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Thread: ED suggestion!!

  1. #61
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    So it seems I'm in the minority, at least on the forums. I think the current system is more fair and logical than these proposals, which just seem like requests for easy buttons.

    Why should you get the power from levelling an ED without putting in the effort of actually levelling it?

    It really is the same as TRing. These proposals are like asking to keep playing a level-20 Sorc and send XP towards getting a Barbarian past life, without having to play Barbarian.

    But if you want it, you have to start back over at the lowest level ("delevel"), whether it be Heroic Level 1 or a brand new ED, and work through the class or ED you want the benefit from, be it Fate Points or Past Life feat.

    Gettting all the advantages of a maxxed ED (or class) while levelling a different ED (or class) would be unbalanced and unfair.
    What is with the TR comparisons.

    A TR and ED are two different things.

    TR'ing is way different you get something for every past life. ED is just a grind to get to the next ED and get nothing for. As a TR you choose which class you want to LVL, a ED you have no choice.

    So how is needing more xp to get ED done a easy button? What at least I asked for is to have a secondary destiny line where your xp goes with a 25-50% penalty. It does nothing for you but let you stay in your main line and have fun playing your character.

    If a game is fun people will play longer. If a game is frustrating and grindy people will burn and leave. Grind is fine with me, but mind numbing crappy grinding is'nt and will drive people away. I left when GW2 came out and been back a month now. I left for another game and didn't feel bad for one minute the grind burnt me and was a easy decision. If they had a end game would still be there, but capped all 8 classes and came back only because missed my friends and guildies.

    The suggestion is no easy button actually it makes it harder because need more xp. Being in my main line will not stop me from completing quests or make it harder. The game isn't hard, but not being in my main line isn't as fun as being in my main. That is why suggesting letting us play in it and have a secondary line for a xp loss.

    It's a game lets have fun with it it isn't a job or work as some here seem to want it to be.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilger View Post
    What is with the TR comparisons.

    A TR and ED are two different things.

    TR'ing is way different you get something for every past life. ED is just a grind to get to the next ED and get nothing for. As a TR you choose which class you want to LVL, a ED you have no choice.

    So how is needing more xp to get ED done a easy button? What at least I asked for is to have a secondary destiny line where your xp goes with a 25-50% penalty. It does nothing for you but let you stay in your main line and have fun playing your character.

    If a game is fun people will play longer. If a game is frustrating and grindy people will burn and leave. Grind is fine with me, but mind numbing crappy grinding is'nt and will drive people away. I left when GW2 came out and been back a month now. I left for another game and didn't feel bad for one minute the grind burnt me and was a easy decision. If they had a end game would still be there, but capped all 8 classes and came back only because missed my friends and guildies.

    The suggestion is no easy button actually it makes it harder because need more xp. Being in my main line will not stop me from completing quests or make it harder. The game isn't hard, but not being in my main line isn't as fun as being in my main. That is why suggesting letting us play in it and have a secondary line for a xp loss.

    It's a game lets have fun with it it isn't a job or work as some here seem to want it to be.
    I'm starting to think some believe that if you are having fun, you aren't earning it.

  3. #63
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilger View Post
    What is with the TR comparisons.

    A TR and ED are two different things.

    TR'ing is way different you get something for every past life. ED is just a grind to get to the next ED and get nothing for. As a TR you choose which class you want to LVL, a ED you have no choice.

    So how is needing more xp to get ED done a easy button? What at least I asked for is to have a secondary destiny line where your xp goes with a 25-50% penalty. It does nothing for you but let you stay in your main line and have fun playing your character.

    If a game is fun people will play longer. If a game is frustrating and grindy people will burn and leave. Grind is fine with me, but mind numbing crappy grinding is'nt and will drive people away. I left when GW2 came out and been back a month now. I left for another game and didn't feel bad for one minute the grind burnt me and was a easy decision. If they had a end game would still be there, but capped all 8 classes and came back only because missed my friends and guildies.

    The suggestion is no easy button actually it makes it harder because need more xp. Being in my main line will not stop me from completing quests or make it harder. The game isn't hard, but not being in my main line isn't as fun as being in my main. That is why suggesting letting us play in it and have a secondary line for a xp loss.

