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  1. #1
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Default Ckeric Ftr Splash?

    Hey there

    Just TR'd my cleric and he's on his second life. I am considering splashing in 2 levels of fighter for shield feats.

    He's human and pretty much healing specced so far. Level 7 but will probably hit 8 by the end of the weekend.

    Am I making a big mistake?

    My idea is that on Raids and the like he can heal while shield blocking to keep his damage down. plus the shield feats should help out a lot while soloing and a little extra PRR never hurt either.


  2. #2
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Is 1 level of fighter "good enough" to get there I wonder. Being healing CC focused (but with a Cleric PL) I should be OK if just drop 1 level for the CC side of things.

    Anyone have any advice on a build like this?


  3. #3
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Absolutely splash on a Cleric.

    What do you really gain by going pure?

    Some like the Clonk with 2 levels of monk so you can stunning fist and put in Toughness with your 2 MNK feats...also of course Evasion.

    Some like the 2 Fighter for 2 feats and Tower Shield Prof.

    Can use those 2 feats for Shield Mastery. Plus you can use real weapons also. Like a Carnifex at low levels and a Loot-Gen XXXXX for anything after that.
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  4. #4
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Is the 2 ftr levels too deep though? Is it worth if for basically 2 extra HP and a shield feat?

    I don't want a Clonk .. they so been there done that. Not sure why but I don't really like monks, even though I have a really good one, button mashing just isn't my style.


  5. #5
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    What do you really gain by going pure?
    2-3 spell pen and 2-3 caster levels depending on splash, 150-250 ish sp, implosion, mass heal, energy drain, true res at once ( seriously, having only 2 lvl 9 spell slots on 17 caster splash is a shame ), DM4 if you have charisma for it, situationally useful capstone.
    Splashing has both advantages and disadvantages, it's not for every cleric build.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  6. #6
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    2-3 spell pen and 2-3 caster levels depending on splash, 150-250 ish sp, implosion, mass heal, energy drain, true res at once ( seriously, having only 2 lvl 9 spell slots on 17 caster splash is a shame ), DM4 if you have charisma for it, situationally useful capstone.
    Splashing has both advantages and disadvantages, it's not for every cleric build.
    Let me counter your points...

    1. Spell Pen...
    A. Does he have a ton of WIZ and FVS lives to back it up? He did not mention them.
    B. Will he hang out in a Destiny that Helps with Spell Pen?

    2. 150-250 SP
    A. Fair enough argument...I personally use my Healing Burst and Aura's to keep people alive.
    B. I also use Scrolls...but yeah more SP is always great

    3. The only 2 Level 9 Spells
    A. Really the only drawback is this (spell slots)
    B. I am more troubled by my lack of level 6 Spells TBH

    4. Divine Might 4
    A. Please...no one should ever ever ever take this unless they are Paladin.
    B. What exactly does DM provide a Cleric? +8 DMG with your Morning Star?
    C. If you built your toon to have a 20 CHR...and did not splash (since you have to be pure)...you gimped yourself somewhere else.
    D. Soooo DM4...its a trap!

    So I think point 1 is blah...point 4 is really bad...

    But points 2 and 3...great points.

    It comes back to, what do you want to get...and what are you willing to give up.

    One of my Favorite toons was a 18CLR/2FTR Dwarf that used a Dwarven Axe...he was hard to kill and fun to play.

    I have also leveled pure caster Clerics...and they rock...

    That Battle Cleric I listed...is in his second life as a Clonk (its fun!)

    My "main" is a 17CLR/2MNK/1FTR that crits for 1500ish...but he has lotta stuff/gear...

    ANyway...it is a your mileage may vary type situation.
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  7. #7
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Just for clarification.

    I am currently on my second life on this toon. His first life was a pure cleric.

    I got pretty bored with the whole healbot thing really quick, seriously people treated me like a slightly more intelligent hireling and considering I solo Healed Hard shrouds at level on a 28 pt build, well the attitude ****ed me off frankly. So I would start tossing around implosions and destructions around trying to mix it up and break out of that mould but it sometimes cost me SP that I really wished I had saved for healing later on.

    What I would like to do on this life it toss less of them and help out DPS wise with some simple melee sword n board style.

    I am NOT considering a 3 level splash at all, and I mean than .. never.

    I AM considering a 2 level fighter splash to gain in essence 3 feats and 1 convenience. It opens up my weapon selection (good). And I get Tower Shields, and 2 of the shield feats free.

    I AM also considering if 2 levels is too deep and as such am considering a single level of fighter. I lose a shield feat but I gain SP, Spell slots, 1 DC and 1 Spell Pen.

