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Thread: ED suggestion!!

  1. #81
    Community Member AeliusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    I love it when people use the the term "hard work" when it comes to a video game. Also "easy button". "Easy button" and "hard work" in relation to senseless grind is quaint and a complete lazy way to describe wanting to change the way that the arbitrary grind is set up.

    No one is asking for free XP, one still has to grind out that XP.

    TRs? Psshh sure let's talk TR. If I want to level a bard, I only need to take 3 levels of bard(holding at 18) while leveling. Hit up ye olde TP shoppe and bam!, Bard PL. (full disclosure: I have leveled a bard from 1-20 b4 and just wanted to speed through it this life. Much love to Bards). Edit: also, got ninja'd.

    Let's talk nuance and not absolutes when talking about really unnecessary xp grind in less than ideal destinies.
    Semantics. Well, according to your logic there is no "hard work" in video games .. just "senseless grinds". Then why bother playing at all if you're so above it? Hell, why don't we make it so that everyone is a completionist w/maxed out EDs just by looting 1 chest so you don't have to level at all? /sarcasm off. NEWS FLASH: You are playing an MMO (for profit btw). Grind is part of the program. It's what gives people something to do whether or not you realize it. But I digress.

    Here's a challenge for you: If grinds are as "sensless" as you claim, why don't you enlighten us with an alternative mechanism for progress and gear acquisition within an MMO? The caveat is that is has to keep people playing w/o giving away the farm in a day in order to keep the profits rolling in. I'm sure the entire MMO industry is waiting for your "idea" with eager anticipation.

    PS: Perhaps you need to reevaluate who the lazy one is, this whole thread smacks of it.
    Last edited by AeliusMaximus; 01-30-2013 at 10:49 AM.
    The three hardest tasks in the world are neither physical feats nor intellectual achievements, but moral acts: to return love for hate, to include the excluded, and to say, "I was wrong".

  2. #82
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeliusMaximus View Post
    Semantics. Well, according to your logic there is no "hard work" in video games .. just "senseless grinds". Then why bother playing at all if you're so above it? Hell, why don't we make it so that everyone is a completionist w/maxed out EDs just by looting 1 chest so you don't have to level at all? /sarcasm off. NEWS FLASH: You are playing an MMO (for profit btw). Grind is part of the program. It's what gives people something to do whether or not you realize it. But I digress.

    Here's a challenge for you: If grinds are as "sensless" as you claim, why don't you enlighten us with an alternative mechanism for progress and gear acquisition within an MMO? The caveat is that is has to keep people playing w/o giving away the farm in a day in order to keep the profits rolling in. I'm sure the entire MMO industry is waiting for your "idea" with eager anticipation.

    PS: Perhaps you need to reevaluate who the lazy one is, this whole thread smacks of it.
    Wooosh

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    Wooosh
    Indeed

  4. #84
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Indeed
    You missed it, both of you

  5. #85
    Community Member apaurin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    This idea is just plain obvious, and really the only reasonable way to do it. Right now there is only one way to level epic destinies...
    1. get to level 25
    2. faceroll impossible demands or house of rusted blades 400-500 times
    3. profit???
    Huh? Who said you have to max secondary destinies as fast as possible to get all the wanted twists? It is your choice to do it that way. What if you tried doing quest the normal way on EN/EH when in secondary destiny to level it up, and switching to your primary maxed out when doing EE. Eventually you will get to the point you want to be anyway.
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    I don't even see the need to take a penalty. You should just be able to designate which destiny receives XP you earn, and which is active. The two should not be connected.

    This would turn a horribly grindy and unfun mechanic into a reasonable progression of power that can be enjoyable throughout (without all the unfortunate side effects and over powered abilities of the multi-destiny-active exploit)

    I disagree.... The whoel idea of experience points is that you're gaining experience in a particular craft, and as you do so you gain the benefits of that class.

    But.. Coming to a DDO store near you... LOL

  7. #87
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You missed it, both of you

    What, the part where he was too lazy to read the part that said one still has to grind the XP? That not many are suggesting that the xp go away? That letting some xp rollover from your preferred ED albeit penalized to your pathing ED?

    Double Woosh for you :P

  8. #88
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    There are lots of great points in this thread and I have enjoyed reading it so far. I personally think the ED system was fairly badly thrown together. I think the main mistakes baked are in the way things were grouped, how fate points are earned and TRing.

