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  1. #1

    Default Confused and would love some answers

    I've been reading the developer notes, the ddo wiki entry on epic destinies, and some of the posts by others, but I'm still a bit confused.

    Essentially I'm worried about jumping into epic destinies with my main and permanently messing up his epic destinies, or messing them up to the point I need to buy items from turbine to fix it.

    I've read that the epic destiny you pick your first life is the one you are stuck using until you unlock a new one and branch out to it. This remains through reincarnation, so if my WF Wizard chooses the Magister Epic destiny, then Tr's into a monk and I want to be a master of flowers I have to level up in magister to unlock Draconic Incarnation. Level draconic to unlock Fate Singer to unlock Shadow Dancer to unlock Grand Master of Flowers.

    Suppose I then realize Shiradi is the shiznips and I want that. I then have to swap to Legendary Dreadnought and level it to unlock Shiradi. Is this how it works?


    If I decide to use the Shiradi epic destiny, and build so maximize spell power, neglecting the ranged attacks in favor of the spells, and then TR into an Arcane archer can i reset my progress in Shiradi to fix this (like resetting my enhancements)? Will it cost TP to do this?


    The reviews said you can unlock all epic destinies without the use of a tome of fate. Is this true for any epic destiny I start as?


    I'm given a fate point for every 3 levels of an epic destiny I level. I can spend my fate points to unlock up to 3 twists of fate. Are twists of fate used to give a single ability of another class (like a h-elf dilettante)?

    I can use my fate points to branch out into another epic destiny. Is this like multiclassing epic destinies? is this the only way to unlock other epic destinies? would my epic levels be split then between the two?

    Or is this just pausing the first Epic Destiny in order to level the second?
    Analogy:
    -Imagine there is no multiclassing at all
    -You can start as any Class when you create your character.
    -You can only play as that first class you chose until you reach level 10, or 15
    -A Pure Wizard at level 10 unlocks Sorcerer (continues playing as a Wizard)
    -A Pure Wizard at level 15 Unlocks both Sorcerer and Bard.
    -At level 17 the Wizard turns into a level 1 Bard
    -At level 15 the Bard (previously a wizard) unlocks a new Class (Rogue)
    -At bard level 15 he returns to being a level 17 Wizard
    -The Wizard reaches level 20 and decides to play as a Rogue
    -The Wizard can now Play as a level 1 Rogue, a level 1 Sorcerer, a level 20 Wizard, or a level 15 Bard

    is that a decent analogy?

    would twists of fate be like a level splash of another class?

    Any and all answers would be greatly appreciated. If you could quote the part you're answering that would be even better (I have a lot of questions).

    Thank you very much,
    -PaxsMickey

  2. #2
    Community Member ArgentMage's Avatar
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    You can't "mess up" your Epic Destinies. Although the unlocking of other EDs works
    mostly the way you describe, it's actually not that hard to do the unlocking.
    You probably read that you need to get one ED to the third tier to unlock the other
    EDs in the same sphere, and you need to get a border ED to the 4th tier to unlock
    EDs in another sphere. That mechanism is what it is.

    Pretty much everything can be reset for plat (or Astral Shards), so no worries there.

    The only thing I think you misunderstood was Fate points. Fate points allow you to
    use an ability from a different ED than the one that's active. You must have unlocked
    that other ED and then earned enough points to activate that ability, then you can
    put it in your fate slot. Note that you will get your first fate point at the same time
    that you unlock the neighboring EDs in your start sphere.

    If you do TR, then yes, it's possible that you may not have access to the ED that's
    "ideal" for your new life. So, you should either TR into a class for which you have
    an appropriate ED, or you should level your first life toon to 25 and unlock enough
    EDs that you can pick from any of the ones you might want.

  3. #3
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    I've read that the epic destiny you pick your first life is the one you are stuck using until you unlock a new one and branch out to it. This remains through reincarnation, so if my WF Wizard chooses the Magister Epic destiny, then Tr's into a monk and I want to be a master of flowers I have to level up in magister to unlock Draconic Incarnation. Level draconic to unlock Fate Singer to unlock Shadow Dancer to unlock Grand Master of Flowers.
    Close, but not quite. http://ddowiki.com/images/231237.jpg - Magister is connected to both Draconic and Fatesinger. You can get 3 levels in Magister, move to Fatesinger, 4 levels in Fatesinger, move to Shadowdancer, 3 levels in Shadowdancer, move to Grandmaster. That is only like 2.5M xp, you can do that in no time, that's not even enough XP to hit 25.

