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Thread: ED suggestion!!

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    ALL the people in this thread are asking for is the simplest possible fix for this horrible system, allow us to earn XP for an inactive destiny.
    Really? Because you can do that right now. Just don't use any of the abilites of the destiny you are on, and it is effectively inactive.

    Of course, that's NOT what people are asking for. They're asking to keep the full power of a maxxed-out ED while getting free bonus credit for levelling something. Sorry, one or the other. Use the maxxed out ED, or be lower level and go level something.

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    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Really? Because you can do that right now. Just don't use any of the abilites of the destiny you are on, and it is effectively inactive.

    Of course, that's NOT what people are asking for. They're asking to keep the full power of a maxxed-out ED while getting free bonus credit for levelling something. Sorry, one or the other. Use the maxxed out ED, or be lower level and go level something.
    2 toons sitiing on a bell, can you tell which one is.... nvm, I think that the people that don't get it, never will. Let's leave it at that.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    you choose a class, you play that class, you get good at that class, your abilities in that class grow.
    I agree with that. And with:

    "you choose an epic destiny, you play that epic destiny, you get good at that epic destiny, your abilities in that epic destiny grow."

    And that's how the system works right now. People are asking to change it to:

    "You choose an epic destiny and never play it, and somehow magically have your abilities grow and get good at it for free."

    If you want the power from that destiny, go play it. If you don't want to play some destiny you consider "off", then don't. There's nothing complicated or difficult here.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    ...face roll House of Rusted Blades 500 times in a row...
    You really seem hung up on this Rusted Blades thing.

    Maybe people would enjoy the game more if they played more different quests. And maybe they'd realize that levelling up destinies, right now, without cop-out freebie easy buttons, is already plenty easy WITHOUT Rusted farming.

    With the continuous references to Rusted, I get the feeling the people who hate levelling an "off" destiny have never actually done it, just farmed Rusted. I suggest folks actually go USE the destiny they are levelling up, in real quests. I suspect most folks will find:
    1) Being in some other destiny does not make them useless
    2) Other destinies are not useless
    3) Levelling up destines without farming Rusted is quite easy and practical
    4) Levelling up destines without farming Rusted is a lot more fun

    And, after realizing those things, would realize they don't need another even easier easy button.

  5. #245
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    Pretty sure most people got the analogy that the proposition is no easier button than the way it's brute forced now, would take twice as long and yet be enjoyable for those few. But it is telling that you couldn't wrap your mind around the visual representation of your easy button fallacy.

    Your TR vs. ED fruit cocktail has been annihilated pages ago. One has the ability to level heroic bi-proxy. Some of us are asking to be able to do it in EDs albeit in some other form than a +5 heart. This is the only Venn diagram between the two and magically, it dispels anything you are trying to say about it.
    You're not asking for something like 14 sorc 1 rogue 5 X class and then +5 lesser = PL in X class.

    You're asking for 20 (or 25) sorc playing end game for a while and puff! magically PL in X class.

    And then you're talking random stuff about fruit and bells and pictures in people's heads...are you ok? :P
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  6. #246
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    You really seem hung up on this Rusted Blades thing.

    Maybe people would enjoy the game more if they played more different quests. And maybe they'd realize that levelling up destinies, right now, without cop-out freebie easy buttons, is already plenty easy WITHOUT Rusted farming.

    With the continuous references to Rusted, I get the feeling the people who hate levelling an "off" destiny have never actually done it, just farmed Rusted. I suggest folks actually go USE the destiny they are levelling up, in real quests. I suspect most folks will find:
    1) Being in some other destiny does not make them useless
    2) Other destinies are not useless
    3) Levelling up destines without farming Rusted is quite easy and practical
    4) Levelling up destines without farming Rusted is a lot more fun

    And, after realizing those things, would realize they don't need another even easier easy button.
    I am glad you know what everyone is doing!!

    I have lvled ED and it is very painful and can burn ya quick without rusted. I barely run rusted. For instance my FVS is just getting through magister and started in exalted and I have played it all the way there and it is a burn. (WITHOUT RUSTED)

    I am fine doing it that way and have been and been burning quick. So been switching between all my 22-25 (10+) characters doing destinies which is helping the burnout.

    I really want to finish my FVS and will someday, but not having fun in lines where I have to grind through sucks. He is almost there and that's why when talking with friends thought at a cost it would be a lot more fun if could stay in main. Not for free but at a hit. So I have been there and done all you say. It did cause me to leave game for a few months as stated before.