    I am not overly worried about my spell pen. I didn't have significant issues with it last life at all and plan to do less casting that really matters on it.

    I am 7th level and just about ready to ding and figure if I am going to splash now is the time to do it otherwise I won't bother (in reality I should have done it last level but I was still dithering) LOL.

    he's a Human to in case that matters for ya and he's very likely to roll over again into a 3rd life after hanging out at 20 long enough to replenish his stock of Shroud stuff.

    So what do you guys think is 1 "good enough" is 2 perfect or too deep. Given he's my only Divine (I tend to play arcanes and Ftr's) it's a little outside my area of expertise.


  8. #8
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Is he WIS based or STR based?

    If you dumped STR (like an 8 or 10 in STR); it may not be worth that level of Fighter (or 2).

    19/1
    18/2
    20

    Those all work...just in your original post, you got tired of being a heal bot.

    I have had fun with all types of Clerics...except heal bots.

    Battle Clerics, Clonks, Casters CLerics....all fun and very strong.

    You can even be a WIS based toon and swing a paralyzers, or cursespewer and help everyone.
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  9. #9
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    He IS wis based and I started with a 10 STR but he had a +2 tome so it's a 12. Right now sitting on a 20 at level 7 and I CAN boost that a little if needs be.

    Given he was a 1 hander I didn't think that it's too big a deal if his str is a little lower. he's not meant to BE DPS just help with it.

    His soundburst has managed to keep up thus far for some decent CC and I planned to make a crippling of tendon slice weapon as well to help with some CC.

    Another option is to make puncturing of wounding as well. Droping FORT saves and HP is always good LOL.

    I can easily enough get my hands on a paralyser as well.

    I am not expecting him to wade into combat and lay his foes out (I have other toons who are VERY good at that!) but I do want him to be able to say get into a Shroud and heal from the scrum within.

    Thus the shield feats are important for damage mitigation and a little extra PRR never hurts either! LOL.


  10. #10
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    He IS wis based and I started with a 10 STR but he had a +2 tome so it's a 12. Right now sitting on a 20 at level 7 and I CAN boost that a little if needs be.

    Given he was a 1 hander I didn't think that it's too big a deal if his str is a little lower. he's not meant to BE DPS just help with it.

    His soundburst has managed to keep up thus far for some decent CC and I planned to make a crippling of tendon slice weapon as well to help with some CC.

    Another option is to make puncturing of wounding as well. Droping FORT saves and HP is always good LOL.

    I can easily enough get my hands on a paralyser as well.

    I am not expecting him to wade into combat and lay his foes out (I have other toons who are VERY good at that!) but I do want him to be able to say get into a Shroud and heal from the scrum within.

    Thus the shield feats are important for damage mitigation and a little extra PRR never hurts either! LOL.
    Yeah that's how I played Hjealer his first life.
    The extra Fighter Feats (heck take Fighter at next level up...then again at 19 or 20...if you want that second Fighter Level)

    By having a nice CC weapon, you can add modest DPS, but you also keep your Aura and Burst on the melees.

    Don't forget the Fighter's Toughness enhancement too and that Haste boost is nice.
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  11. #11
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Well took just the 1 level so far and survive ability took a big jump up.

    Ran a Tempust spine Elite (yeah I am under level for sure) that was a complete clusterfark. 57 deaths but I only had 2 and both were destruction insta-kills on me.

    We completed but it was rough and I was the only toon under 11 in the run. All in all that 1 level of fighter isn't hurting me.

    The run WAS expensive though. Cost me 20 Raise Dead scrolls and 3 CSW wands! LOL.

    Amazing how many TR toons didn't have something as simple as Neut Poison and Remove Blindness pots though.


  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    A little late, but: I posted a S&B cleric 18 / ftr 2 build here for someone else. The goal of going S&B was extra survivability from PRR (15 w/ISM+tower shield, +15 from Legendary Shield Mastery) and extra DPS (8% doublestrike); Power Atk helps even more w/melee. Gives up on Spell Pen, though.

  13. #13
    Community Member Yehediah's Avatar
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    Default Sad Cleric

    It saddens me that clerics don't have their own destiny - but rather have to pick a paladin or favored soul destiny. Nor do they have a great capstone (and it keeps getting gimped in usefulness). It's about the only one of my characters that I want to multi-class (with the exception of rogues) simply because the class is lacking because of DDO's neglect.

    It makes a grown dwarf want to cry.

    But, alas, on topic - I'm also considering TRing with 1-2 fighter levels - only because of the above...
    Yehediah (Dwarf Cleric), Zeddek (Human Favored Soul)
    Mezros (Drow Bard), Fieris (Drow Wizard)
    Freibo (Halfling Rogue)

  14. #14
    The Hatchery Habreno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    Let me counter your points...