    If I decide to use the Shiradi epic destiny, and build so maximize spell power, neglecting the ranged attacks in favor of the spells, and then TR into an Arcane archer can i reset my progress in Shiradi to fix this (like resetting my enhancements)? Will it cost TP to do this?
    There's a "reset tree" button on every ED. It costs a tiny amount of pp or astral shards.

    The reviews said you can unlock all epic destinies without the use of a tome of fate. Is this true for any epic destiny I start as?
    You're mixing up unlocking EDs and unlocking Twist of Fate slots. A Tome of Fate adds fate points, which are used to unlock Twist slots.

    I'm given a fate point for every 3 levels of an epic destiny I level. I can spend my fate points to unlock up to 3 twists of fate. Are twists of fate used to give a single ability of another class (like a h-elf dilettante)?
    Twists of Fate let you make active an ability from a non-active (but leveled/trained) tree.

    I can use my fate points to branch out into another epic destiny. Is this like multiclassing epic destinies? is this the only way to unlock other epic destinies? would my epic levels be split then between the two?
    It's not at all like multiclassing and it has nothing to do with unlocking destinies.

    is that a decent analogy?
    No.

    Just go use it, you can't screw anything up.

  4. #4
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    Yes, you do have to travel from destiny to destiny across the map, so if you go sorc/wiz to monk there would be some leveling of the destiny involved. However, leveling a destiny is fairly easy. It takes 1.9 million exp to level a destiny to all ap's and totally done. This sounds like a lot, but when you take into account that it takes 3 million xp to level a toon from 20 to 25, that's nearly a destiny and a half just while you're still leveling. And when your toon is maxed out, you can continue to use the exp from epic quests to level your destiny. In two lives I have max leveled four destinies on my artificer, and am working on destiny five now.

    Further, you don't have to fully max out a destiny to by pass it. The number of dots between the destiny circles tells you how far you have to level it. If there are three dots, you just have to unlock to the third passive destiny (on the row on the bottom) to move on, and some have four (usuallly when moving from related spherse of destinies) to bypass.

    Twisting enables you to lock in an ability you really like and use it all the time from a destiny you're not using.
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  5. #5
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Just jump in. There are some near useless destinies for some classes, but even in those often you can at least grab some useful stat points or a buff/debuff of some kind. In any event, the first three levels in each happens surprisingly fast, even for a more casual player, so its not that hard to shift destinies unless they are on the other end of the map.

    If you want to be a little strategic, you can start with one of the "connecting" fates (you have to start in the group your character is, not necessarily the exact fate).

    So, for example, if your Wizard picked Fatesinger first by levelling that to L4 you unlock Magister, Draconic, and Shadowdancer all at the same time.

    It's also worth noting that you can select any initial destiny in which you have at least 6 levels. So, if you were levelling a 14 FVS/6 fighter, instead of grabbing the obvious FVS destiny of exaulted angel you could instead start as Shadowdancer, Dreadnaught, or GM of flowers.

    I know its a bit daunting at first, but it will all click as soon as you start earning levels and you can see visually what is happening.

  6. #6
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    Just go use it, you can't screw anything up.
    Excellent answers from all who have replied so far.

    The mechanism linking spheres of influence together and requiring 3 levels to unlock an adjacent destiny in the same sphere or 4 to unlock a joining destiny in a different sphere really is not too complex. Many players are, in fact, unlocking every epic destiny on their first go because doing so increases the number of fate points they can have.

    Fate points are the true power in epic destinies. With them you can twist in abilities from destinies that are not active. Because of the way fate points work, it takes progressively more to unlock higher level twists.

    I found this planner to be useful. If you open it and check out the Shadowdancer destiny you'll see Shrouding Strike on the 4th row from the bottom. It is a tier 3 ability. To get your first twist to the point where you could use that tier 3 ability you'd need to earn 1+2+3 fate points (6 total).

    Of course, using that wouldn't do you much good if you couldn't use the abilities that it opens in other places on the tree. Say you wanted the Improved Invisibility on tier 4. You'd need to raise your first twist to accept tier 4 abilities (now you need 10 fate points total) and then you'd need to get your second twist to the point where it can use tier 3 abilities.

    The second twist costs more to build up than the first twist. It's progression is 2+3+4 (so 9 fate points). If you went for something like I'm describing here you'd spend 19 fate points unlocking 2 of the 3 twists you have.

    And, here's where you CAN mess up. Because there are only a limited number of fate points.