    So all who think I have no clue are wrong I have been there and done that and will in future, but who knows with the non-fun/grind factor the next new shiny will be where I go with my money. Not a threat they don't care about one acct. , but how many more will do it also if the fun-factor sucks.
    Last edited by Bilger; 01-31-2013 at 07:53 PM.
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  7. #247
    Community Member Levonestral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    If you want the power from that destiny, go play it. If you don't want to play some destiny you consider "off", then don't. There's nothing complicated or difficult here.
    Okay, let's roll with this for a moment.

    The biggest problem that I personally have with the destinies is the earning of fate points in order to use twists. I don't mind running a destiny in order to obtain the levels needed for something I want to twist, but once I have those all completed, the grind of remaining destinies just for the purpose of earning fate points is a bit of a drag.


    Suggestion #1:

    Let's combine your thought with the idea of wanting to play your preferred class as OP is suggesting.

    Break out the destinies so they are no longer "chained" to each other. Allow players to choose any destiny they want to work with at any time.

    In order to obtain levels in a given destiny for the purpose of twisting, they will have to choose the destiny directly and then play it as needed.

    Any xp earned would go toward that destiny as it does now.


    Suggestion #2:

    We also want Fate Points. Currently the only way to obtain these is through continued grinding of destinies we typically don't want anything from.

    Separate the xp for fate points into it's own area. Any xp earned, should it be from being in a capped destiny, or by working through another one should all go toward the total needed to earn each fate point.

    Fate XP earned while in a non-capped destiny would earn the full xp amount. Fate XP earned while in a capped destiny would be at a loss (like 50%)

    Yes, it would make it "easier" to earn fate points, but also removes the "grind" of working through destinies you have no intention to obtain anything from.


    These combined still make it so you have to "earn" your twists by playing that particular destiny, but removes the grind needed to obtain the fate points needed to use the twists.

    I'm not sure if this would be considered even more of an "easy button" solution, but figured I'd suggest it as food for thought.
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  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    You're not asking for something like 14 sorc 1 rogue 5 X class and then +5 lesser = PL in X class.

    You're asking for 20 (or 25) sorc playing end game for a while and puff! magically PL in X class.

    And then you're talking random stuff about fruit and bells and pictures in people's heads...are you ok? :P
    So let's put the the cocktail in a blender? 20-25 doesn't give a PL. I'll try and type slower so you can understand:

    There is a mechanic that allows one to level 5 levels by-proxy for heroic.

    There is no mechanic that allows one to level 5 levels of a destiny nor epic levels by-proxy. See that? I didn't have to mix the fruits to make a point. They are in their respective sides of the plate.

    Not gonna drink your smoothie, but thanks for the offer.
    Last edited by Sonos; 02-01-2013 at 12:25 AM.

  9. #249
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levonestral View Post
    Okay, let's roll with this for a moment.

    The biggest problem that I personally have with the destinies is the earning of fate points in order to use twists. I don't mind running a destiny in order to obtain the levels needed for something I want to twist, but once I have those all completed, the grind of remaining destinies just for the purpose of earning fate points is a bit of a drag.


    Suggestion #1:

    Let's combine your thought with the idea of wanting to play your preferred class as OP is suggesting.

    Break out the destinies so they are no longer "chained" to each other. Allow players to choose any destiny they want to work with at any time.

    In order to obtain levels in a given destiny for the purpose of twisting, they will have to choose the destiny directly and then play it as needed.

    Any xp earned would go toward that destiny as it does now.


    Suggestion #2:

    We also want Fate Points. Currently the only way to obtain these is through continued grinding of destinies we typically don't want anything from.

    Separate the xp for fate points into it's own area. Any xp earned, should it be from being in a capped destiny, or by working through another one should all go toward the total needed to earn each fate point.

    Fate XP earned while in a non-capped destiny would earn the full xp amount. Fate XP earned while in a capped destiny would be at a loss (like 50%)

    Yes, it would make it "easier" to earn fate points, but also removes the "grind" of working through destinies you have no intention to obtain anything from.


    These combined still make it so you have to "earn" your twists by playing that particular destiny, but removes the grind needed to obtain the fate points needed to use the twists.

    I'm not sure if this would be considered even more of an "easy button" solution, but figured I'd suggest it as food for thought.
    This is a great idea. Personally combining both would prob work out nicely and satisfy the people who say looking for easy button.
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  10. #250
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    So let's put the the cocktail in a blender? 20-25 doesn't give a PL. I'll try and type slower so you can understand:

    There is a mechanic that allows one to level 5 levels by-proxy for heroic.

    There is no mechanic that allows one to level 5 levels of a destiny nor epic levels by-proxy. See that? I didn't have to mix the fruits to make a point. They are in their respective sides of the plate.

    Not gonna drink your smoothie, but thanks for the offer.

    An excellent example of the uncivil part of one side im afraid.
    Last edited by bartharok; 02-01-2013 at 01:25 AM.

