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  1. #21
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    VIPs have never gotten drow, Favored Souls, or Artificers for free; you have to unlock those via Favor or the DDO Store.
    They are free, you just need to earn them with favor. That was the deal way back in 2006 and it was clear in the initial VIP rules that people signed on to in 2009.

    MOTU and ED is different because there is no favor unlock to let you get it free.

  2. #22
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    MOTU is way bigger than just a quest pack with a chain of 3-4 quests. Not only is it a significant content expansion, but also an entire enhancement system expansion. Now, if they made a habit of charging VIPs for every incremental addition I would see that as a problem, but as I understand it, having paid major expansions in MMOs is hardly unprecedented. I don't disagree with charging for this, assuming it keeps incentives in place for further content development.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I really dont understand how people dont see it. It was larger and more complex than other updates it added a new area it was clearly an expansion and I am happy with what I got for my money.
    well,it maybe quite clear to u veterans,but to a new player with only one recently leveled lv20 char like me,i've got no idea about updates or expansions,when they talked about the quest names, i dont realize that this is update 6,that is update 12,whatever,i thought as VIP i can get access to all of them;then after some time,i got TPs at hand,of course i would like to use them to boost my character,a greater tome of learning seems great with the discount! i spent most of my TP on it.2 days later i hit lv20,and find that i cant claim my epic destiny,then i am told"u have to pay for that even if u are VIP!pay it with TP""what? u used ur TP for tome of learning? that sucks man,u can get epic destiny and tome of learning for free if u bought MOTU bundle!"

    as a first time player,who would have forseen this inconvieniece? now after consulting with some kind players on my server,i got my MOTU bundle and started to level my destiny,but there is an extra tome of learning sitting in my bank,which i will most unlikely to use because i dont have enough time to level 2 chars TR after TR.that would have been 1000TP i could use to buy something more useful to my character.....

    I know this world seems easy for u veterans,but everyone has his rookie times right? so be friendly to rookies and make this world more comprehensible~ dont mislead them to waste their time and money~

  4. #24
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    MOTU was larger than GH or the Vale or Shav or even the Orchard? I don't think so.
    It is.
    Underdark, Schindig, Kings Forest, Demon web. 4 adventure regions.
    Eveningstar (town/house/city)
    4 (evening star, counting cross over), 3 (king forest), 2? (underdark), 4 (shindig), 3 (demon web), 1 raid.

    None of those you listed can come close to the amount of work necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    The ED system was larger than the heroic enhancement system? I don't think so.
    Again, wrong. The HE system has a lot of resuse across the classes. the ED system has a lot less similar crossover, let alone offers several new styles of attacks and buffs. The only reuse would be +1 stat bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    The new Epic loot mechanic was more complex and expansive than guild slots, the New New slot system, or cannith crafting? I don't think so.
    This is a red harring as you can not compare definitive creation of multi leveled loot to any of theses. At closest it would be comparable to cannith trade ins or crystal cove trade ins. But in addition to this, you have to add in the non level varian drops as well. I want to say Cannith got broken up into Challenges and Quests, not one unit in total in the store. I could very well be wrong on that, however as I forget.

    The work in MOTU is comparable with the type of stuff that was "an update" or "a mod" in the past.[/QUOTE]
    If you refer to stuff as in "style" sure. It is very easy to see similarities. Amount? You are way off.

  5. #25
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    It is.
    Underdark, Schindig, Kings Forest, Demon web. 4 adventure regions.
    Eveningstar (town/house/city)
    4 (evening star, counting cross over), 3 (king forest), 2? (underdark), 4 (shindig), 3 (demon web), 1 raid.
    Maybe I missed it... but that wasn't all in the MOTU release. I believe you are describing MULTIPLE updates (that came free for VIP after). That would put it on par with all of Necro 1-4, which was free.

    None of those you listed can come close to the amount of work necessary.


    Again, wrong. The HE system has a lot of resuse across the classes. the ED system has a lot less similar crossover, let alone offers several new styles of attacks and buffs. The only reuse would be +1 stat bonus.
    You miss the point. Are we going to be charged for the entire reconstruction of the enhancement system? Nope, at least it doesn't look like it. Also the enhancement system we had, which was at one point created from scratch, was delivered free.

