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  1. #1
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Default Should loot be harder to obtain?

    In the last year, the grind for obtaining loot has been reduced considerably. Many interesting items are now unbound, which means they are easily obtained from the auction house. The droprates also seem rather high. While on the one hand it is convenient that gear is easily acquirable, on the other hand I find it quite disturbing. Easily acquirable gear vastly reduces the value of the endgame content. You'll be finished with gearing up your character within weeks.... which leaves you with almost nothing interesting to do once you are capped. I find it really boring that loot is so easy to get. It completely removes the satisfaction of obtaining that one good item that you always wanted. Is this really the right direction for a healthy endgame?

  2. #2
    Community Member ThreeEyedBob's Avatar
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    I think its a move in the right direction. The fact is that the best loot is -rarely- available on auction (EE items) and are usualy hoarded as trade items for big stuff. The auction has a plat cap of 2 million for an item and some of the EE items are valued higher than that.

    By making the items BtcoE they revitalize the game economy.

    The only problem as far as I can see now is how to move the old epic items over to the new system while not screwing over people with large amounts of scrolls/shards/seals. I would reccommend a barter npc for astral shards/plats/items/epictokens/whatever.
    Member and owner of "The Mad Midgets" of Khyber.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Sure, it's good for the economy, but should economy be the only reason to play endgame?

    I don't have problems with gear being unbound btw, however, combined with high droprates it has become trivial to gear up a character.

  4. #4
    Community Member Jingwei's Avatar
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    Part of it is that people coming in with the expansion pack need access to gear that they can get quickly that is 'good enough'. Otherwise the difference between the new people and the veterans will be too wide.

    Compare before the expansion:
    +6 stat items were a sample of 'good enough' gear, and +7 and +2 exceptional items were vet gear.

    Now, it looks like +7 and +2 exceptional gear is going into the good enough category, and +8 and +3 gear is the new vet gear.

  5. #5
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    It's been mitigated somewhat by the different heroic/epic/epic hard/epic elite versions of the items... the standard versions are easy to get & pretty nice.. then the EE versions are the top-end stuff that needs the real work. Although some jaded vets may gripe that some existing gear they already have is still better, there are a lot of players not at that point yet & having some stuff thats good (if not the ultimate top end) as well as being relatively easily accessible helps to close the gap somewhat helping newer players to be competitive & effective.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  6. #6
    Community Member Blue100000005's Avatar
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    I personally think all enhancements should stop at +5 and be exceptionally difficult to find.
    "Eye of the Dragon" on Argonessen. "Quest with the best"


  7. #7
    Community Member Buggss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Sure, it's good for the economy, but should economy be the only reason to play endgame?

    I don't have problems with gear being unbound btw, however, combined with high droprates it has become trivial to gear up a character.
    Maybe but it's all about perspective. I've no idea of your play schedule but personally I work full-time and can't play enough to get the dozens or hundreds of quests and raid completions to benefit from the higher drop-rate, although I've not noticed it at all. Over the last few months of the E-star based quests I've slowly managed to complete enough Harper and purple knight quests to get the first level of favour and I don't think I've looted any named items at all, just random bits and pieces some of which were useful, the vast majority weren't. I'm nowhere near plat-capped even pooling cash from all my characters so I can't afford the prices on the AH at all.

    I suppose the point of the post is to mention the difference between players posting on the forums and the vast majority of players in the game; you may feel that the game's being changed away from what works best for you but I'd say if it's being changed it's being made more suitable for the population that don't have everything very soon after it's released.
    <------Pay no attention to the join date, played pre-launch in EU & moved to U.S. servers.

  8. #8
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    I like the BTCe stuff.

    I have a couple toons that I care about.

    A Capped fully ED'd out Cleric (well I am capping some stupid EDs still by doing EH material).

    A multi TRed Arty...a Second life Clonk...a MNK/ROG (Thief-Acrobat) mutt build and a up and coming Tukaw (or may make him a Juggernaut).

    Anyway...guess which toon sees the most action in the new content...
    Yeah, the Cleric.