  11. #251
    Community Member Chilldude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    If you want the power from that destiny, go play it. If you don't want to play some destiny you consider "off", then don't. There's nothing complicated or difficult here.
    Nobody wants the power from that destiny, that's the entire problem! We're finally getting somewhere. You're right though, there's nothing difficult here. Putting a second door handle on a door doesn't make it any easier to open, so it's not an easy button. Adding a second way to earn ED XP doesn't make it any easier to earn, so it's not an easy button.

    Nobody wants to be max level in a destiny while earning ED XP in another destiny so that they can face roll Impossible Demands even faster.

    That's what you need to understand here. It's already super, duper, super, easy button, super, duper, super simple to face roll impossible demands or rusted blades. PEOPLE DO NOT NEED MAXED DESTINIES TO DO IT. Nor would having maxed destinies make it any faster or easier in any way!

    SO THAT IS DEFINITELY NOT why people want to earn XP toward an inactive destiny.

    People want to earn XP toward an inactive destiny because they want to eventually be able to twist in an ability from another destiny and the fate point requirement basically requires most of the destinies to be leveled because fate points are only acquired at a rate of 1 per 3 ED levels. SINCE YOU CAN NOT start over in an ED you enjoy playing and that makes sense with your character....

    YOU ARE FORCED TO LEVEL ED'S THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CHARACTER AT ALL in order to earn the fate points required to unlock the twist slots.

    Nobody wants "all the power from that destiny". They DON'T WANT TO LEVEL IT PRECISELY BECAUSE IT HOLDS NO POWER FOR THEIR CHARACTER!

  12. #252
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    So let's put the the cocktail in a blender? 20-25 doesn't give a PL. I'll try and type slower so you can understand:

    There is a mechanic that allows one to level 5 levels by-proxy for heroic.

    There is no mechanic that allows one to level 5 levels of a destiny nor epic levels by-proxy. See that? I didn't have to mix the fruits to make a point. They are in their respective sides of the plate.

    Not gonna drink your smoothie, but thanks for the offer.
    So you are NOT suggesting to give part of the xp (50% or w/e) to an off ED while running in a capped ED. Because that would be like playing a capped sorc in the aforementioned example.

    Instead, you are suggesting to do with EDs something like 14 sorc 1 rogue 5 X + lesser +5.

    You are basically suggesting to level main ED to 5, than REMOVE all the xp from that ED and add it to another unleveled ED via an expensive store item, and then restart leveling the main ED from 0 and repeat. This is what would have to happen if you want to base yourself on the way proxy leveling works for heroic levels.

    Sorry, I don't think it's a good idea. But do keep trying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    snip
    The easier/faster issue has already been adressed. It's been proved it would indeed be easier/faster since you'd be able to level EDs while running content you'd be running in your main ED anyway.

    If you need NOTHING from the EDs you're leveling (not a twist, not even the fate points!) I agree you should be able to skip them, to select any ED on the wheels.

    Maybe you should be able to do so every time you hit 20, or anytime if you've unlocked them once per server via regular system. But the proxy leveling idea doesn't work. You want us to believe it's just a matter of having fun? Sorry, not buying it, I think it's a matter of "easy buttons" for people who don't want to use the one that's already there.
    Last edited by FengXian; 02-01-2013 at 04:33 AM.
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  13. #253

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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    TRs and EDs are not apples and oranges. They are very similar under the point of view we're discussing. TRs even provide a smaller bonus and take way longer to grind out.

    But if some people say they're related and other say "no they're not", how do we decide who's right? I can say they're related because there's a parallelism between classes and EDs, because enhancements work in a similar way to abilities, because twisting is a reduced form of multiclassing, because both require xp to be leveled...they have many, many things in common but there no way to 100% prove that TRs are like EDs. So you'll always be able to say "apples and oranges" and we'll get nowhere.

    About starting position...yeah I agree it might as well be freely selectable every life.

    @Sonos: if you still don't understand, I guess you're the one who needs pictures. You're talking apples and nebulas...far beyond oranges at this point

    TR's and ED's are apples and oranges statements. TRing heroic levels has nothing to do with ED's. ED's are like the enhancement system of Epic levels. Unless you're making a statement that we should be able to freely use any class PrEs during levelling or such, you're not talking about the same thing.

    Tortured logic and straw man arguments remain the same no matter how much time and words you put into it. Feel free to argue against or for the OP or any other ideas on the merit of what they are, but as soon as you drag in entirely separate systems into the conversation then it's more like a monkey furiously trying to whack pieces of puzzle into place with a hammer (note that this analogy is not comparing you to the monkey only the idea that you can fit information and logic into place with any type of process).