    It is probably too late for Turbine to 'mea culpa' and fix it but I do think 3 things would fix most complaints.

    1) Group the EDs by type as opposed to the way they are now. I think they should be grouped in a 'circle' by character types (spellcaster, melee and specialist) just like they are grouped during character creation.

    2) Fate points should be earned based solely on xp earned starting at lvl 20 not according to whether you are in an uncapped ED. There would of course be a cap according to how many fate points the devs want a character to gain at this juncture. You would still need to level multiple EDs to earn abilities to place in those 'twist' slots.

    3) Every time a character TRs they should be able to choose a new ED based on whatever 'circle' that character's new class matches. They just earned millions of xp to go from 1-20, I think it is justified.

    This probably isn't perfect but I think it would cover the issue for both casuals and more advanced folks (not sure what the PC term is these days) without making the system a big easy button for anyone.
    Last edited by Dawnsfire; 01-30-2013 at 02:12 PM.

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  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You missed it, both of you
    Not at all, English might not be my first language but I understand it very well.

  10. #90
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    The grind will be there, no doubt.

    All that I am suggesting and others are alluding to. Is up the fun not lower the grind. Fun is what keeps us here not the grind. I don't mind the grind all that much tbh, but a couple of nights standing on a bell till your eyes dry out and crack in two is not anyone's idea of fun. Yes the suggestion to run EN EH out of ideal ED is also used. Would just be more fun staying in ED for EE and running more EE, as well.

    More Fun, same grind.

  11. #91
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smatt View Post
    I disagree.... The whoel idea of experience points is that you're gaining experience in a particular craft, and as you do so you gain the benefits of that class.

    But.. Coming to a DDO store near you... LOL
    Taking additional law courses doesn't require me to be unable to use my accounting designation/experience until I finish my legal training.

    While I'm adding 5 levels of fighter to my rogue I don't have to give up my rogue enhancements and levels until I finish my fighter training.

    That is essentially how epic desitinies work now and it makes no sense. You shouldn't be cut out of your existing training just because you are training some more - especially since some of the other areas are just plain useless and incompatible with your main class. They ED system is not designed to be fun, and fun should be the key to a video game.

  12. #92
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    What, the part where he was too lazy to read the part that said one still has to grind the XP? That not many are suggesting that the xp go away? That letting some xp rollover from your preferred ED albeit penalized to your pathing ED?

    Double Woosh for you :P
    What you missed is that you choose to grind the xp, no one forces you to do it.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsfire View Post
    There are lots of great points in this thread and I have enjoyed reading it so far. I personally think the ED system was fairly badly thrown together. I think the main mistakes baked in are the way things were grouped. how fate points are earned and TRing.

    It is probably too late for Turbine to 'mea culpa' and fix it but I do think 3 things would fix most complaints.

    1) Group the EDs by type as opposed to the way they are now. I think they should be grouped in a 'circle' by character types (spellcaster, melee and specialist) just like they are grouped during character creation.

    2) Fate points should be earned based solely on xp earned starting at lvl 20 not according to whether you are in an uncapped ED. There would of course be a cap according to how many fate points the devs want a character to gain at this juncture. You would still need to level multiple EDs to earn abilities to place in those 'twist' slots.

    3) Every time a character TRs they should be able to choose a new ED based on whatever 'circle' that character's new class matches. They just earned millions of xp to go from 1-20, I think it is justified.

    This probably isn't perfect but I think it would cover the issue for both casuals and more advanced folks (not sure what the PC term is these days) without making the system a big easy button for anyone.
    Excellent suggestions and functionally a better system then what we have today. I don't mind levelling EDs I find functional or useful for functions I'd like to twist, but just to grind useless EDs for fate points is not productive and to grind through from one end to another isn't either. Another suggestion is to decouple fate points from levelling in Destiny and to provide a reward for completing a circle (in additional fate points). Meaning you can level exactly the destiny you want. I mean when I TR I'm not forced to 'unlock' Monk and Cleric before I get to Favored Soul. Instead provide an incentive for people who want to unlock everything such as 1 additional fate point per unlocked destiny circle so that the 'completionists' of all destinies have an incentive to grind for it, but those who chose not can still 'grind' for what they find entertaining.

