're right about this argument - there's no right and wrong other then that the current destiny system is kind of an hot mess.

  6. #166
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    I don't know about that, 2+2 is always 4. But you're right about this argument - there's no right and wrong other then that the current destiny system is kind of an hot mess.
    Even that can be argued endlessly, bu applying the math to something inappropriate.

    The one thing we can agree about is that the ED system as it stands definitivley wont amke everybody happy (well, it wont make anyone exactly happy, mor elike indifferent). But then again it can never make everyone happy, us being contrary creatures.

  7. #167
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    The whole point is that 'people' have offered many different options; OP is suggesting XP penalty leveling in a different destiny, others have suggested many different good options. All meant to improve over all experience in leveling a destiny. Mine would be to be able to level whatever destiny you'd like with a way of earning fate points over the long haul through regular leveling - de-coupling the idea of fate points from destinies but to add a bonus of fate points for unlocking and leveling all destinies. So that people who want to unlock it all has an incentive to do so and are the only ones who can optimize their twists. kind of like through regular de-coupling a person could get say 4-2-1 twists as long as they at least levelled in 3-4 destinies and over a the long haul while anyone that unlocked everything could get something like a 4-3-2. Adding a significant bonus to people who grind through it all.

    So that was not the whole point. As for what you think about me and my degree it's irrelevant. I find arguments about what you might think about other people pointless. They're not constructive.
    And I was not arguing agains every single idea proposed in this thread. Not sure why would you think that. Maybe you assumed it so it'd be easier to argue against it => strawman XD.

    But yeah, I agree with bartharok that it's hard to change your own, let alone someone else's mind in the forums.

    I also agree that the current ED system is "ok" (= indifferent). It can be improved but I don't think it's bad enough to be a priority.
    Cannith - Juzam, Fighter 8 Ranger 6 Monk 6 AA/ Orocarn, Wraith 12 Stalwart Defender 6 Rogue 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Alleanza degli Uomini Liberi/Guardiani di Eberron

  8. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Even that can be argued endlessly, bu applying the math to something inappropriate.

    The one thing we can agree about is that the ED system as it stands definitivley wont amke everybody happy (well, it wont make anyone exactly happy, mor elike indifferent). But then again it can never make everyone happy, us being contrary creatures.
    I've learned to never argue against math (statistics on the other hand). It's about the closest we can get to god juice in any defined argument. It's like claiming that the sun won't rise - sure - the sun can explode and such but our family lines will be dust before that happens, just as the argument that 2+2 aint 4 is true. But then that will never stop some from arguing otherwise

    Humans...

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    And I was not arguing agains every single idea proposed in this thread. Not sure why would you think that. Maybe you assumed it so it'd be easier to argue against it => strawman XD.
    maybe you shouldn't use such general terms as 'people' when you construct an argument against something specific. Just sayin'.

  10. #170
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    maybe you shouldn't use such general terms as 'people' when you construct an argument against something specific. Just sayin'.
    My bad, I was relying on the fact that interpretation would not be based on convenience...I put too much trust in "people", I know.
    Cannith - Juzam, Fighter 8 Ranger 6 Monk 6 AA/ Orocarn, Wraith 12 Stalwart Defender 6 Rogue 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Alleanza degli Uomini Liberi/Guardiani di Eberron

  11. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    My bad, I was relying on the fact that interpretation would not be based on convenience...I put too much trust in "people", I know.
    I hear, not that 'some' is a better argument but at least it won't conflate several 'peoples' arguments. Anyway - I'm done beating this horse. It's dead. Time to grind another argument

  12. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    But it's your choice. You could be having fun playing the regular game in a "gimped" destiny, a lot of people find it fun.
    I am not one of those people. I clearly and unambiguously explained why I want to level non-active destinies, and it has nothing to do with easier. It's all about FUN.

    Because you have such a hard-on for the idea that people are asking for the game to be easier, I'm specifically asking for the game to be harder. I want to level my off destinies whille my main destiny is active, and doing so will make the game harder for me. Because instead of standing on a bell -- which is the easiest thing you can possibly do in this game -- I'll be actively playing the game. Which is much, much harder than standing on bell, even if it still isn't very hard in the grand scheme of things.

