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  1. #21
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SofiaNRage View Post
    I'm glad you have the time to farm some EE loot, so to made to feel gimp because i don't have the same time or guildies willing to farm something, makes me less willing to play the game or even spend any more money for future updates, and it doesn't make me less of a player. I should be able to get the same level of gear even if its over a longer span of time, not to feel sub par because I can only get in a pug group that can do en or eh, I'm willing to farm commendations to spend for the upgrade, but I should be penalized because I don't have guild/friend depth to help me get EE loot.
    Even the elite farming players are only willing to hard farm if they can't get their friends to come. This muloi tiered loot table will chase away the more casual player, because they feel gimpy when they receive subpar version of an EE item. If there's no way to get the same quality of item, then theres less reason to get the item or invest time in the game
    I've never seen a EE item in the ah or offered for trade, and the en/eh versions are not worth the plat being asked for such a sub par item when a better version of the item exists
    Believe it or not pretty much all quests that drop these tiered items can be solo'd, so go solo farm them.

    If you want EE loot, then clearly you have the mindset of a powergamer, yet you are complaining that you are unwilling to put forth the effort to achieve these items. I'd say you just need to suck it up and try harder. Casual players SHOULD feel gimpier than elite players because they ARE, in fact, gimpier, and hard-to-get gear only plays a small part in this.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    well...

    People made specific suggestions and supporting reasons for the blue armor. Lo and behold, feather listened and upgraded!

    I can imagine it's hard for him to listen to the forums when all he gets is "hey, your work sucks, get a clue dude." especially after he's probably worked his tail off on this for a while now.

    so, rather than have topics that generically deride and belittle, a more specific write up like what was done in other threads might garner a better response.
    truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  3. #23
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Let's NEVER go back to the debacle of having the same loot on EN as EE.

    That basically removes EE from the game as people capable of running it are too often too minmax-focused to run it when you can just run four EH runs in the same time one EE run takes.


    As for the loot - the weapons and the Halcyon Boots are rubbish. Pretty much everything else has a niche. If the accessories got made universally better, they'd obsolete more and more old items, effectively removing more and more old content from endgame. Our endgame isn't large or varied enough to contemplate this.
    This to the bitter end. I think the idea of having specific gear drop on specific difficulties is a good thing. Drives upward progress in gameplay. Gives you motivation to run ee. And given the challenge of ee, it makes sense.

    It would be nice if a couple of things dropped in ee; loot or something to help upgrade the older loot to the higher end. This way it is incremental gains if not full gains, rather than all or nothing.

  4. #24
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    I have to agree that I really like what they've done with the EN/EH/EE loot and the Raid loot as far as EN v EE.

    Normal quests with BtCoE gear, EE being a small-medium upgrade from EN is absolutely the way to go. Want the best? Run EE. Don't want to run this quest on EE? Run something else so that you have something of value to trade for the EE item you want. You can still have your EE item!

    Raids - the gear is BtC so the above philosophy doesn't work. So instead you have upgradable gear - and EH and EE give you upgraded versions. Want the best return for # of times running the raid? (important with the raid timer) - run EE. Don't want to run EE? The top level loot is still available, just run EN or EH and upgrade. And the drop rates for the upgrade materials is FAR, FAR better than the drop rate for things like seal/shard/scrolls ever were. Each time you run the raid you should have a fair chance of moving forward on your item. The biggest stumble is just getting the item in the first place. Everyone has access, but the "easier" road takes longer (or more raid bypass timers, which Turbine loves to sell you.)

    These are moves in the right direction IMHO.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SofiaNRage View Post
    I'm glad you have the time to farm some EE loot, so to made to feel gimp because i don't have the same time or guildies willing to farm something, makes me less willing to play the game or even spend any more money for future updates, and it doesn't make me less of a player. I should be able to get the same level of gear even if its over a longer span of time, not to feel sub par because I can only get in a pug group that can do en or eh, I'm willing to farm commendations to spend for the upgrade, but I should be penalized because I don't have guild/friend depth to help me get EE loot.
    Even the elite farming players are only willing to hard farm if they can't get their friends to come. This muloi tiered loot table will chase away the more casual player, because they feel gimpy when they receive subpar version of an EE item. If there's no way to get the same quality of item, then theres less reason to get the item or invest time in the game
    I've never seen a EE item in the ah or offered for trade, and the en/eh versions are not worth the plat being asked for such a sub par item when a better version of the item exists
    You can, in fact, get the same level of gear as everyone else. You just have to put in the same time and effort as everyone else to get it. Do you think all those "uber-elite" players that can short-man or solo EE content were able to do that the first day they played DDO? Put in the time and effort to improve your skills as a player, and you gear on your character, and then you will be able to run content on EE and get the best loot in the game. Part of that process might be running that content on EH to get the EH version, then when your character's power is built up, you move up to EE and run that and get the better version. Your opinion seems to be "if I can't have the absolute best of best, then it isn't worth getting anything at all", which I have to say is a pretty narrow view of the game. The tiered loot system was put in place specifically so that the elite players can run elite and get a commensurate reward for their time and effort, while the more casual/less hardcore players can run normal or hard, and still get a good, quality item as a reward for their time and effort. Running normal 15 times, or even 15,000 times, is no where near as difficult as running elite once, so why should you be able to get the same rewards?

