Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38
  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    43

    Default Stealth and the solo player

    While dabbling around with builds (see my heavy armor, explorer, and artificer threads )

    I am curious if stealth is useful for a mostly solo adventurer.

    In looking at the DDO wiki, it mentions many creatures that are NOT affected by hiding - undead, vermin, those with "smell", etc.

    Is it worth investing hide / move silent points in a build (thinking 1 Rog / 19 Ranger here mostly) for a mostly solo char?

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    5,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oldweasel View Post
    Is it worth investing hide / move silent points in a build (thinking 1 Rog / 19 Ranger here mostly) for a mostly solo char?
    I like having it when I can spare the skill points. Don't plan on stealthing around through everything (you can do a decent amount of it if you REALLY want), but it's nice to skip some encounters here or there and focus on the task at hand. Unfortunately, they don't support a full stealth playstyle very well, often placing doors/walls/obstructions in your way that require you to kill things to pass.

  3. #3
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Hungary, Budapest
    Posts
    779

    Default

    Sneaking is really hard, but not impossible.
    And the most important is, its fun!
    You just have to be smart, and that comes with experience (not character xp).
    Its possible to skip most of the fights in ddo, if you have the tools for it. High sneak skills arent enough. Sometimes mobs watch doors you have to open. Make them look elsewhere. Often you have to plan ahead, but while playing that way, you will find another game in ddo. Thats why i like it.

    And as a side note: once you learned to sneak past mobs in quests, you will become a lot better in teamplay as well, since you will know exactly how the quests works, and how mobs react.
    Cannith
    Csodaszarvas
    Valyria - Hulkie - Sillymilly - Killberry - Silvyanna - Walour - Corgak - Thalrian-1

  4. #4
    The Hatchery
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moltier View Post
    Sneaking is really hard, but not impossible.
    I disagree; it's not too hard to get it down.

    PERFECT sneaking, where you never alert a mob or get into (unnecessary) fights, is pretty hard to do. But stealth can still be used to skip past tons of fights, which saves you time and resources.

    It's easily the most underrated ability. OP, if you have the skill points, I would get it.

  5. #5
    Community Member Hordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Meridia Suburb of Stormreach, Xen'Drik. But have a vacation home in Cordova, Tennessee
    Posts
    2,206

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moltier View Post
    Sneaking is really hard, but not impossible.
    And the most important is, its fun!
    You just have to be smart, and that comes with experience (not character xp).
    Its possible to skip most of the fights in ddo, if you have the tools for it. High sneak skills arent enough. Sometimes mobs watch doors you have to open. Make them look elsewhere. Often you have to plan ahead, but while playing that way, you will find another game in ddo. Thats why i like it.

    And as a side note: once you learned to sneak past mobs in quests, you will become a lot better in teamplay as well, since you will know exactly how the quests works, and how mobs react.
    Agreed.

    But what I would REALLY like is, much like in table-top, a way to outsmart/outthink the enemy mobs rather than it all coming down, more or less, to a melee beatdown. I'd love alternate ways to finish the same quest...there are a few that are doable, but the majority involve a beatdown of some kind...and many times a clever player in PnP could avoid that. I would be hard to code, but would expand the fun IMHO.
    -Khyber- Loreseekers, Guild Leader
    Hordorabbi ~ Hordiva ~ Hordazzle ~ Hordorc ~ Hordeau ~ And dozens of other HordoToons™!
    High Rabbi of DDO
    Loreseekers Guild ~ H.o.r.d.o.'s How-To Guides @Loreseekers

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hordo View Post
    Agreed.

    But what I would REALLY like is, much like in table-top, a way to outsmart/outthink the enemy mobs rather than it all coming down, more or less, to a melee beatdown. I'd love alternate ways to finish the same quest...there are a few that are doable, but the majority involve a beatdown of some kind...and many times a clever player in PnP could avoid that. I would be hard to code, but would expand the fun IMHO.

