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Thread: ED suggestion!!

  1. #41
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Umm... i just know im going to be popular after saying this, but no, i dont think it should be allowed. I think the ability to level several EDs per life is a bad idea in the first place. The only result the possibility has, is that people believe that they MUST do so. Which they really dont. Its just the belief that having the most powerful toon you can is what makes a game fun raising its head again.

    I find it far better to TR as soon as ive through a certain ED, and then take the next one next life. That way i can always level in an ED that is useful.

    Of course, some people dont want to TR and find this unfair. I cant say anything except that youve made your choice, and now have to live with the fact that it is a grind.
    Your choice is to TR, awesome, good on ya. What does that have to do with the rest of us? I'm on my 12th life on one toon and although I got extremely lucky and was able to open another sphere from one life to the next, essentially choosing a wholly different destiny, I have not been able to since. Your choice locks you into a sphere anyway, still grindy.


    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    What i foresee happening is that people will get bored since they already have everything, and start demanding more content, and more EDs faster.

    If you burn yourself out grinding out the EDs, then youre no longer having fun. Why do it, if it causes you to burn out. Getting the best possible combination of EDs wont make you any happier. Its the desire to get them that drives people now, when you have them all, youll start looking around and wondering what to do next.
    There are wonderful options to this, they are called character slots. The notion that the carrot must be tossed so far out is romantic sure, but also ridiculous.

    I can respect your dissension to the suggestions made on the topic, but at least make some sense.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Have you ever gotten what you really, REALLY wanted to have, and when you finally got it, found out that it didnt make you as happy as you thought it would. Thats what you want to happen *** getting the EDs done faster. The end result wont make you happy for long, because it was th edesire to get there that made you grind.

    In your example youre not having fun if the grind is harder. Try to do it in a way that is not a grind at all, but just having fun. In other words, make your sole goal to have fun, and forget about the end result, youll get there sooner or later anyway.
    Actually fun makes me want to play more. My end goal is not to have all the destinies unlocked. In fact the idea of grinding the same stuff over and over just to get a twist makes my stomach turn. Now the idea doing what I do now and still benefit from it makes me want to run things more often. And no - I can't get to say an end goal (if a specific twist is an end goal) by not doing it at all. I can only get there by doing something I detest and would make my quit in a heartbeat. Just sayin'. I love the journey, but having someone kick my leg all the way there doesn't want me to take one single step forward.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Umm.. i dont consider having fun while playing a computer game grinding. I dont run the same quests over and over to get the maximum of xp from them. If i cant get an item when i run a quest, then so be it.

    Just doing isnt grinding, its doing something that you dont like over and over again in order to get something you want in order to start the process somewhere else. Thats grinding.
    Wow, that sounds a lot like the current ED system as well as the TR system.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    What i foresee happening is that people will get bored since they already have everything, and start demanding more content, and more EDs faster.

    If you burn yourself out grinding out the EDs, then youre no longer having fun. Why do it, if it causes you to burn out. Getting the best possible combination of EDs wont make you any happier. Its the desire to get them that drives people now, when you have them all, youll start looking around and wondering what to do next.
    You could TR!

    Really though i see others saying that you pick one destiny and use it..but thats not really true. I like to use a lot of the destinies. Pally using bard or sorcer is fun (as well as they melee driven eds). Im not at all scared to take my pally on a raid in the bard or sorcer tree..allows for some odd ball things that end up being fairly effective. Sure, I dont get 150 AC and 1300 HP...but I do get some other cool toys (and hell im fine with 100 ac and 1000 hp).

    IT ALL COMES DOWN TO YOU AND YOUR PLAY STYLE. All of it.

  5. #45
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    i just don't think that's true. People who like ddo doesn't like it because grinding for something appeals to them. Before ed's i still rant tons of different content; be it just to play the game or for a specific item. I never had a plan really. And if i didn't want to run something on my sorc i ran on one of my alts or even started levelling a whole new alt. What drives people away from a game is the lack of stimulation - grind can be equally unatractive to a gamer as can 'having nothing to do'. In fact if i had a character just as i wanted him i'd still hang around to see what's coming next. But there was a time when i quit outright for a month or so and that's when the mindless grind ate away at my sanity.

