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Thread: Shears of Fate

  1. #81
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    No shears = more Rusted Blades.

    That's pretty much it. We'll farm EEs on good EDs and run Rusted blades a few hours a week to make up for the lost XP.


    Shears meant people didn't need to do that.
    Until that gets nerfed again. Then we will see more threads like the death undone fiasco of 2012. How DARE they put a door in here, the NERVE!!!
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #82
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrex View Post

    Do you not think that the fact that TRing is optional is a sign that maybe, just maybe, Turbine doesn't force you to play in one single way and expect you to TR several times to gain power from Epic Destinies?

    Are you really incapable of seeing that that's not what everyone wants to do? Do you really think I'm going to TR each of my 16 toons because that's how you think I should play?
    Its not about how he thinks you should play, its about how they think you should play. The entire system design being too much grind is WAI - they either want you to TR ($$$) or pay to mitigate too much grind ($$$). The fact that the grind is being done while not in a specific destiny of the users choosing is the marketing team telling you how they want you to play - which plays right into the intention of making the grind less tolerable, which sets up the ability to sell you a more tolerable grind, for a price of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrex View Post
    You don't actually have the devs on your side here, Jasparion, you just like to think that in your effort to dictate how everyone else should enjoy the game.
    The devs dont make marketing decisions. Those are handed down from managment, and the devs implement what they want. While they dont literally decide how you play, they certainly can cause the game to be coded in such a fashion that you will be more than willing to pay to mitigate the "too much grind" or "less tolerable grind" that gets complained about heavily on these forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrex View Post
    I'm not forcing you to stop TRing or change anything about how you play, I'd expect the same courtesy from you.
    And thats the very justification that gets used to support all this. No one is forcing any of us to play a certain way. What they are giving us is less tolerable grind, and a pay option for more tolerable grind with the option to either pony up or grind it out.
    Last edited by Chai; 01-30-2013 at 02:45 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #83
    Community Member Contrex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    I actually agree. I like the idea of a Shears-like feature. I just want it to be a feature that you can get access to by playing the game and not a feature that is designed to take you money so that you can avoid playing the game.
    Sure, it should've been included from the start. However, asking for it to be free is probably hoping too much at this point.




    Chai, you have far too much confidence in Turbine's ability to form elaborate schemes. But hey, if you're right, kudos for them - when can I give them my money?
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  4. #84
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrex View Post
    Chai, you have far too much confidence in Turbine's ability to form elaborate schemes. But hey, if you're right, kudos for them - when can I give them my money?
    Soon as they pop out the version of the shear that doesnt have the godmod feature on it.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #85
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrex View Post
    Chai, you have far too much confidence in Turbine's ability to form elaborate schemes. But hey, if you're right, kudos for them - when can I give them my money?
    This isn't all that elaborate. All they have to do is look at any game from Zynga. Or a wide variety of other game companies that use microtransactions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Absolutely, started in the early 90s, and its still successful today.

    If I had not, that doesnt add to or subtract from anything that gets said. People sometimes try to put up that credability front where if the person making a specific statement has not done a specific thing or received specific education that somehow equates to lack of cred on a specific issue, but most people understand that for what it is. Logic to refute said statement is lacking, so the cred attack commences. If the logic was present to refute said statement, questioning cred would not be necessary in the first place.

    You certainly don't speak like this is true, in fact I doubt it very highly...... That being said this has nothing to do with credibilility, this has to do with understanding that because one model works for one businesses product, it won't neccesarily work for another. You constantly go on about how you've proven that Turbine doesn't need micro-transactions, how the Sub only model wasn't a failure...... And yet I've never seen any proof, what I've seen is you talking like you actually know. Yo never prove anything you offer your very biased opinion, that's all.


    You can go on finding every thread you can to soapbox your little war... All the peopel who PM were certainly correct...

    In any case this thread is about Shears, they knew how they were being used long ago, and let that continue for a VERY LONG TIME... So why remove them now? They may as well just leave them in..... It was known by X number of people, put it back in and tell everybody so just those few aren't using it.. Make it fair game... Or don't

    Another idea is too offer the shear in a fixed form, so that peopel can change destinies mid-quest without leaving. And then offer another item that allows a person to level one destiny while being in another. Although I find that kind of dista****l.