    IIRC there are 11 destinies. Each destiny has 6 tiers. 5*11=66. And, you can only earn 1 fate point for every 3 complete tiers. So, 66/3=22. Only 22 fate points to spend unless you buy a fate tome from Turbine. If you unlock every destiny and take them all to their complete form, with 22 fate points you'd be able to twist a t4, t3 and t1 ability.

    (As an aside, at the moment there is a hard cap on the highest level twist. Again, IIRC, it is tier 4. No twisting in tier 5 or 6 abilities.)

    Back to my main point here. If you later discover you really needed t4, t2 and t2 abilities you are stuck. Although you can reset a destiny tree for plat or astral shards, AFAIK there is no way to redistribute your fate points. Once locked in you're stuck. So, no changing from t4, t3 and t1 to t4, t2 and t2 (even though the cost in fate points is exactly the same).

    And note, Turbine only sells a +2 fate tome. You'd need a +4 to fix your mistake -- or wait until Turbine adds another destiny.

  7. #7
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    I've been reading the developer notes, the ddo wiki entry on epic destinies, and some of the posts by others, but I'm still a bit confused.

    Essentially I'm worried about jumping into epic destinies with my main and permanently messing up his epic destinies, or messing them up to the point I need to buy items from turbine to fix it.
    You can reset them and spend the points again, like enhancements points. I don't think you can permanently mess them up, unless there is some bug I dont know about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    I've read that the epic destiny you pick your first life is the one you are stuck using until you unlock a new one and branch out to it. This remains through reincarnation, so if my WF Wizard chooses the Magister Epic destiny, then Tr's into a monk and I want to be a master of flowers I have to level up in magister to unlock Draconic Incarnation. Level draconic to unlock Fate Singer to unlock Shadow Dancer to unlock Grand Master of Flowers.
    basically, yes. but you can go straight from magister to fatesinger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    Suppose I then realize Shiradi is the shiznips and I want that. I then have to swap to Legendary Dreadnought and level it to unlock Shiradi. Is this how it works?
    yup


    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    If I decide to use the Shiradi epic destiny, and build so maximize spell power, neglecting the ranged attacks in favor of the spells, and then TR into an Arcane archer can i reset my progress in Shiradi to fix this (like resetting my enhancements)? Will it cost TP to do this?
    yes, but you can reset them with plat too. It has some weird system where it starts out reasonably priced but the more you reset it within a certain time the price goes up, to rather unreasonable amounts. I'm not sure of the exact numbers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    The reviews said you can unlock all epic destinies without the use of a tome of fate. Is this true for any epic destiny I start as?
    yes, but you cant reach the max [twist of] fate points without the tome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    I'm given a fate point for every 3 levels of an epic destiny I level. I can spend my fate points to unlock up to 3 twists of fate. Are twists of fate used to give a single ability of another class (like a h-elf dilettante)?

    I can use my fate points to branch out into another epic destiny. Is this like multiclassing epic destinies? is this the only way to unlock other epic destinies? would my epic levels be split then between the two?
    lets say you start as a barb in fury of the wild, level it up and then you switch over to legendary dreadnaught. You can use your fate point to activate a twist of fate, and while you are in the legendary dreadnaught destiny you can have one tier 1 ability from fury of the wild. You will be gaining xp in dreadnaught but still have access to 1 ability from fury. as you go through the rest of the destinies and gain more fate points you can unlock other twist of fates, so then you could have 2 abilities from fury or one from fury and one from dreadnaught.

    as you gain even more points you can use them to access even higher tier abilities from whatever destiny you want to twist in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    Or is this just pausing the first Epic Destiny in order to level the second?
    pretty much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    Analogy:
    you have to get magister to level 3 to access fatesinger, because they are in the same sphere. to go from fatesinger to shadow dancer you need to get to level 4 fatesinger, because that is an adjacent sphere. getting shadow dancer to level 3 will onlock legendery dreadnaught and grandmaster of flowers, because they are in the same sphere. getting grand master to level 4 will unlock unyeilding sentinal, and getting legendary dreadnaught to level 4 will unlock fury of the wild. and so on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    would twists of fate be like a level splash of another class?
    somewhat, but a pure fighter in shadowdancer isnt going to be able to do traps, for example. but if he was in unyeilding sentinal he would get a few lay on hands. It depends on what the destiny gives and many of the abilities are kinda useless if you are the wrong class. say a normal str based melee monk in shiradi isnt going to benefit much.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery Karadon_II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    IIRC there are 11 destinies. Each destiny has 6 tiers. 5*11=66. And, you can only earn 1 fate point for every 3 complete tiers. So, 66/3=22. Only 22 fate points to spend unless you buy a fate tome from Turbine. If you unlock every destiny and take them all to their complete form, with 22 fate points you'd be able to twist a t4, t3 and t1 ability.
    I think you may be confusing Epic Destiny Levels with Epic Destiny Tiers.