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    As for the loot - the weapons and the Halcyon Boots are rubbish. Pretty much everything else has a niche. If the accessories got made universally better, they'd obsolete more and more old items, effectively removing more and more old content from endgame. Our endgame isn't large or varied enough to contemplate this.
    I'd have to disagree here. The last raid was all weapons now having some accessories but they are even subpar and calling them niche is pretty generous. The necklace is good but not a unanimous best in slot. The gloves could be good but way too much competition in that slot same with the trinket. The cloak some like but I find it extremely lacking. The boots and bracers are trash.

    The nonraid loot is far and away better than the raid loot here and thats a big issue for me and I think most others. There is nothing in the raid that makes me say I really want that item and that's where the big issue comes as people will shy away from it pretty quickly after the newness wears off.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    I'd have to disagree here. The last raid was all weapons now having some accessories but they are even subpar and calling them niche is pretty generous. The necklace is good but not a unanimous best in slot. The gloves could be good but way too much competition in that slot same with the trinket. The cloak some like but I find it extremely lacking. The boots and bracers are trash.

    The nonraid loot is far and away better than the raid loot here and thats a big issue for me and I think most others. There is nothing in the raid that makes me say I really want that item and that's where the big issue comes as people will shy away from it pretty quickly after the newness wears off.
    I think part of the problem is that FoS is trying to create items that are "good" without being "great", so that nothing will become best in slot. The issue with that approach is that most of us actually want raid loot quality items to be either best in slot, or really close to it. Otherwise, there isn't any point in trying to get them, as we can get other items that are just as good much easier from regular quests.

  8. #28

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    The loot the same as always, some slight upgrades on some builds. That what they do must of the time make you grind for ok loot upgrades. That at least the experience since the shroud, which every one calls OP. Yean it is when no other loot meets the same model. Though to me I would prefer the OP loot compared the boring keep all old content viable loot. Og really do really need to think old raids are needed for veteran toons. The reality for me is there no other game that fits my need for toon custmaztion and that only reason this game is still alive for me. Because there end game is horrible, not bad not needing more just plain horrible. Really EE Citw is the big thing woot.

    I always so much potential in this game flush down the toilet. That always been so frustrating to watch. This game to me could be so much more, better Custmor service, better Gear upgrades, More Epic dragons and gaints. Fight elder dragons, titans, or gods. Hmm why the hell are we playing a fantasy game for then? I do not know one person that can do anything that a toon in game does. Reality and game are two different worlds should not have nothing to do with this game. The only chooses that should be made about the game is what makes it better.

    I switch to MMO because the abitly to play with other people while the world change and developed. Not to go back and play the shroud again because some new players have not experience it. Is there not better tech out there for new raids and new adventures? Do we have to keep gear moving at snails pace to keep alive the old raid for years and years so dont get a bunch of new ones? That is what I pay for "CONTENT". Not grinding bypasses. I will more then happy to pay more for good content. I will not pay for stupid artifcal grind bypasses. When you create the grind in the frist place. I want fun end game content and toon custmaztion.

    Anyone tells me that business can not make good money doing this is a pawn. Sorry that put out way more content for $50 games all the time. Although I would be happy to pay for good raid content, and good end game content. That my thoughts and feelings of t he direction of the raid loot and game.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    So you haven't the time, you haven't actually run them on elite and you still want Elite loot?

    The elite players will do them in a pug if they are really elite. They are not that hard even in a complete pug. I was running EE quests before I joined a channel. They were done completely in pugs and we still got them down. The quests last ~20 mins in a good group, 45 max if party is really bad. Not that long imho.

    The casual players SHOULDN'T FEEL the need to have Elite loot. Why you need the best of the best loot when you run a sub-par difficulty?