    I still think a better idea for the leveling destinies issu is too scale teh XP required per destiny. But perhaps on a reverse scale. High to low.....
    Last edited by smatt; 01-30-2013 at 07:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    If I had not, that doesnt add to or subtract from anything that gets said. People sometimes try to put up that credability front where if the person making a specific statement has not done a specific thing or received specific education that somehow equates to lack of cred on a specific issue, but most people understand that for what it is. Logic to refute said statement is lacking, so the cred attack commences. If the logic was present to refute said statement, questioning cred would not be necessary in the first place.
    True, but a cred attack doesn't nescessarily indicate logic is lacking. One could argue with infallible logic and attack your credibility at the same time.
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  8. #88
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldest View Post
    True, but a cred attack doesn't nescessarily indicate logic is lacking. One could argue with infallible logic and attack your credibility at the same time.
    Instead of attacking his credibility, why not argue persuasively against the *content* of what he is saying?

    Chai often seems very silly to me, but it's fairly obvious that he is right about Turbine taking the Zynga path to profitability.

  9. #89
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Chai often seems very silly to me, but it's fairly obvious that he is right about Turbine taking the Zynga path to profitability.
    Then we won't have to worry about DDO for much longer, will we?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Instead of attacking his credibility, why not argue persuasively against the *content* of what he is saying?

    Chai often seems very silly to me, but it's fairly obvious that he is right about Turbine taking the Zynga path to profitability.
    Because there's no point in arguing against it. Turbine is in business to make money, the sub only thing was a complete failure for them. Arguing the obvious is a waste of time. He's going to say that everything is designed so that you can buy your past it. He's going to say how horrible it all is, then he'll go into his little P2C rant and there you go. It's the same thing he's been saying in every thread for a long time. And that's OK I suppose...
    Last edited by smatt; 01-30-2013 at 10:00 PM.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Look, Turbine should take note of this. People are willing to pay money to have the power of a good destiny while getting XP in a **** one. Shears = less Rusted Blades LFM.

    To reiterate . . . this is so desired that people are WILLING TO PAY REAL MONEY FOR IT. This shines a great light on how broken the ED leveling is.

    But the other unintended benefits were clearly not working as intended. If they could find a way to get one to work without the other it would be great.

    Nobody would buy a shear that worked like it said it did in the description, there's just no demand for that feature. There is a demand for something that would let you play the game on-destiny and not have to flush XP down the toilet.
    This is EXACTLY it- i didn't use it to exploit, i used it as choice C, be neither gimp, nor giving up large chunks of XP when healing difficult raids. I'd MUCH rather you fix the way ED's are filled, but if not, then PLEASE give a way to pay for it (which sounds bad, but thats how big of a pain in the a$$ ED XP is- we are capped, please let us be powerful instead of gimp 90% of the time).

    3 solutions i've heard that are good:
    A, XP aquired goes into a pool, and you spend XP from that pool to level destinies. XP aquired DOESN'T go into your active destiny, but instead into the pool.

    B, XP aquired FIRST goes into your current destiny- if that destiny is capped, then it will instead go into the nearest destiny(s) that isn't capped. (perhaps at a % cut, so only 75% goes into another destiny)

    C, XP applies to both your destiny, AND your 'fate pool', essentially allowing you to 'level up' past 25, but it gives you fate points/level instead of epic levels. This way fate points aren't tied to destinies (the reason we must farm useless destinies) and instead are accrued with XP into a generic pool. This ALSO means that people would only need to level the destinies they want twists from, and would make everyone happy!

    All three are brilliant ideas, i think- personally i favor c, but that's just me. The moral of the story is, Turbine, let us be uber after we farmed ~7.378 million XP to CAP, AND 3 mill XP to cap a destiny we like! Also, unborking XP rewards in general (ie boosting XP for most quests in existence, and MAJOR boosts/restoration of XP to challenges) would help this as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doomteen007 View Post
    Also, unborking XP rewards in general (ie boosting XP for most quests in existence, and MAJOR boosts/restoration of XP to challenges) would help this as well.
    Ask and you shall receive. They are adding +50% xp pots to the ddostore. expect more xp nerfs to push xp pot sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mystafyi View Post
    Ask and you shall receive. They are adding +50% xp pots to the ddostore. expect more xp nerfs to push xp pot sales.
    *siiiiiigh* count on turbine to fix their errors in the LEAST player friendly way possible... -.-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    No shears = more Rusted Blades.