    There are only 5 Levels in each destiny for which you get a Fate Point for every 3. So that would be 55 Levels [5*11=55] from which you can only earn a maximum of 18 points [54/3=18] (the 55th level does not count currently).

    So that's 18 points maximum [or 20 with +2 tome]

    Your T4/T2/T2 example is not yet achievable, you can max your 18 points for T3/T2/T2 or T4/T2/T1 or use a Tome to get up to 20 Fate points maximum - however you can only currently spend 19 Points - for T4 in slot 1 and T3 in slot 2 but it would then need 3 points [22 points in total] to unlock slot 3 for T1 as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    AFAIK there is no way to redistribute your fate points. Once locked in you're stuck.
    That would be a PITA. Fate point allocation is resettable by the Fatespinner at any time provided you have the cost.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    And, here's where you CAN mess up. Because there are only a limited number of fate points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karadon_II View Post
    Fate point allocation is resettable by the Fatespinner at any time provided you have the cost.
    I just want to reiterate this. You can reset your Twists of Fate completely.

    It's intended that you cannot make permanent "wrong decisions" while leveling Epic Destinies.

  10. #10
    Community Member Standal's Avatar
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    Although it's not permanent, you can screw up rather badly when you dabble in destinies and then TR. I made the mistake of taking the Magister destiny on a wizard and then almost immediately TRing into a battlecleric. I'm now grinding away in a bad destiny for my build and I'm a lot of jumps from anything worthwhile.

    Once you commit to a destiny, I strongly recommend that you position yourself for the next life's initial destiny. Either that or just TR immediately.

  11. #11
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karadon_II View Post
    I think you may be confusing Epic Destiny Levels with Epic Destiny Tiers.

    There are only 5 Levels in each destiny for which you get a Fate Point for every 3. So that would be 55 Levels [5*11=55] from which you can only earn a maximum of 18 points [54/3=18] (the 55th level does not count currently).
    Thanks for catching the mistake. I could not remember it exactly and I've not yet filled out every destiny to know for certain. It is why I started that paragraph with IIRC.

    Obviously I did not so thank you for making the correction.

  12. #12
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    I just want to reiterate this. You can reset your Twists of Fate completely.

    It's intended that you cannot make permanent "wrong decisions" while leveling Epic Destinies.
    Thanks for confirming this. Like with my previous error I tried to cover it with AFAIK. I must be missing where or how to do that. Maybe in the initial dialogue? Because I don't see it when I'm manipulating my destiny -- just the option to reset my tree.

  13. #13

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    WOW that's awesome. Thank you very much everyone, I think I'll save the epic destinies for my next life then, and starting with Grandmaster of flowers I can make my way through the rest.

    One last question:
    If I use a twist of fate to get an ability from another epic destiny with 3 ranks in it do I need to use all three twists to do so, or does one twist give me the option to level it entirely?

    ex.
    If I want to add the +2 tactics bonus from Legendary Dreadnought on my Grandmaster of Flowers would 1 twist of fate allow me to put 3 ranks in it, or would i have to use another twist each time?

    Thanks again,
    -PaxsMickey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paxsmickey View Post
    WOW that's awesome. Thank you very much everyone, I think I'll save the epic destinies for my next life then, and starting with Grandmaster of flowers I can make my way through the rest.

    One last question:
    If I use a twist of fate to get an ability from another epic destiny with 3 ranks in it do I need to use all three twists to do so, or does one twist give me the option to level it entirely?

    ex.
    If I want to add the +2 tactics bonus from Legendary Dreadnought on my Grandmaster of Flowers would 1 twist of fate allow me to put 3 ranks in it, or would i have to use another twist each time?

    Thanks again,
    -PaxsMickey
    It takes only one slot to twist an ability, regardless of how far you have progressed in it. Predicting your next question, you do not need to twist any pre requisites either unless the pre requisite is a stance that must be activated to gain the higher ability (rainbow in Shiradi is a good example of this).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen View Post
    It takes only one slot to twist an ability, regardless of how far you have progressed in it. Predicting your next question, you do not need to twist any pre requisites either unless the pre requisite is a stance that must be activated to gain the higher ability (rainbow in Shiradi is a good example of this).
    Right.