  14. #94
    Community Member apaurin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    Would just be more fun staying in ED for EE and running more EE, as well.
    Can't argue with that, but I don't think advancing in something you don't use at all is the right way to go.
    Anyway, running EN/EH in non-optimal ED is, imho, still much more fun than "couple of nights standing on a bell till your eyes dry out and crack in two". I can't stand that kind of grind, never done it myself.
    Active characters: Pssyche * Dredmor * Worley * Bundolo

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by apaurin View Post
    Can't argue with that, but I don't think advancing in something you don't use at all is the right way to go.
    Anyway, running EN/EH in non-optimal ED is, imho, still much more fun than "couple of nights standing on a bell till your eyes dry out and crack in two". I can't stand that kind of grind, never done it myself.
    That is unfortunately what happens when you combine some quests with a poor function. That's no different from window farming some quests while TRing until your eyes bleed because they came up with a TR system while there's not enough quests or XP to get to level 20 without grinding XP. Ideally you should never have to do the same quest more then twice in order to get to 20. Which means more quests, revamp of XP for quests and also making sure the mechanics doesn't exclude people who want to solo. When I first played my sorc on the Bard destiny without the ability to twist in DC breaking tier 2 wiz and sorc abilities I hated it.

    Because when I played Epic stuff 30-50 percent of my spell failed to overcome reflex saves. On EN. And that's just an effect of overinflated saves that require you to optimize your destiny. Now it's a little bit better because I TR'd a few times, but I experience the same thing in Epic GH (wilderness of all places). I hate to think about grinding destinies on a off destiny under those circumstances.

  16. #96
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    What you missed is that you choose to grind the xp, no one forces you to do it.
    Do you read what you post? It's a video game. No one forces you to breathe but you choose to, you can stop it if you want, most everything is a choice. Some of us are coming up with ideas to make the game a bit more fun than it already is, and still maintaining the need for grinding. Woosh is the sound that points make when flowing through empty cavernous space or over one's head. Through or over, not sure which yet in this case.

  17. #97
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apaurin View Post
    Can't argue with that, but I don't think advancing in something you don't use at all is the right way to go.
    Anyway, running EN/EH in non-optimal ED is, imho, still much more fun than "couple of nights standing on a bell till your eyes dry out and crack in two". I can't stand that kind of grind, never done it myself.
    As I said I agree with you, it is one way to do it. But for a lot of people, they have a goal, or milestones. Getting there in the most efficient manner is a playstyle, one that not all are about, but plenty are, hence HoRB; so that they can enjoy the fruits and play EE.

  18. #98
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    Do you read what you post? It's a video game. No one forces you to breathe but you choose to, you can stop it if you want, most everything is a choice. Some of us are coming up with ideas to make the game a bit more fun than it already is, and still maintaining the need for grinding. Woosh is the sound that points make when flowing through empty cavernous space or over one's head. Through or over, not sure which yet in this case.
    You try to make the game less grindy for yourselves, yes. But all that you make it is easier for yourselves to get what you want, exactly the way you want it. I call that laziness. If you want all the EDs on one life, be prepared to grind. If you want all the EDs, period. Be prepared to grind. If you dont want to grind, dont. But you wont be getting the EDs you want. tanstaafl.

  19. #99
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You try to make the game less grindy for yourselves, yes. But all that you make it is easier for yourselves to get what you want, exactly the way you want it. I call that laziness. If you want all the EDs on one life, be prepared to grind. If you want all the EDs, period. Be prepared to grind. If you dont want to grind, dont. But you wont be getting the EDs you want. tanstaafl.

    One more post ignoring that I have not said to eliminate the grind, and you earn my first.

    If you aren't going to bother reading the posts you quote, there is no reason why I should ever read yours.

    And FTR: I will grind out all my EDs as I have already on occasion, I have come to jump on the band wagon of fun while grinding them. It doesn't affect me a whole heck of a lot and one answer should have sufficed but it was continuously misconstrued by the "hukd on phonix wukd fo mee" group that cannot comprehend simple language.
    Last edited by Sonos; 01-30-2013 at 12:21 PM.

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You try to make the game less grindy for yourselves, yes. But all that you make it is easier for yourselves to get what you want, exactly the way you want it. I call that laziness. If you want all the EDs on one life, be prepared to grind. If you want all the EDs, period. Be prepared to grind. If you dont want to grind, dont. But you wont be getting the EDs you want. tanstaafl.
    A better system makes it better for everyone. Even those who prefer to sleep on nails. I hope you're not suggesting that the current system is optimal and cannot in anyway be improved.

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