    It's a game lets have fun with it it isn't a job or work as some here seem to want it to be.
    Íts more like you working as a taster at an icecream factory, while being paid for lawyering. Fun, sure, but not exactly good practice

  4. #64
    Community Member Chilldude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    So it seems I'm in the minority, at least on the forums. I think the current system is more fair and logical than these proposals, which just seem like requests for easy buttons.

    Why should you get the power from levelling an ED without putting in the effort of actually levelling it?
    What effort? You mean face rolling House of Rusted Blades 500 times with 2 minutes runs? THAT'S earning it!? But earning XP while actually playing the game would be easy button. What color is the sky in your world man?

  5. #65
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    What effort? You mean face rolling House of Rusted Blades 500 times with 2 minutes runs? THAT'S earning it!? But earning XP while actually playing the game would be easy button. What color is the sky in your world man?
    Yeah, farm rusted blades. Or von3, or something. Or actually run around with non-maxed destinies in eh content, so you get to try them out.

    I agree most of this topic sounds like asking for an easy button. This game has enough of them already.

    Or maybe you would prefer rusted blades to be nerfed too, THEN you'd really have to earn your EDs I guess...people want everything right away, don't even wanna farm EDs, they want to level them while running in their main...why can't I be gaining TR xp while playing at cap then? Seriously, it's the SAME argument.
    Last edited by FengXian; 01-30-2013 at 06:01 AM.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    That would be true if you actually got some advantages from leveling most ED's. But most are just taken because they are on the path to where you want to go or because leveling useless ED's are the only way to get fate points.
    Everyone gets advantages from levelling every ED. Fate Points, as you mention, are the obvious one. But if people are a little creative, you can get good use out of any destiny.

    As for "on the path", it's just like a caster who wants an extra +2 to their main casting stat has to get a Monk past life even though they don't care about +1 melee damage? Monk, Fighter, etc., are the only way to get Completionist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I don't see a problem with playing your 20th level sorc and putting the xp towards a barb past life if it gives someone a reason to play their sorc rather than EQ or WoW because they simply don't like barbs and feel they can't go any further with the character they do like to play.
    I do.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    FAIL
    its nowhere like leveling an Sorc and getting Barb PL.
    its like leveling a Sorc with only melee attacks and Str 8
    its plain stupid, thats it
    FAIL, right. It's not anything like levelling a Sorc. People are asking to keep using the full power of an already-levelled thing, and somehow get the benefits of levelling something else out of it. Even re-levelling Sorc and getting a Barb PL isn't half the easy button of staying a Sorc20 and getting a Barb PL out of it. Or staying DI5 and getting LD levels out of it.

    A much less bad suggestion, that would match your "level as a Sorc" thing (though I still think unneeded), would be to let you transfer your XP, wholesale, to another ED. For example, if you are a Sorc and just finished maxxing out Draconic, you could instead be maxxed out on Fatesinger, and start back over at Draconic 0, and re-level Draconic.

    I still don't think that would be right, to get the benefits of an ED you've never used, but at least you wouldn't get the free benefits of levelling while staying at max power.

    If you want an ED levelled up, go level it. Being able to stay at max power while getting the benefits of levelling would be crazily overpowered.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    people want everything right away, don't even wanna farm EDs, they want to level them while running in their main...why can't I be gaining TR xp while playing at cap then? Seriously, it's the SAME argument.
    Seriously, it's not.

    The only way ED is parallel to TR is if your first life locks in your class forever, then every subsequent life you're stuck with that main class but are forced to choose enhancements from the TR class.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    Or actually run around with non-maxed destinies in eh content, so you get to try them out.
    Yup. They all do have stuff to offer. My Sorc life, I did all the other destinies before getting into Draconic Incarnation, and I don't regret it.

    And, no, you don't have to mindlessly farm Rusty. I barely touched Rusted Blades, only a couple times when nothing else was going on and someone had a group up for it. It's not hard to level destinies. You just have to PLAY THE GAME. I maxxed out all destinies in just a few months, without dedicated farming.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    It really is the same as TRing. These proposals are like asking to keep playing a level-20 Sorc and send XP towards getting a Barbarian past life, without having to play Barbarian..
    Not in any way shape and form. As explained; when you TR you benefit from the feats and enhancements of that class. When you level an off destiny you have very little benefit from the destiny on your current class.