    I am really happy that my Arty, Thief-Acrobat, lowbie Clonk can all benefit from my "big guy".

    Lets say I pull an EE Wall of Wood. I can probably trade that for 3 or 4 EN or EH items like the twisting shade bracers and boots.

    Lets say I pull Drow Longsword...I can probably use that to leverage a pair of Grave Wraps for my Clonk.

    Anyway, I have to say I like it a lot.

    There seems to be a shortage of capable divines willing to pug. At least it seems that way because I get treated REALLY WELL in my groups at epic level (not necessarily the same on my lowbie clonk that is level 9).

    Anyway, my "main" only needs a few items to be done. I would have no reason to run anything but a select few raids (shakes my fist at Velah and her stingyness with ESoS shards...) and quest if everything was BTC.

    By stuff being sellable or tradable...I am more willing to hop on my "built" cleric and do stuff. Otherwise, I would just focus on my alts.

    Also, it is nice leveling up into nice gear (that I have from my other guy).
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  9. #9
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    Since the easy access to good gear, i ran more quests/raids i enjoy, and not because of loot.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Is this really the right direction for a healthy endgame?
    The options for endgame are:
    Long dreadful grinding for items
    Short unsatisfying grind for items
    Recycling content via TR

    Eventually you'll get fed up with any one of these options, the long one merely drags it out a bit and recycling isn't an infinite game since eventually you'll get all the past lives you want. The only truly endless endgame would be some kind of non-recreational PvP, but that's an elephant in the room that is very, very disliked (for reasons that still escape me) and the game isn't built to support that at all anyway, the game is fully themepark quest-centric and eventually you'll get bored fighting AIs.
    The more I think about it the more I am convinced that end-game means end of game in DDO :/
    That which does not kill you gives you experience points.

    (Fighter->Fighter->Fighter->Monk->Monk->Barbarian->Paladin->Ranger)

  11. #11
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    As someone who did not get a single scale from vons 13 times in row,I say its good I got a chance to loot item I can trade for FRDS
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  12. #12
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Getting esos is not hard,it is long.
    The only gear that is hard to get is ee stuff.

  13. #13
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    The options for endgame are:
    Long dreadful grinding for items
    Short unsatisfying grind for items
    Recycling content via TR

    Eventually you'll get fed up with any one of these options, the long one merely drags it out a bit and recycling isn't an infinite game since eventually you'll get all the past lives you want.
    There is probably some middle ground between the first two options, but overall I agree with you. The grind for desert and von items was clearly way too long; on the other hand, the current grind seems to be way too short. And yea, you can TR to do the same content again, but I wouldn't really call that endgame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    The only truly endless endgame would be some kind of non-recreational PvP, but that's an elephant in the room that is very, very disliked (for reasons that still escape me) and the game isn't built to support that at all anyway, the game is fully themepark quest-centric and eventually you'll get bored fighting AIs.
    The more I think about it the more I am convinced that end-game means end of game in DDO :/
    I wouldn't mind some extra options for PvP, I guess it could be a lot of fun; probably would require heavy class balancing, which people don't like.

    Another option would probably be to make endgame raids much more difficult, so that they can't be beaten within a day after release... that would make for a somewhat more interesting endgame.

  14. #14
    Community Member fyrst.grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moltier View Post
    Since the easy access to good gear, i ran more quests/raids i enjoy, and not because of loot.
    Exactly the same for me.. The old grind was burning me out.
    I actually enjoy to get okay equipment on toons I seldom play in stead of having to focus all my attention on one character at all times.. Makes it less painfull to pug on one of the parked toons. And EE items are still only for vets anyway, so I just think the moderate players got a chance to catch up to those who can play all day. Which imo is a good thing.

    I'm one of those idiots who grinded for abashai, claw, tod and esos and various other epic items.. Still missing 1 darn shard and a ring tho. But I'm so burned out from the grinding. Some of the quests I can't even make myself do any time soon again after ransacking it so many times.