    Check the forum trade of your server. You will see many, many threads about people selling EE version of U15-U16 chains and they only cost max 6 FGDS/FRDS in most cases (except for something like Ivy Wraps, going for 15+ FRDS/FGDS). Are you going to say you haven't 6 FRDS/FGDS? They come from an easy raid/quest that can be done by anyone in a pug.

    If you want something, you need to work for it. Work meaning either run the quests and get it or run other quests, sell goodies and buy the loot you want.

    This is kinda off-topic so I'll stop here. I see your reasons but I don't think they should stop the EN/EH/EE loot. It gives players reasons to run EE quests.
    I have run them on elite only 2 or 3 times on various characters, I can only solo EH difficulty for most quests. When it takes 30+minutes to get 1 join request for when I post to do EE eveningstar quests, I get bored of the game real quick, just faster to solo it on EH, atleast I'm doing something while logged into the game.
    I'm happy that you can do multiple elite farming runs in a week, I cant. It might take me a year to get 2-3 elite runs in a given quest. All I'm asking for is to be able to get my item to the best available version, even if I have to farm some commedations to upgrade it. If it drops on elite difficulty let it be fully unlocked, and let those of us that were not lucky enough to get one on an elite run still be able to have the real version of it instead of some sub-par version that is really shiney vendor trash.
    Players have a reason to run EE quests, favor, unlocks various patron rewards, higher drop rates, more valuable vendor trash

    How many of your elite farming runs are pugs and how many are filled with guildies and/or a few close friends that are not in your guild? Thats the difference, you have a body of others that are willing to spend the time to help you get some item, not everyone has that body of support.
    Last edited by SofiaNRage; 01-31-2013 at 01:08 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SofiaNRage View Post
    I have run them on elite only 2 or 3 times on various characters, I can only solo EH difficulty for most quests. When it takes 30+minutes to get 1 join request for when I post to do EE eveningstar quests, I get bored of the game real quick, just faster to solo it on EH, atleast I'm doing something while logged into the game.
    I'm happy that you can do multiple elite farming runs in a week, I cant. It might take me a year to get 2-3 elite runs in a given quest. All I'm asking for is to be able to get my item to the best available version, even if I have to farm some commedations to upgrade it. If it drops on elite difficulty let it be fully unlocked, and let those of us that were not lucky enough to get one on an elite run still be able to have the real version of it instead of some sub-par version that is really shiney vendor trash.
    Players have a reason to run EE quests, favor, unlocks various patron rewards, higher drop rates, more valuable vendor trash

    How many of your elite farming runs are pugs and how many are filled with guildies and/or a few close friends that are not in your guild? Thats the difference, you have a body of others that are willing to spend the time to help you get some item, not everyone has that body of support.

    You make it sound like EE is dropping eSoS's compared to EH only dropping plain +5 Greatswords. That isnt the case at all. EH loot is almost exactly the same as the EE loot, the difference is only very minor in almost all the cases.
    I think you need to visit DDOWiki and actually look at what the differences between the versions are, because I doubt anyone that actually knew them would say the kind of things you said.

    As to your reasons for people to run EE quests, favor and unlocking patron rewards are the same thing and is only good for one playthrough, droprates are actually lower as you could run the same quest multiple times on EH in the time you did it once on EE and more valuable vender loot? are you serious?

    As someone above me brought up, the loot you get in EH is unbound so can be sold with the proceeds going towards getting the EE loot which are always for sale in the marketplace on the forums.

    I think the most important reason to have tiered loot is to cater for people with more time to play DDO. You don't do that and the vets get bored and start quitting the game en masse, which I think is an idea the Devs are starting to get after Motu

  11. #31
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SofiaNRage View Post
    I have run them on elite only 2 or 3 times on various characters, I can only solo EH difficulty for most quests. When it takes 30+minutes to get 1 join request for when I post to do EE eveningstar quests, I get bored of the game real quick, just faster to solo it on EH, atleast I'm doing something while logged into the game.
    I'm happy that you can do multiple elite farming runs in a week, I cant. It might take me a year to get 2-3 elite runs in a given quest. All I'm asking for is to be able to get my item to the best available version, even if I have to farm some commedations to upgrade it. If it drops on elite difficulty let it be fully unlocked, and let those of us that were not lucky enough to get one on an elite run still be able to have the real version of it instead of some sub-par version that is really shiney vendor trash.
    Players have a reason to run EE quests, favor, unlocks various patron rewards, higher drop rates, more valuable vendor trash

    How many of your elite farming runs are pugs and how many are filled with guildies and/or a few close friends that are not in your guild? Thats the difference, you have a body of others that are willing to spend the time to help you get some item, not everyone has that body of support.