    A better comparison would be like having to level on heroic, say as a fighter but using sorc enhancements. Because a destiny is in fact more like a Epic enhancement system, or PrE if you like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    But earning XP while actually playing the game would be easy button.
    I'm suggesting exactly that you go earn XP while actually playing the game.

    I'm saying getting free levelling XP in something unrelated while sitting at cap in something else would be easy button.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    A better comparison would be like having to level on heroic, say as a fighter but using sorc enhancements.
    No, because the suggetions I'm disagreeing with are all asking to KEEP THE FULL POWER OF A CAPPED ED. So it's not like levelling anything.

  13. #73
    Community Member AeliusMaximus's Avatar
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    This "idea" of leveling destinies while not actually playing them is beyond lame. It would be like playing a sorc for 13 lives and getting credit for completionist ... dream on. It absolutely has parallels .. hello, they both require leveling/xping. Talk about easy buttons. Besides, what you're seeking is a way to make your toon uber powerful w/o actually having to do the hard work .. lame.

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    Last edited by AeliusMaximus; 01-30-2013 at 10:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    That would be true if you actually got some advantages from leveling most ED's. But most are just taken because they are on the path to where you want to go or because leveling useless ED's are the only way to get fate points.

    To use your TR analogy, it would be like making everyone TR their paladin into a monk to be able to then TR into the fighter you actually wanted while only allowing 3 past life feats and needing 15 past lives to get all of those. That and I don't see a problem with playing your 20th level sorc and putting the xp towards a barb past life if it gives someone a reason to play their sorc rather than EQ or WoW because they simply don't like barbs and feel they can't go any further with the character they do like to play. At a substantial penalty of course.
    It is a progression. If you start a wizard into destinies you are in the arcane circle. To get to the other circles that are not arcane you have to level up to them.

    What I dont like is if you TR you are still in that arcane circle (regardless of what you TR into). However, I dont have a problem with forcing an arcane to level up arcane destinies to open up non arcanes.

  15. #75
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Seriously, it's not.

    The only way ED is parallel to TR is if your first life locks in your class forever, then every subsequent life you're stuck with that main class but are forced to choose enhancements from the TR class.
    I don't understand. Are you trying to say that EDs are a system MORE locked than TRing? It takes what, 3 hours of gameplay to max out a destiny? If you could level 1-20 in 3 hours, maybe you'd have a point. But since you can't, you don't.

    I mean, does your first ED lock your ED forever? What are you trying to say, I'm confused at best...

    Quote Originally Posted by AeliusMaximus View Post
    This "idea" of leveling destinies while not actually playing them is beyond lame. It would be playing a sorc for 13 lives and getting credit for completionist ... dream on. It absolutely has parallels .. hello, they both require leveling/xping. Talk about easy buttons. Besides, what you're seeking is a way to make your toon uber powerful w/o actually having to do the hard work .. lame.

    /not signed
    This. My point exactly

    And before someone mentions TR junkie builds, you'd have to spend a lot in +5 lessers if you wanted to run every life as 14 sorc 1 rogue 5 X class, you can kinda do the same now with shears of fate I guess, but the point is you can't level as 20 sorc 14 times and still get completionist, and you obviously shouldn't be able to level all EDs while only playing your favorite.
    Last edited by FengXian; 01-30-2013 at 09:48 AM.
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  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    I mean, does your first ED lock your ED forever? What are you trying to say, I'm confused at best...
    What I'm saying is destinies are an enhancement system. When you level to 20 on, say, a sorc, and you find yourself in the barbarian destiny trying to grind out fate points, you're a sorcerer with barbarian enhancemnts. That's what makes it lame. No matter what destiny you go to, you're locked into being a sorc because you are a sorc, despite the enhancements you get being for barbarians, monks, fighters, paladins, etc...

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeliusMaximus View Post
    This "idea" of leveling destinies while not actually playing them is beyond lame. It would be playing a sorc for 13 lives and getting credit for completionist ... dream on. It absolutely has parallels .. hello, they both require leveling/xping. Talk about easy buttons. Besides, what you're seeking is a way to make your toon uber powerful w/o actually having to do the hard work .. lame.

    /not signed
    I love it when people use the the term "hard work" when it comes to a video game. Also "easy button". "Easy button" and "hard work" in relation to senseless grind is quaint and a complete lazy way to describe wanting to change the way that the arbitrary grind is set up.

    No one is asking for free XP, one still has to grind out that XP.