    To clarify, because you seem to be having trouble with this point: I want leveling off-destinies to be fun so that I can avoid the easy button of standing on a bell. As currently designed, leveling off destinies for me is devoid of fun, just like standing on a bell is. But the bell approach is infinitely faster, so that's why I choose it.

  13. #173
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I am not one of those people. I clearly and unambiguously explained why I want to level non-active destinies, and it has nothing to do with easier. It's all about FUN.

    Because you have such a hard-on for the idea that people are asking for the game to be easier, I'm specifically asking for the game to be harder. I want to level my off destinies whille my main destiny is active, and doing so will make the game harder for me. Because instead of standing on a bell -- which is the easiest thing you can possibly do in this game -- I'll be actively playing the game. Which is much, much harder than standing on bell, even if it still isn't very hard in the grand scheme of things.

    To clarify, because you seem to be having trouble with this point: I want leveling off-destinies to be fun so that I can avoid the easy button of standing on a bell. As currently designed, leveling off destinies for me is devoid of fun, just like standing on a bell is. But the bell approach is infinitely faster, so that's why I choose it.
    The idea of FUN proposed is one that makes it easier to gain the XP needed for EDs, not when it comes to time invested, but rather in questing itself. It may not seem like that to you, but that is what it seems like to us. Neither is really right or wrong, but that is beside the point. Im just trying to explain how I see it.

  14. #174
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I am not one of those people. I clearly and unambiguously explained why I want to level non-active destinies, and it has nothing to do with easier. It's all about FUN.

    Because you have such a hard-on for the idea that people are asking for the game to be easier, I'm specifically asking for the game to be harder. I want to level my off destinies whille my main destiny is active, and doing so will make the game harder for me. Because instead of standing on a bell -- which is the easiest thing you can possibly do in this game -- I'll be actively playing the game. Which is much, much harder than standing on bell, even if it still isn't very hard in the grand scheme of things.

    To clarify, because you seem to be having trouble with this point: I want leveling off-destinies to be fun so that I can avoid the easy button of standing on a bell. As currently designed, leveling off destinies for me is devoid of fun, just like standing on a bell is. But the bell approach is infinitely faster, so that's why I choose it.
    I have a much more straightforward solution for you: ask for a Rusted Blades nerf. That will definitely prevent you from standing on a bell to farm EDs. See how popular that suggestion will be

    That is, since now it seems impossible for you to level destinies while playing regular content. Or to have fun leveling them...I guess running quests with off destinies if more boring than farming RB for you, right?
    Last edited by FengXian; 01-31-2013 at 08:58 AM.
    Cannith - Juzam, Fighter 8 Ranger 6 Monk 6 AA/ Orocarn, Wraith 12 Stalwart Defender 6 Rogue 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Alleanza degli Uomini Liberi/Guardiani di Eberron

  15. #175
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    I have a much more straightforward solution for you: ask for a Rusted Blades nerf. That will definitely prevent you from standing on a bell to farm EDs. See how popular that suggestion will be

    That is, since now it seems impossible for you to level destinies while playing regular content. Or to have fun leveling them...I guess running quests with off destinies if more boring than farming RB for you, right?
    Can we bring it back to a reasoned discussion. I have to assume you are being sarcastic otherwise:



    What is being offered up is a solution that would benefit everyone. Those that enjoy leveling sub-optimal and worse EDs, can still do so, the rest can stay in their destiny with a penalty but be able to enjoy the game how they want as well. Neither one is necessarily easier nor harder; it would probably take longer for the latter, but still provide fun... not ease. Giving choices is something I support whole-heartedly.


    Not really related but is in answer to ED vs Heroic comparisons:
    I can level bard levels as a sorc, one should be able to do this with EDs(this is not the particular solution anyone is suggesting but merely a point that one is already able to level other things while in a different class setting).
    Last edited by Sonos; 01-31-2013 at 10:01 AM.

  16. #176
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    @Sonos: yes, I was sarcastic about nerfing RB, but that did sound the best solution for people who claim that farming RB is much less boring than running quests in off destinies, to the point that they can't help farming RB.