  14. #254

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Really? Because you can do that right now. Just don't use any of the abilites of the destiny you are on, and it is effectively inactive.

    Of course, that's NOT what people are asking for. They're asking to keep the full power of a maxxed-out ED while getting free bonus credit for levelling something. Sorry, one or the other. Use the maxxed out ED, or be lower level and go level something.
    How can people keep making the assumption that people want to something for free and ignore the penalty? Just wondering.

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    The idea is that you have a choice of what to focus on.
    Why should the game 'refund' players for using their most powerful settings ?
    If you dont like capped states, then dont cap.

    The focus of the ED system is to earn fate points for building your personal combo of fates.
    And the top-end abiliteies are not 'punishments' they are rewards.
    Last edited by oldkraft2; 02-01-2013 at 05:16 AM.

  16. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    So you are NOT suggesting to give part of the xp (50% or w/e) to an off ED while running in a capped ED. Because that would be like playing a capped sorc in the aforementioned example(...)
    Last night I window farmed impossible demands with my laptop running my wife's account. It wasn't as fast or as efficient as with a full group but it was faster then doing it what should be the traditional way of doing a quest, go back claim reward and go back at it.

    But there you go; it's really what most people do when TRing as well. Window farm the same quests that provide the fastest way of getting lots of XP. No skill needed really other then learning the quest and how to cut the most corners. It's really easy too. I could do the same with Rusted Blade or whatever quest is the easiest to finish in the shortest amount of time. It's not really how it should be but there you have it. I know that the sense of fairness is a stickler for you; no amount of penalty will never overcome the fact that if someone have fun it ain't work and if it ain't work then you're not doing it right. Regardless if the outcome is the same; most people will run the easiest quest over and over to do it - the OPs way would require more quests done that way and someone doing it 'the way it should be when you work' would take less time. But lets not for a moment assume that the people working would pick a different quest on a harder difficulty, because they will too use the gold standard to quest in order to maximize the outcome.

    In fact, your way of doing it almost guarantee it by nature of the work you're asking for.

    OP's suggestion, regardless if you think it's easy and lazy (someone elses word) doesn't.

  17. #257
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    How can people keep making the assumption that people want to something for free and ignore the penalty? Just wondering.
    It is not a penalty. It is a huge bonus. As thinsg stand now, if you wish to play a capped destiny, you gain no XP for any destiny. You wish to get the bonus of being able to play your capped destiny AND gain XP in another. There is absolutely no penalty involved, only a bonus.

  18. #258
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    It is not a penalty. It is a huge bonus. As thinsg stand now, if you wish to play a capped destiny, you gain no XP for any destiny. You wish to get the bonus of being able to play your capped destiny AND gain XP in another. There is absolutely no penalty involved, only a bonus.
    Absolutely.

    But this is just a waste of time. I see the same questions, answered multiple times, being repeated again and again.

    How can people keep making the assumption that people want to something for free and ignore the penalty? Just wondering.
    Like this. I think I've answered this what? 4? 5 times? And not just me...so what's the point of discussing, if you're gonna completely ignore what we're saying and just restart from the beginning now and then? Waste of time.
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  19. #259
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    So you are NOT suggesting to give part of the xp (50% or w/e) to an off ED while running in a capped ED. Because that would be like playing a capped sorc in the aforementioned example.

    Instead, you are suggesting to do with EDs something like 14 sorc 1 rogue 5 X + lesser +5.

    You are basically suggesting to level main ED to 5, than REMOVE all the xp from that ED and add it to another unleveled ED via an expensive store item, and then restart leveling the main ED from 0 and repeat. This is what would have to happen if you want to base yourself on the way proxy leveling works for heroic levels.

    Sorry, I don't think it's a good idea. But do keep trying.
    Yeah, no. You'll never get it. They really are not comparable.

    If after an implementation of the OPs suggestion were put in place and 2 characters were sitting there on a bell in Rusted Blades, the one not in their main maxed destiny would be earning more xp, while the other would be gaining half. Who wins here?

    Then the maxed destiny character says, hey, I wanna go run some EE High Road with some guild mates. You are the one that says, swap out, and stand on this bell like a man.

    If you don't get that, I think we are pretty much done with the conversation.

    Personally I don't think it will be implemented, but heaven forbid, there should be something that makes the grind a little more fun... not shorter and not easier.... more fun.

  20. #260
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    Absolutely.

    But this is just a waste of time. I see the same questions, answered multiple times, being repeated again and again.



    Like this. I think I've answered this what? 4? 5 times? And not just me...so what's the point of discussing, if you're gonna completely ignore what we're saying and just restart from the beginning now and then? Waste of time.
    The problem is that they really want it. That makes everything we say evil

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