    TRs? Psshh sure let's talk TR. If I want to level a bard, I only need to take 3 levels of bard(holding at 18) while leveling. Hit up ye olde TP shoppe and bam!, Bard PL. (full disclosure: I have leveled a bard from 1-20 b4 and just wanted to speed through it this life. Much love to Bards). Edit: also, got ninja'd.

    Let's talk nuance and not absolutes when talking about really unnecessary xp grind in less than ideal destinies.
    Last edited by Sonos; 01-30-2013 at 10:10 AM.

  18. #78
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    What I'm saying is destinies are an enhancement system. When you level to 20 on, say, a sorc, and you find yourself in the barbarian destiny trying to grind out fate points, you're a sorcerer with barbarian enhancemnts. That's what makes it lame. No matter what destiny you go to, you're locked into being a sorc because you are a sorc, despite the enhancements you get being for barbarians, monks, fighters, paladins, etc...
    By the time you make it to FotW, if you started as DI, you'll have at least some twists available. Besides you're still a Sorc, it would be nothing like leveling a Sorc with just barb enhancements.

    Even FotW has some abilities that are useful to a Sorc btw. I heard the boulder thing deals great damage with force line; primal scream is nice. And some people actually twist sense weakness on casters to deal 30% more damage to helpless mobs.

    Besides it's so much faster to level an ED...
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    No, because the suggetions I'm disagreeing with are all asking to KEEP THE FULL POWER OF A CAPPED ED. So it's not like levelling anything.
    I understand, no need to yell. Question; have you played say a sorc on a fighter destiny? Or a Wiz on a rogue? Have you noticed something relative to playing ML 23+ quests? That for example you need the DC enhancements in the draconic or wiz destiny to break reflex saves and things like that even on Normal? That would be similar to playing a level 20 sorc but without any PrE - a real disadvantage when playing level 22 quests.

    That is the effect of levelling off destinies with your capped whatever because the reality is that a destiny IS the enhancement system for a Epic level char. I cannot for the life of me land good spells without the wiz and sorc destiny on my sorc. Be it to break reflex saves or otherwise. That is the reality. The destiny isn't just a lil' shiny for your character, it is the extension of an enhancement system. And asking your char to level in Legendary and still remain useful as a caster is like playing level 20 quests with a level 15 sorc. You can, but it won't be pretty.

    And I no one seems to suggest no gain for nuthin'. There are several suggestions for trade offs here. It seems that a lot of these discussions boils down to 'fair' as in I did it so why can't you? Kind of like an old driver saying I did without powersteering so why do you need it?

    This is not about your effort of grinding and 'suffering', which I've done grinding for epic stuff and now we have a much better EN/EH/EE system. And with U17 we're going to see a better augment system. Or with yellow dopant we can deconstruct GS. But in all these suggestions of improvements there's always the notion of 'earning', suggesting that people that want to improve something just want an easy button.

    Here's what I'm saying; I don't want it 'easier'. I want a more fun and functional system - with penalities if needed. Simply because I work for a living. Real life sucks at times. And the last thing I want for my fun and entertainment is for it to be just like work. Maybe that is what make some feel like the 'earned' it, but it's a huge turn off for others. The current Destiny system is a hot mess. We're forced to level in destinies that are counter productive to classes just to unlock fate points to twist. We're forced to work from one end to the map to the other, why I don't know and if we TR everything gets reset except the start point of the destiny. So we're forced to continue working from where we left off.

    Like someone mention - decouple fate points from the progress and let us go whereever we want. By making us get fate points from playing the game and finishing quests (earning XP) and picking destinies that we actually WANT to play we're still 'earning it'. That would make things fun.

    But making 'grind' a item of desire makes it feel like sadomasochism or work. And I cannot for the life of me think that is the destiny system we'd like to desire to be the ultimate system of all.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    By the time you make it to FotW, if you started as DI, you'll have at least some twists available. Besides you're still a Sorc, it would be nothing like leveling a Sorc with just barb enhancements.

    Even FotW has some abilities that are useful to a Sorc btw. I heard the boulder thing deals great damage with force line; primal scream is nice. And some people actually twist sense weakness on casters to deal 30% more damage to helpless mobs.

    Besides it's so much faster to level an ED...
    The reality is that most EDs might have 1 or 2 things that 'works' with a class, but most of them either either low tier or something like tier 4. The rest is not useful.

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