    The work in MOTU is comparable with the type of stuff that was "an update" or "a mod" in the past.
    If you refer to stuff as in "style" sure. It is very easy to see similarities. Amount? You are way off.
    I don't think so. And even if that were true, they could put out half as many "updates" in the future and call them all "expansions" using your logic.

  6. #26
    Community Member Limey's Avatar
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    They need the extra money to keep the game bug and lag free.

  7. #27
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Maybe I missed it... but that wasn't all in the MOTU release. I believe you are describing MULTIPLE updates (that came free for VIP after). That would put it on par with all of Necro 1-4, which was free.
    It was all in the MOTU release.

    The combined Necro 1-4 is the closest, but add back in all the adventure regions and it still lags begin. Also you previously only stated orchard, that is Necro 4 only. But as Necro 1-4 was NOT released as a singular update, you can not claim it is the same either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    You miss the point. Are we going to be charged for the entire reconstruction of the enhancement system? Nope, at least it doesn't look like it. Also the enhancement system we had, which was at one point created from scratch, was delivered free.
    So you are wanting more of something for nothing that at start (level 1) we do not have access to? No, it is additional and not required, nor is it part of any core book. changes were made to fit the video game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    I don't think so. And even if that were true, they could put out half as many "updates" in the future and call them all "expansions" using your logic.
    *shrugs* That is exactly correct. They could, and they could charge us for it. How do you think they operate over in Lotro? They open up another "country" (I don't know the terms there.) and if there it is something major they call it an Expansion and charge you.
    MOTU was something major. A whole new world that wasn't EB, with lots of regions, not just one house.

    As I stated, you can find a lot of similarities with updates, but the amount is not the same.
    Last edited by Missing_Minds; 01-30-2013 at 12:02 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limey View Post
    They need the extra money to keep the game bug and lag free.
    Apparently, they need even more extra money than they are currently getting.

  9. #29
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    I agree it was certainly larger than any other update since F2P by an order of magnitude. There's about a year's worth of updates in that expansion. And I paid for it, and I enjoyed it.

    But I still think it was cheeky to charge VIPs for it, because when they went F2P (and even right back at game launch) they specifically advertised that VIPs would never pay more than their sub for all game content. They also said in their EULA and T&Cs that they can change whatever they want whenever they want so letter of the 'law' such as it is - they are covered.

    It doesn't make it 'right' to go back on a promise, hence my view that it's cheeky. But like I said - I'm VIP, I paid for it, I am enjoying it, and I don't regret the purchase. Plus if I cancel my VIP sub I'll still have it. And we ARE always saying we want the opportunity to buy packs while paying a sub so... y'know, whatever.

    Worth noting that since it happened after WB though, I smell the "replacement" marketing department at work here. Don't be *too* ****ed at Turbine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  10. #30
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    *shrugs* That is exactly correct. They could, and they could charge us for it. How do you think they operate over in Lotro? They open up another "country" (I don't know the terms there.) and if there it is something major they call it an Expansion and charge you.
    Well, I guess what it comes down to is we both agree its largely arbitrary, and you are ok with that and I think its scummy. It's a matter of opinion that we won't settle so its probably pointless to circle.

  11. #31
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Well, I guess what it comes down to is we both agree its largely arbitrary, and you are ok with that and I think its scummy. It's a matter of opinion that we won't settle so its probably pointless to circle.
    It is business. I don't like to pay $0.45-$0.95 for a slice of cheep yuck cheese on my burger so I do not pay for it. If it were a decent quality cheddar? Chances are I would get that.

  12. #32
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limey View Post
    They need the extra money to keep the game bug and lag free.
    Sarcasm?
    How to revamp past life reward system <--- working again
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We absolutely planned for Fighter to still have Haste Boost. It's absolutely a bug. Any similar issues that look "wrong" to any player should be bugged.
    Developers should fix this

  13. #33
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    well,a kind Account Management Agent have replied my ticket and refunded the Turbine Points for the first Tome of Learning to my account balance. they really worked with efficiency,and THANK YOU,Toffre!

    So I have nothing to complain now, and will enjoy my game now~ hope that DDO will keep up and go better,always willing to pay if the expansion worthed it~

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