    Agree, having trouble as a solo player taking on quests that have keep-alive goals and end-zergs (Redemption on Korthos Island is a perfect example), wish there was a stealth alternative to those

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    4,598

    Default

    I think one of the best resources regarding stealth is Mr Cow

    As a note, you can substitute Hide with Invisibility (Potion/UMD). Move silent is still needed.

    Creatures with abilities like True Seeing will see past the Invisibility. Spiders with tremor sense and animals with smell will make sneaking past them difficult, but there are other options - especially sense your planning on ranger in your build that should help negate them as an issue.

    I believe Mr Cow has several You-Tube vids on how to use stealth to complete dungeons.

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Stealth bard virtuoso is just awesome. You can sneak close enough (if you can't go pass enemies) fascinate/enthrall them and take them then one by one.

  9. #9
    Community Member LoneWolfie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    211

    Default

    As a mainly solo player i find strategies of all kinds to be important... it all depends on the character i am playing, build, quest/area i am doing. For instance i wouldn't use the same strategy on a Sorc as i would on my Arti. Stealth can be very useful to some builds/character types. It is somewhat boring also on some builds. Trying out different strategies and learning what works and doesn't is all part of becoming a better player. Those who always rush head first into everything will never truly improve.

  10. #10
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    In a galaxy far, far away.
    Posts
    1,341

    Default

    The difficulty: Only rogues get the faster sneaking enhancements. Sneaking without the faster sneaking enhancements puts me to sleep. Unfortunately, rogues are crappy at solo combat. Granted, you can sap one, bluff another, and port in a hireling to attract agro, but it's still a pain.
    Unfamiliar with DDO's combat mechanics? Check here and here.

  11. #11
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    1,065

    Default

    It's worth mentioning that if you do have to break stealth to open doors you should summon an animal ally or something else that holds agro, that way you can resume stealth after the lever/whatever is pulled and in most cases get away without having to fight.

    -
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenNova View Post
    The difficulty: Only rogues get the faster sneaking enhancements. Sneaking without the faster sneaking enhancements puts me to sleep. Unfortunately, rogues are crappy at solo combat. Granted, you can sap one, bluff another, and port in a hireling to attract agro, but it's still a pain.
    Rangers get Sprint Action Boost. Worth using when there's monsters around to quickly get away and reduce boredom/chance of getting caught.
    Last edited by Mastikator; 01-25-2013 at 07:22 AM.
    That which does not kill you gives you experience points.

    (Fighter->Fighter->Fighter->Monk->Monk->Barbarian->Paladin->Ranger)

  12. #12
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenNova View Post
    The difficulty: Only rogues get the faster sneaking enhancements.
    Monks get faster sneaking as part of their Ninja Spy prestige line.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
    Toy Soldiers

  13. #13
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,540

    Default

    Stealth can be useful on any character. Casters can use it to get within spell range of groups without being noticed. Melee of all variety can use it even without investment to pull groups apart one by one so they don't get overwhelmed by numbers. Anyone can just use it to avoid encounters entirely.

  14. #14
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oldweasel View Post
    While dabbling around with builds (see my heavy armor, explorer, and artificer threads )

    I am curious if stealth is useful for a mostly solo adventurer.

    In looking at the DDO wiki, it mentions many creatures that are NOT affected by hiding - undead, vermin, those with "smell", etc.

    Is it worth investing hide / move silent points in a build (thinking 1 Rog / 19 Ranger here mostly) for a mostly solo char?
    Yep. If you are mostly solo, you'll really want to invest in the stealth skills. And when I say stealth skills, what I mean are the following:

    1) Sneaking,
    2) Bluff.

    The whole point of stealth is to run a quest without being noticed. Yeah, sneaking by stuff is not getting noticed...so is bluff pulling. If you can pull one mob at a time, kill them, and avoid the rest then you've applied stealth. The whole point is to avoid grabbing aggro on more than you can handle at any given encounter. And for a solo player it is amazingly effective.

    According to what I've learned from Mr. Cow, hiding is just about plain useless. It is a niche skill.