    That's pretty much it. We'll farm EEs on good EDs and run Rusted blades a few hours a week to make up for the lost XP.


    Shears meant people didn't need to do that.
    Precisely! It FIXED their bad destiny xp system! We PAID to avoid their bad system -.-
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    Quote Originally Posted by smatt View Post
    Don't play...... Becaue they're aren't going to EVER listen to you...
    I'm getting to that point actually.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The devs dont make marketing decisions. Those are handed down from managment, and the devs implement what they want. While they dont literally decide how you play, they certainly can cause the game to be coded in such a fashion that you will be more than willing to pay to mitigate the "too much grind" or "less tolerable grind" that gets complained about heavily on these forums.
    Or simply decide to play a game that isn't FUBAR to start? But I guess that option depends on how much one feels they are invested in this game.

    For me it's been easy enough to ignore most of these schemes. TRing seemed like a silly mechanic from the start, guild buffs always seemed a bonus so paying more for gold seal or elixirs for better one's just a waste, raid bypasses worthless as I rarely do more than 1 raid in three days, much less want to do the same raid again.

    But the lack of grind for that first ED as well as to reach level 25 hasn't burnt me out on playing those characters and the regressive ED leveling system is making me question whether the game is worth playing still. While my aversion to being that "sucker born every day" makes paying extra for a working version of a product repugnant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smatt View Post
    Because there's no point in arguing against it. Turbine is in business to make money, the sub only thing was a complete failure for them. Arguing the obvious is a waste of time. He's going to say that everything is designed so that you can buy your past it. He's going to say how horrible it all is, then he'll go into his little P2C rant and there you go. It's the same thing he's been saying in every thread for a long time. And that's OK I suppose...
    Actually, everything being designed so you can buy your way past it isn't so bad. It's everything being designed in a way that causes everybody to want to buy their way past it is where things get distasteful for some of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smatt View Post
    the sub only thing was a complete failure for them.
    really? you are conviently ignoring the fact that the atari lawsuit stopped ALL content for over a year. This was a major factor with the loss of their subscription player base. Free-2-play and the release of backed up content was only possible with the upcoming settlement of the lawsuit.

    without the lawsuit, ddo could very well have grown and prospered under a subscription based model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mystafyi View Post
    really? you are conviently ignoring the fact that the atari lawsuit stopped ALL content for over a year. This was a major factor with the loss of their subscription player base. Free-2-play and the release of backed up content was only possible with the upcoming settlement of the lawsuit.

    without the lawsuit, ddo could very well have grown and prospered under a subscription based model.
    The sub model was not a complete failure, but I've been here since late 2006, and I can say that DDO never seemed to be doing too great. It was great fun for me, but it was a very, very small persistent world, compared to others.

    It was a very niche game. Even before the lawsuit the game's development was slowing down considerably. And it's different gameplay and lack of endgame were a large part of the fact that it had very limited appeal. Things that other MMOs were considered staples, such as crafting and raiding and constant gearchecks were very different here. Which is what hooked me, because I disliked Everquest and others, since I preferred FPS and disliked clicking cooldowns and grinding for gear and being required to be in guilds and basically committing hours to a video game. DDO did a good job of selling the illusion of active combat. But it wasn't what many people wanted from MMOs who came from Everquest and such.

    One of DDO's major problems, which all games had in one way or another, was only having a very limited trial basis. I tried the 10 day trial and liked it, but for most people that didn't give enough time to get into it. F2P allowed many more players to try out and get hooked.

    Sub models, for most games, are failures at one point or another. That's why so many games went f2p and why most new games start out f2p.

    Even without the lawsuit, DDO was far behind the curve, with very limited content compared to other fantasy MMOs.

    It's anyone guess how well they may have continued as they were, but I tend to doubt they would have prospered. I think they would have limped along.

    That's my opinion from having seen DDO evolve through the years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Why would you switch your destinies mid quest except to be able to run in one and then switch to collect XP in the other?

    I have to think that was the intended purpose. I can't conceive of any other possible use for them.

    Do you have anything from an official source to point at that indicates there was any use other than switch for xp intended?
    Yah, the description actually said ONLY the switch part, not the "and stay in old Destiny" part... common sense would say the latter shoulda stayed, but the text never said it. They should come back with the switch to level in a new ED and stay in/use _a_ previous ED.

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