    1. Spell Pen...
    A. Does he have a ton of WIZ and FVS lives to back it up? He did not mention them.
    B. Will he hang out in a Destiny that Helps with Spell Pen?

    This is true, however, only entirely a problem in EE, in which one will likely want to be healing at first. Once one has experience doing EE, they will then want to branch out as needed- this is when a second TR and some other PL's should be considered. Overall, Spell Pen is only an end-game issue and as long as the player is moderately geared will not be much of an issue in EH or less.

    2. 150-250 SP
    A. Fair enough argument...I personally use my Healing Burst and Aura's to keep people alive.
    B. I also use Scrolls...but yeah more SP is always great

    QFT.

    3. The only 2 Level 9 Spells
    A. Really the only drawback is this (spell slots)
    B. I am more troubled by my lack of level 6 Spells TBH

    Once again, QFT.

    4. Divine Might 4
    A. Please...no one should ever ever ever take this unless they are Paladin.
    B. What exactly does DM provide a Cleric? +8 DMG with your Morning Star?
    C. If you built your toon to have a 20 CHR...and did not splash (since you have to be pure)...you gimped yourself somewhere else.
    D. Soooo DM4...its a trap!

    OMG. ***. People take that line on a Cleric???

    So I think point 1 is blah...point 4 is really bad...

    But points 2 and 3...great points.

    It comes back to, what do you want to get...and what are you willing to give up.

    One of my Favorite toons was a 18CLR/2FTR Dwarf that used a Dwarven Axe...he was hard to kill and fun to play.

    I have also leveled pure caster Clerics...and they rock...

    That Battle Cleric I listed...is in his second life as a Clonk (its fun!)

    My "main" is a 17CLR/2MNK/1FTR that crits for 1500ish...but he has lotta stuff/gear...

    ANyway...it is a your mileage may vary type situation.
    Comments in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    Just for clarification.

    I am currently on my second life on this toon. His first life was a pure cleric.

    I got pretty bored with the whole healbot thing really quick, seriously people treated me like a slightly more intelligent hireling and considering I solo Healed Hard shrouds at level on a 28 pt build, well the attitude ****ed me off frankly. So I would start tossing around implosions and destructions around trying to mix it up and break out of that mould but it sometimes cost me SP that I really wished I had saved for healing later on.

    What I would like to do on this life it toss less of them and help out DPS wise with some simple melee sword n board style.

    I am NOT considering a 3 level splash at all, and I mean than .. never.

    I AM considering a 2 level fighter splash to gain in essence 3 feats and 1 convenience. It opens up my weapon selection (good). And I get Tower Shields, and 2 of the shield feats free.

    I AM also considering if 2 levels is too deep and as such am considering a single level of fighter. I lose a shield feat but I gain SP, Spell slots, 1 DC and 1 Spell Pen.

    I am not overly worried about my spell pen. I didn't have significant issues with it last life at all and plan to do less casting that really matters on it.

    I am 7th level and just about ready to ding and figure if I am going to splash now is the time to do it otherwise I won't bother (in reality I should have done it last level but I was still dithering) LOL.

    he's a Human to in case that matters for ya and he's very likely to roll over again into a 3rd life after hanging out at 20 long enough to replenish his stock of Shroud stuff.

    So what do you guys think is 1 "good enough" is 2 perfect or too deep. Given he's my only Divine (I tend to play arcanes and Ftr's) it's a little outside my area of expertise.
    What I did my second life, when I was at cap (but leveled with the intent of playing this style at cap) was actually to pretty much do all three- melee, heal, and offensive cast. It's not for everyone, but you seem to be one of those that may handle it.

    I was a HElf Fighter Dilletante, so as to stay pure. I started with a 15 STR, 18 WIS, with levelups in WIS. Rest of the points (2nd life, so 34 total) I believe went to CON. This tri-focus seems ineffective, but, in all reality, Cleric is the best of the Divine classes to do it with (Souls are too specialized for such a build. Paladins don't get good party healing, as with any other true Divine) and can handle it well. You may say "whats the point" when I say "I'll instakill that caster over there, beat this melee I just commanded right here with you, while healing you of the damage you took from that caster that just got instakilled."

    One must realize, though, is that your DPS will not be as good as a first-rank melee's. Some people hate you for it. Your DC's can be strong, still, because of your focus in WIS. And ultimately, you're a Cleric. Healing won't be an issue. You won't have that 3500 SP pool that other Cleric may. But you're doing much more than he is besides healing. It's a tough call. How much specialization to trade for versatility? You have to play to find out, and be prepared to tweak and retweak your build to fit. Once you have it, though... you can be a beast.
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  15. #15
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    My cleric is currently on his fourth cleric life and I haven't splashed on any.