    And this is one of the reasons why i won't level another off destiny because it's heartbreaking boring to grind out stuff that won't do anything good for my toon. If i on the other hand slowly levelled in off destinies i'd see progress. I would have fun running my guy and now and then would have the opportunity to twist in something i'd like to use. But anyways - i've made my 2 cents clear over and over. And people are most likely right that says turbine won't do this. It's a pity; it's kind of like convincing a company to let you work from home because the technology exist to do so compared to the traditional idea of having to be there and pay more in overhead by keeping that 'office' where someone can theoretically keep an eye on you. As if working in the leasure of your home which means less stress, less traffic and less office politics is somehow bad. Roughly translated; if i liked my job to much i might actually leave because i'm to satisfied.
    exactly!!
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  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Have you ever gotten what you really, REALLY wanted to have, and when you finally got it, found out that it didnt make you as happy as you thought it would.
    Well, my two biggest grinds to-date have been a torc for my wizard and pally, and a goristro for my pally. I can say without reservation that the torcs made me happier than I could have ever hoped. The goristro is also making me very happy, but I haven't been able to play the pally much since pulling it because I have so much else to do.

    If I got off-destiny xp, I'd be taking my pally and ranger through eElites for favor and fun. Because that xp is useless to me now, I'm instead tring my cleric through a wizard life. (Which I would do anyway.) But instead of being able to switch back and forth depending on my mood, I have a huge incentive to stick with the wizzie tr life because taking my melees through eElites just feels so incredibly pointless.

  7. #47
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    Its certainly painful to grind hours of unpleasantness to unlock a destiny or acquire a fate point.

    I definitely agree that an xp hit is a fair tradeoff to staying in destiny and earning peripheral progress in another destiny, the quest is just how much xp.

    Or maybe you are just under the influence of "Tempt Fate" while doing this and occasionally have a pile of maruts spawn and surprise attack you.
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  8. #48
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    During Beta of MotU, the original plan was for "Character Level" for purposes of XP, overlevel penalties, and powerlevel penalties, to be equal to 20 + your current ED level, and your "epic levels" had no meaning at all. Unfortunately, none of the grouping tools supported this value, and it was reported back what an annoyance it was - you couldn't lock out people that were too high level from your quest, or tell what level they would be counted as, etc. But it would have worked nicer for that TR feel - you were just "TR"ing back to lvl 20 to work on another ED, only you had more flexibility to switch back when you wanted.

    So they scrapped that notion entirely, but they left the rest of the system in place. Partly because they'd already build the revenue stream on it - store items to help you navigate the tree faster.

    I really doubt we'll see any response from dev on this annoyance anytime soon. Maybe a store item that does the "XP spillover" into another destiny.

  9. #49
    Community Member Chilldude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilger View Post
    My personal suggestion is if want to stay in main destiny then why not make us take a xp hit like 25-50% hit if want to put xp towards a different line while staying in main line.
    This idea is just plain obvious, and really the only reasonable way to do it. Right now there is only one way to level epic destinies...
    1. get to level 25
    2. faceroll impossible demands or house of rusted blades 400-500 times
    3. profit???


    Was that the intention of the developers? Obviously they created quests where it is possible to achieve the quest objective in under 2 mins, so it must be their intention. How is this fun? I'd never be able to facegrind a quest 500 times in a row, so I guess I'll never have maxed destinies or high tier twists. However, if I could just play the game, the way I want to play it, in the destiny I enjoy playing with, all the while earning some amount of XP toward my other destinies... I must be mad.

    --- edit ---

    If it's about the money, then by all means, please just go ahead and sell a stone of epic destiny that maxes everything out.
    Last edited by Chilldude; 01-29-2013 at 04:14 PM.