    And no, it would not take longer for the latter, because they would be getting their raid completions, farming their loot etc. and IN ADDITION, FOR FREE they would be getting off destinies' XP.

    As for other possible good ideas in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    I also agree that the current ED system is "ok" (= indifferent). It can be improved but I don't think it's bad enough to be a priority.
    edit: you need +5 LR(s) to level a bard as a sorc. They are not exactly free. Pretty expensive actually.
    Cannith - Juzam, Fighter 8 Ranger 6 Monk 6 AA/ Orocarn, Wraith 12 Stalwart Defender 6 Rogue 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Alleanza degli Uomini Liberi/Guardiani di Eberron

  17. #177
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Twas a joke, aimed at us all. We argue and argue pointlessly day in and day out, when there is no way one of us is right, or the other wrong
    One of the first statements in this post that I can agree with in some way.

    The request is not to make the game easier and as said a hundred times before and never get a reply that makes sense. How is double the XP easier? With suggestion would take twice as long to lvl ED.

    EH is easy in any destiny (at least for me) all I am asking for is to lvl in main destiny for FUN!!

    I gave a proposal of huge xp penalty. All arguments are saying want easy button. That isn't a valid argument if read all posts, but some just either don't read or have blinders on to anything that ruins there arguments.

    Life on the forums I guess, will always have this.
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  18. #178
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilger View Post
    The request is not to make the game easier and as said a hundred times before and never get a reply that makes sense. How is double the XP easier? With suggestion would take twice as long to lvl ED.

    EH is easy in any destiny (at least for me) all I am asking for is to lvl in main destiny for FUN!!

    I gave a proposal of huge xp penalty. All arguments are saying want easy button. That isn't a valid argument if read all posts, but some just either don't read or have blinders on to anything that ruins there arguments.

    Life on the forums I guess, will always have this.
    Unless you're also suggesting to remove the possibility to farm EDs as quickly as today,

    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    And no, it would not take longer for the latter, because they would be getting their raid completions, farming their loot etc. and IN ADDITION, FOR FREE they would be getting off destinies' XP.
    I don't know what is not clear about this. If you can level off EDs while running in your maxed main ED, even with 50% xp pen, you're still getting that off destiny xp FOR FREE, while farming gear and such. And even then you can always go back to RB if you want to level some off ED faster. Still can't see why it's easier than now?
    Cannith - Juzam, Fighter 8 Ranger 6 Monk 6 AA/ Orocarn, Wraith 12 Stalwart Defender 6 Rogue 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Alleanza degli Uomini Liberi/Guardiani di Eberron

  19. #179
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilger View Post
    One of the first statements in this post that I can agree with in some way.

    The request is not to make the game easier and as said a hundred times before and never get a reply that makes sense. How is double the XP easier? With suggestion would take twice as long to lvl ED.

    EH is easy in any destiny (at least for me) all I am asking for is to lvl in main destiny for FUN!!

    I gave a proposal of huge xp penalty. All arguments are saying want easy button. That isn't a valid argument if read all posts, but some just either don't read or have blinders on to anything that ruins there arguments.

    Life on the forums I guess, will always have this.
    There is a right and wrong position here. But the wrong position is ignoring the specific rational idea that it will actually take longer. ie not easier, not shorter, but more fun.

    If one were to actually acknowledge that part and THEN disagree to the suggestion, that would be one thing, so far, no counter argument even addresses the logic with actual logic.
    Last edited by Sonos; 01-31-2013 at 11:46 AM.

  20. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    Unless you're also suggesting to remove the possibility to farm EDs as quickly as today,



    I don't know what is not clear about this. If you can level off EDs while running in your maxed main ED, even with 50% xp pen, you're still getting that off destiny xp FOR FREE, while farming gear and such. And even then you can always go back to RB if you want to level some off ED faster. Still can't see why it's easier than now?
    I guess the for free part is the sticking point. Nothing is for free.

    It takes X amount of time to grind destiny. It would take X*1.5 doing the same thing according to the OPs suggestion.

    That's not free, nor faster and not easier. It would be to grind more content for a much slower result. Maybe not the best suggestion or the best way to fix the destiny mess but the argument that it's easier is wonky at best.

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