  15. #15
    Community Member fyrst.grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    The options for endgame are:
    Long dreadful grinding for items
    Short unsatisfying grind for items
    Recycling content via TR

    Eventually you'll get fed up with any one of these options, the long one merely drags it out a bit and recycling isn't an infinite game since eventually you'll get all the past lives you want. The only truly endless endgame would be some kind of non-recreational PvP, but that's an elephant in the room that is very, very disliked (for reasons that still escape me) and the game isn't built to support that at all anyway, the game is fully themepark quest-centric and eventually you'll get bored fighting AIs.
    The more I think about it the more I am convinced that end-game means end of game in DDO :/
    Not sure it's pvp as much as the griefing it comes with and being forced to pvp at endgame. I know in my case - that made me leave multiple other games. Getting killed over and over again by some high level camper when all you want to do is explore the game world, sucks!

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    In the last year, the grind for obtaining loot has been reduced considerably. Many interesting items are now unbound, which means they are easily obtained from the auction house. The droprates also seem rather high. While on the one hand it is convenient that gear is easily acquirable, on the other hand I find it quite disturbing. Easily acquirable gear vastly reduces the value of the endgame content. You'll be finished with gearing up your character within weeks.... which leaves you with almost nothing interesting to do once you are capped. I find it really boring that loot is so easy to get. It completely removes the satisfaction of obtaining that one good item that you always wanted. Is this really the right direction for a healthy endgame?
    We grind for gear, we grind for XP, we grind for destinies, we grind for TR, we grind for mats (see new augment system) we grind for citw, we grind for accomendations, we grind for favor. That's what I've done since F2P and I've been VIP that whole time.

    Here's the thing. With the new augment system I will still have to grind to get the version of the item I want and then grind to augment them. And by then something else will come out, more quests, more raids etc.

    And when there is none and I think I have what I need I will TR. Until there is something I want. I have 7 Alts that all need something, all need TR, all need grind. It's amazing with all the stuff that I can supposedly get so easy that I still need to grind so much.

  17. #17
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    To fast to get?
    Cant say thats a problem for me, quite the opposite.
    But that may be because i play 3 chars while trying to max out space on 3 Bank chars. And i am not into running grinding.
    Maybe change your playstyle?
    I play now a bit more then a year and still have not top notch gear or everything i want. It may easily take me another year or two to obtain everything i need/want.
    (which doesnt even include TR and the new gear i will want for that..)

    I see Btcoe as step in the right direction, just wish we would get a trader for scroll/seal/essence. Older gear is such a ridicules amount of grind.
    (72 runs of Partycrashers for 1 cloak seal and it didnt even drop for me, was just lucky that the player didnt need it and traded it.)
    Taenebrae, Daemonsoul, Daemoneyes and Daemonheart of Argonessen
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  18. #18
    Community Member Tolath's Avatar
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    Personally i like the fact that all can get some good items pretty easy,
    but some old epic items need an upgrade,specially Red Fens and Desert stuff.

    about Epic Elite stuff drop rates are pretty ok there,items are a litle better than normal versions that are pretty easy to get.
    really liked the way the split versions of items in different difficulty.

    About new Gianthold Epic items looks good and the fact that you can avoid the greed if you get an item on higher difficulty
    is pretty good.

    with new changes is worth running on Epic Elite for my point of view and i like that.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    I don't have problems with gear being unbound btw, however, combined with high droprates it has become trivial to gear up a character.
    Is that why I only have one pair of EE treads and not a single one of the other pieces I want?

  20. #20
    Community Member Tolath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    Is that why I only have one pair of EE treads and not a single one of the other pieces I want?
    Epic Elite items should be more rare.i think you already have a couple of epic normal/hard treads.
    personally i got 2 treads i gifted one to a friend.

    and i got all things in Epic Elite version maybe missing Shield and Mace that have no use atm.
    i think the rarest thing is Gloves i run a couple of epic elite End Road only saw it drop one pair of Gloves,
    I was the lucky one that got them.

    drops are fine as i said no too hard no too easy.

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