  10. #50
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibor View Post

    I really doubt we'll see any response from dev on this annoyance anytime soon. Maybe a store item that does the "XP spillover" into another destiny.
    Even that would work if you could choose where the spill occurred at a penalty. Theyy would make money and give a lot of people what we want!!
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    When i Tr a toon, i dont consider him any more powerful, just a different class. If you wish to progress at endgame, go ahead. But wanting it to be easier? It would take away most of the achievement from it. When i choose to TR, i accept the fact that the next life ill need more XP each level. I dont demand for the XP costs to be lowered (go ahead and check if you wish). The game is easy enough as it is, no need to make i any easier.

    Oh, and by easy, i dont mean not difficult, i mean not needing any effort.
    So how is having to earn more xp in order to progress in a manner that isn't disjointed "not needing any effort"? Personally, I would much rather just play the character I like playing in the manner I like playing it 2, 5 even 10 times as much knowing that I'm progressing, rather than setting aside some of that progress in order to progress further. This is probably why I never saw the appeal to TRing.

  12. #52
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibor View Post
    I really doubt we'll see any response from dev on this annoyance anytime soon. Maybe a store item that does the "XP spillover" into another destiny.
    Rollover minutes. :P

  13. #53
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    Personally, I would have found it better if players had been free to choose any destiny and free to switch destinies at any time, but fate points could only be earned while playing in a capped destiny. Say 1 million xp for the first point, 2 million more for the second, 3 million more for the third...to wherever Turbine wishes to cap it.

    That way the only time spent in an off destiny was that spent earning the abilities one wishes to twist in unless a player chooses to do so for their own reasons.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Personally, I would have found it better if players had been free to choose any destiny and free to switch destinies at any time, but fate points could only be earned while playing in a capped destiny. Say 1 million xp for the first point, 2 million more for the second, 3 million more for the third...to wherever Turbine wishes to cap it.

    That way the only time spent in an off destiny was that spent earning the abilities one wishes to twist in unless a player chooses to do so for their own reasons.
    Excellent idea; baking fate points into the process of leveling a destiny just add frustration to the process. And having a disjointed 'map' where you start at one end and have to work yourself all the way to the other by doing things that adds nothing but frustration.

    And even worse - a system that penalizes you for doing the same quests too many times just for the effort of grinding XP. At least figure out a XP timer system where it resets the times done after 3-4 days. As it is Turbine have created a counter carrot, more like a stick in your eye for working on a system can could if done right feel like a reward.

    I mean look at the improvements to the TR process with streaks and tomes - all that provides enough XP to make the process manageble, and look at how arcane the destiny system feels which brings you back to the worst part of the levelling process. An unrewarded experience of grinding features with little or no benefits to your character and doing the same quests over and over until you don't recieve much of a reward doing so.

    And the only way you can 'fix' that is to do the thing most people don't want to do and that is to TR and therefore 'reset' your progress.

  15. #55
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    The most irritating things about destinies to me are the circles and limitations on switching destinies. If I TR and run back up to 20, I should be allowed to start in the circle for my TR class. I'd also like to see some modification to the circles. It seems like they should be some sort of setup where LD, US, and FOTW are linked; EA, Draconic, and Magister are linked: GOF, Shadowdancer, Shiradi, and PA are linked.

  16. #56
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    So it seems I'm in the minority, at least on the forums. I think the current system is more fair and logical than these proposals, which just seem like requests for easy buttons.

    Why should you get the power from levelling an ED without putting in the effort of actually levelling it?

    It really is the same as TRing. These proposals are like asking to keep playing a level-20 Sorc and send XP towards getting a Barbarian past life, without having to play Barbarian.

    But if you want it, you have to start back over at the lowest level ("delevel"), whether it be Heroic Level 1 or a brand new ED, and work through the class or ED you want the benefit from, be it Fate Points or Past Life feat.

    Gettting all the advantages of a maxxed ED (or class) while levelling a different ED (or class) would be unbalanced and unfair.