    How they get you is each slot is "more expensive" if you want it to hold a higher level twist.

    For example, your first twist slot costs:

    1 Fate Point to allow a Tier 1 twist
    3 Fate Points to allow a Teir 2 twist
    6 Fate Points to allow a Teir 3 twist
    10 Fate points to allow a Teir 4 twist.

    So, odds are the first time you twist you will only be able to slot a T1 twist, however when you have more fate points saved up you have the option of unlocking more twist slots OR upgrading the slot(s) you have open allowing you to put something ore powerful into them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Thanks for confirming this. Like with my previous error I tried to cover it with AFAIK. I must be missing where or how to do that. Maybe in the initial dialogue? Because I don't see it when I'm manipulating my destiny -- just the option to reset my tree.
    I did it by resetting the tree the fate point was spent in. Then it just gave me back my fate points and I could drag another ED ability into the slot.

    The problem is, you can't play with it the way you can with the ED's. Each ED has an "accept" button. So you can play with all the points. But the fate points do not - once you slot an ability, it's slotted until you reset the entire tree.

    That's kind of annoying, but at least it's not permanent. So no playing around!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standal View Post
    Although it's not permanent, you can screw up rather badly when you dabble in destinies and then TR. I made the mistake of taking the Magister destiny on a wizard and then almost immediately TRing into a battlecleric. I'm now grinding away in a bad destiny for my build and I'm a lot of jumps from anything worthwhile.

    Once you commit to a destiny, I strongly recommend that you position yourself for the next life's initial destiny. Either that or just TR immediately.
    I'm in a somewhat similar situation, though not having TR'ed.

    My Sorceror absolutely LOVES Draconic. I admit that my experience with some of the EDs is limited (to the point of nonexistence on a few), but it would be difficult for me to imagine an ED that has a better synergy with a class. Now, having capped DI, she's moved on to Magister. Her ultimate goal is to get over to Primal Avatar to add Rejuvenating Cocoon. To get there requires (if I understand the process):

    Magister: 3 levels
    Fatesinger: 4 levels
    Shadowdancer: 3 levels
    Dreadnought: 4 levels
    Shiradi: 3 levels

    Only then can she switch to Primal Avatar. SEVENTEEN levels of various EDs, with degrees of usefulness ranging from "some" to "none". All for one skill. Really seems like there should be a better way.
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  18. #18

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    Once again, you guys (and gals) are awesome, and I'll be keeping this bookmarked for future reference. It looks like my questions have been answered, and I'll be experiencing the epic content as soon as I cap on a monk.

    Thanks again,
    -PaxsMickey

  19. #19

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    Now, having capped DI, she's moved on to Magister. Her ultimate goal is to get over to Primal Avatar to add Rejuvenating Cocoon. To get there requires (if I understand the process):

    Magister: 3 levels
    Fatesinger: 4 levels
    Shadowdancer: 3 levels
    Dreadnought: 4 levels
    Shiradi: 3 levels
    You do not need to level Magister. You go straight from Draconic to Fatesinger.

    But you want those levels anyway to twist stuff in. It doesn't matter what destiny or build you use, there's no such thing as not wanting all 3 twist slots filled with something.

    Getting twists means getting ED levels. Just to get a tier1 ability into each slot means 6 fate points, which is 18 levels of destinies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    You do not need to level Magister. You go straight from Draconic to Fatesinger.

    But you want those levels anyway to twist stuff in. It doesn't matter what destiny or build you use, there's no such thing as not wanting all 3 twist slots filled with something.

    Getting twists means getting ED levels. Just to get a tier1 ability into each slot means 6 fate points, which is 18 levels of destinies.
    You're absolutely right...I could have skipped over Magister and saved myself three levels of a comparatively worthless ED.....but then Fatesinger is also a comparatively worthless ED. Shadowdancer is a comparatively useless ED and Dreadnought perhaps a slightly less comparatively useless ED. Seems to me that there should be a better way than this because- just guessing here- we're talking a couple million xp is simply wasted. Whether the waster amount is 17 levels or 14 levels, the point is that it is an excessive grind. I don't find running Rusted Blades a hundred or so times all that much fun....but it's the price you pretty much have to pay if you want to have something truly worthwhile to twist.

    My opinion only.......yours may (and I hope it does) vary.
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