    If your goal is to turtle up behind a shield and heal during raids, you don't need a splash. Get the best tower shield you can and get behind it. The hit to proficiency won't matter if you're not swinging a weapon.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

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  16. #16
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    4. Divine Might 4
    A. Please...no one should ever ever ever take this unless they are Paladin.
    Uh why?

    B. What exactly does DM provide a Cleric? +8 DMG with your Morning Star?
    +8 DMG to my GTWF Dual Rapier Cleric with Improved Crit? Yes please!
    Or
    +8 DMG to my GTWF Hand Wraps Cleric when in GMoF destiny? Yes please!


    C. If you built your toon to have a 20 CHR...and did not splash (since you have to be pure)...you gimped yourself somewhere else.
    Not sure if you're implying that having more than 20CHR is gimp or less here. My (pure) cleric has 32CHR.. and has 50WIS..

    D. Soooo DM4...its a trap!
    Only if you're running around with Morning Stars
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  17. #17
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    Comments in yellow
    I am unsure how you fit in Greater Two Weapon Fighting on a pure cleric while having the proper metamagics...

    Assuming Drow Because you mentioned Rapier

    1 Empower Heal
    3 Empower
    6 Maximize
    9 Toughness
    12 Quicken
    15 Power Attack
    18 Improved Crit

    Have not even touched the two weapon fighting feats...

    So you dropped Heighten.

    What other 3 things you drop for those feats?

    I can somewhat agree that +4 Tomes are way easier to come by now. So I guess you could start with a 16 CHR and have a +4 TOME.

    That being said, I still think paying 2 for 1 for CHR is a bad use of build points.

    I also do not like drow for Clerics. I know it can work. I just think its sub-optimal.

    If you splash 2 levels of monk or fighter (to squeeze 2 more feats) you no longer qualify for DM4.

    I supposes you could use your 2 Epic Feats on Two Weapon Fighting. But I just do not see that as a good use for an Epic Cleric.

    Personally, I just see very little reason to stay pure on a Cleric.
    Last edited by Bacab; 03-01-2013 at 03:43 PM.
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
    Atropine Human 11 WIZ/1ROG (Active)
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  18. #18
    The Hatchery Habreno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    Comments in yellow
    It's not that it's bad (see Paladins).

    Its that Clerics have *MUCH* better options.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Welcome to Argo, where our end game players are constantly striving for new and exciting ways to make themselves more gimp, and continually working towards progressively more pointless goals.
    BYOH. Know it, abide by it, or don't mess with those who do.

  19. #19
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    You are way off the mark...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    I am unsure how you fit in Greater Two Weapon Fighting on a pure cleric while having the proper metamagics...

    Assuming Drow Because you mentioned Rapier
    Human

    1 Empower Heal
    3 Empower
    6 Maximize
    9 Toughness
    12 Quicken
    15 Power Attack
    18 Improved Crit

    (Human Bonus) Toughness
    1 Empower Heal
    3 Maximize
    6 Quicken
    9 Improved Crit
    12 Two Handed Fighting
    15 Imp. Two Handed Fighting
    18 Heighten
    21 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    24 Spell Focus: Evo

    As for Rapier proficiency: Master's Touch Scrolls


    I can somewhat agree that +4 Tomes are way easier to come by now. So I guess you could start with a 16 CHR and have a +4 TOME.

    Strength 10
    Dexterity 14
    Constitution 13
    Intelligence 8
    Wisdom 17
    Charisma 16

    Reason for the Odd stat allocations is taking Human Stat Enhancements will even them out, allowing to spend points elsewhere.




    That being said, I still think paying 2 for 1 for CHR is a bad use of build points.
    Only if those two points give you something more worthwhile.

    The CHR grants:
    +1 turns
    +1 UMD skills
    access to Divine Might IV.


    I also do not like drow for Clerics. I know it can work. I just think its sub-optimal.
    Humans (and probably Half-Elf) are the most optimal race for clerics.

    I supposes you could use your 2 Epic Feats on Two Weapon Fighting. But I just do not see that as a good use for an Epic Cleric.
    Is being able to melee down an EE mob on the strength of your aura and buffs alone a good use of Epic Cleric? How about being able to solo EE content?

    Personally, I just see very little reason to stay pure on a Cleric.
    You are entitled to your opinion. But I recommend you keep an open mind.

  20. #20
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habreno View Post
    It's not that it's bad (see Paladins).

    Its that Clerics have *MUCH* better options.
    Care to elaborate?

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