  17. #57
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    So it seems I'm in the minority, at least on the forums. I think the current system is more fair and logical than these proposals, which just seem like requests for easy buttons.

    Why should you get the power from levelling an ED without putting in the effort of actually levelling it?

    It really is the same as TRing. These proposals are like asking to keep playing a level-20 Sorc and send XP towards getting a Barbarian past life, without having to play Barbarian.

    But if you want it, you have to start back over at the lowest level ("delevel"), whether it be Heroic Level 1 or a brand new ED, and work through the class or ED you want the benefit from, be it Fate Points or Past Life feat.

    Gettting all the advantages of a maxxed ED (or class) while levelling a different ED (or class) would be unbalanced and unfair.
    You're not alone.

    Though, I wouldn't mind a system with more ... mobility to move around to the Destines you want instead of the ones you don't - you'll do the ones you don't want so you can get the fate points anyway. I wouldn't mind if that system even took longer / more XP.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    So it seems I'm in the minority, at least on the forums. I think the current system is more fair and logical than these proposals, which just seem like requests for easy buttons.

    Why should you get the power from levelling an ED without putting in the effort of actually levelling it?

    It really is the same as TRing. These proposals are like asking to keep playing a level-20 Sorc and send XP towards getting a Barbarian past life, without having to play Barbarian.

    But if you want it, you have to start back over at the lowest level ("delevel"), whether it be Heroic Level 1 or a brand new ED, and work through the class or ED you want the benefit from, be it Fate Points or Past Life feat.

    Gettting all the advantages of a maxxed ED (or class) while levelling a different ED (or class) would be unbalanced and unfair.
    That would be true if you actually got some advantages from leveling most ED's. But most are just taken because they are on the path to where you want to go or because leveling useless ED's are the only way to get fate points.

    To use your TR analogy, it would be like making everyone TR their paladin into a monk to be able to then TR into the fighter you actually wanted while only allowing 3 past life feats and needing 15 past lives to get all of those. That and I don't see a problem with playing your 20th level sorc and putting the xp towards a barb past life if it gives someone a reason to play their sorc rather than EQ or WoW because they simply don't like barbs and feel they can't go any further with the character they do like to play. At a substantial penalty of course.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    So it seems I'm in the minority, at least on the forums. I think the current system is more fair and logical than these proposals, which just seem like requests for easy buttons.

    Why should you get the power from levelling an ED without putting in the effort of actually levelling it?

    It really is the same as TRing. These proposals are like asking to keep playing a level-20 Sorc and send XP towards getting a Barbarian past life, without having to play Barbarian.

    But if you want it, you have to start back over at the lowest level ("delevel"), whether it be Heroic Level 1 or a brand new ED, and work through the class or ED you want the benefit from, be it Fate Points or Past Life feat.

    Gettting all the advantages of a maxxed ED (or class) while levelling a different ED (or class) would be unbalanced and unfair.
    FAIL
    its nowhere like leveling an Sorc and getting Barb PL.
    its like leveling a Sorc with only melee attacks and Str 8
    its plain stupid, thats it
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  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Why should you get the power from levelling an ED without putting in the effort of actually levelling it?
    Because leveling it is a meaningless endeavor when it's an incompatible destiny, like barbs and sorcs leveling each other's primary destinies.

    It really is the same as TRing. These proposals are like asking to keep playing a level-20 Sorc and send XP towards getting a Barbarian past life, without having to play Barbarian.
    It really is not. The current system is like having to play a sorc life but you get the barbarian enhancement list instead of sorc, and vice versa. Frenzied Berserker sorc, and water savant barbarian? Yeah, great system.

    EDIT: To clarify, if I could actually have a pure 20 of that class to level each destiny, then yeah, it would be pretty fun and then would actually be like the TR comparison people love to make. As in, level up a sorc, max draconic, then when you switch to fatesinger you get a temporary LR into a pure 20 bard for leveling fatesinger. Then when you hop over to shadowdancer, you get a temporary pure 20 rogue for that leveling. Short of that, the comparison to TRing simply falls flat.

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