    Why do you need best in slot gear then?

    Running EH quests in mixed EN/EH gear is a LOT easier than running EE quests in mixed EH/EE gear.

    Actually running EH in total rubbish gear is easier than running EE in absolute best-in-slot gear.

    Running EN or EH in best-in-slot gear is like running Waterworks on a level 10 - fun for a minute or two, but no replayablity at all as what you do doesn't matter, you just win.



    Quote Originally Posted by shadereaper33 View Post
    I think part of the problem is that FoS is trying to create items that are "good" without being "great", so that nothing will become best in slot. The issue with that approach is that most of us actually want raid loot quality items to be either best in slot, or really close to it. Otherwise, there isn't any point in trying to get them, as we can get other items that are just as good much easier from regular quests.
    I doubt there will be many characters that do not consider at least one Fall of Truth item to be best in slot. I know that I will aspire toward at least one item on each of my characters (even if they aren't perma-equipped).

    Plus there has only been ONE epic elite completion so far and maybe a dozen completions total. Who knows what other surprises might be on the loot tables? We have all the core items, but there could be Fate tomes, unique augments like the Globe of Imperial Blood, +5s, tokens to upgrade EN/EH versions of non-raid items to EE, Hearts of Wood or other things on the loot tables.
    Last edited by sirgog; 01-31-2013 at 02:53 AM.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SofiaNRage View Post
    I have run them on elite only 2 or 3 times on various characters, I can only solo EH difficulty for most quests. When it takes 30+minutes to get 1 join request for when I post to do EE eveningstar quests, I get bored of the game real quick, just faster to solo it on EH, atleast I'm doing something while logged into the game.
    I'm happy that you can do multiple elite farming runs in a week, I cant. It might take me a year to get 2-3 elite runs in a given quest. All I'm asking for is to be able to get my item to the best available version, even if I have to farm some commedations to upgrade it. If it drops on elite difficulty let it be fully unlocked, and let those of us that were not lucky enough to get one on an elite run still be able to have the real version of it instead of some sub-par version that is really shiney vendor trash.
    It sounds more and more like you are complaining that you can't/won't run EE quests but you NEED EE loot. WHY? I've asked already this question twice and yet you haven't answered.

    Why would you need to have EE loot if you aren't running EE quests? It makes absolutely no sense.

    Players have a reason to run EE quests, favor, unlocks various patron rewards, higher drop rates, more valuable vendor trash
    This made me laugh. So, you want us to run EE quests once and done? More valuable vendor trash? I can assure you that without better loot, noone, and I repeat NOONE, will ever run EE again. You have no idea what you are talking about.

    How many of your elite farming runs are pugs and how many are filled with guildies and/or a few close friends that are not in your guild? Thats the difference, you have a body of others that are willing to spend the time to help you get some item, not everyone has that body of support
    My elite farming runs were done in COMPLETE PUGS till ~2 months ago. My guild is me and my gf so no guildies. NOW, my farming runs are done with half friends and half PUGS. You have NO EXCUSE to not farm an elite run, there are so many ways you can do them, pugs or not.

  13. #33
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SofiaNRage View Post
    I'm glad you have the time to farm some EE loot, so to made to feel gimp because i don't have the same time or guildies willing to farm something, makes me less willing to play the game or even spend any more money for future updates, and it doesn't make me less of a player. I should be able to get the same level of gear even if its over a longer span of time, not to feel sub par because I can only get in a pug group that can do en or eh, I'm willing to farm commendations to spend for the upgrade, but I should be penalized because I don't have guild/friend depth to help me get EE loot.
    Even the elite farming players are only willing to hard farm if they can't get their friends to come. This muloi tiered loot table will chase away the more casual player, because they feel gimpy when they receive subpar version of an EE item. If there's no way to get the same quality of item, then theres less reason to get the item or invest time in the game
    I've never seen a EE item in the ah or offered for trade, and the en/eh versions are not worth the plat being asked for such a sub par item when a better version of the item exists
    Dont fall into the trap that you have to have the absolute best in slot item in each slot to play the game, and the second best in slot item is worthless because theres a better item. This is a powergamer philosophy, and since you outlined that you dont have the time to be a powergamer, its not a good idea to set goals based on saying that eveything that isnt the best item is worthless.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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