    There are other stealth methods like noise pulling (shooting an arrow into a wall to attract mobs away from where you want to go) which do not require any sort of skill other than using a bow. But you're a ranger - that stuff is second nature to you.

    Of course, stealth all falls apart when you get into a PUG where everyone runs around smacking and killing stuff as fast as humanly possible. So be prepared to switch tactics when you have to move off solo work.

    You'll have problems with spiders, vermin, and a few others where silent movement means nothing. That's just something you have to take into consideration. After all, the game is designed such that no skill is desired above all others in most instances (unless you are a caster, in which case Concentration becomes skill #1).
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  15. #15
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    10,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oldweasel View Post
    While dabbling around with builds (see my heavy armor, explorer, and artificer threads )

    I am curious if stealth is useful for a mostly solo adventurer.

    In looking at the DDO wiki, it mentions many creatures that are NOT affected by hiding - undead, vermin, those with "smell", etc.Is it worth investing hide / move silent points in a build (thinking 1 Rog / 19 Ranger here mostly) for a mostly solo char?
    If this is what the Wiki says... wow... does that need changing!

    Nothing in DDO technically "smells". But some creatures have high Spot and Listen scores.

    Some creatures have Blindsense, Tremorsense, or Life sense(which is probably the same as tremorsense in DDO)

    Some creatures can See Invisibility (but you can still "hide" from them). either always or after buffing themselves.

    All monsters seem to "hear" very well in DDO. But some hear better than others.
    Caster types, at least shaman/cleric types, who would naturally have a high Wisdom (Spot and Listen are Wisdom based skills)
    And just about all Cats hear very well.

    Monsters that hear you move slowly closer to you.... until they get close enough to see you.
    Then they fully agro on you and try to atack you.

    They tell other monsters near them that they are attacking something.
    The nearby monsters move slowly toward the atacking monster.... until they too can see you and then they agro on you.

    All of this means that even if one monster knows you are there is is actively attacking you, you may stil be able to avoid having other monsters attack you as well.
    (but this is difficult and most players panic as soon as one monster attacks them)(of course quite often you get knocked out of sneak mode by one monster which allows other monsters to see you.....but still.....)








    BTW, I happen to be one of the few players who thinks that stealth is very useful while grouping... not just soloing. (PUGs especially )
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    397

    Default

    It's not all that useful at all. Stealth DCs are so absurdly high that only the most stealth-built TRs can sneak well, assuming that a random mob doesn't just decide to detect you for fun, even if you've snuck past other mobs, same type, same quest on same difficulty, and closer than you were to that one. Even if sneaking was made more viable in these ways, quest design in DDO strongly discourages sneaking.

  17. #17
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin-ator View Post
    It's not all that useful at all. Stealth DCs are so absurdly high that only the most stealth-built TRs can sneak well, assuming that a random mob doesn't just decide to detect you for fun, even if you've snuck past other mobs, same type, same quest on same difficulty, and closer than you were to that one. Even if sneaking was made more viable in these ways, quest design in DDO strongly discourages sneaking.
    Not to be snarky here, but quest design also strongly discourages success in general.

    You can sneak by mobs at level if you run your toon right, even on a first life. Yes, you have to make a heavy investment in sneaking...then again, if you are a nuker, you have to invest heavily into doing damage as well. Everything depends on your focus.
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  18. #18
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    BTW, I happen to be one of the few players who thinks that stealth is very useful while grouping... not just soloing. (PUGs especially )
    So do I.

    I just wish there were more people who PUG who thought that stealth was actually useful.

    A whole lotta people out there in a big rush to get to the end of the quest.

    I remember one run in Monastary of the Scorpion where we were short-manned. I was on my rogue, and I'd be the one to sneak around behind the casters in a room with a lever. I'd assassinate the caster, and everyone else would run in and take out the rest. I'd also be able to get a good assessment as to what needed to be taken down before the fight started.
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  19. #19
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    10,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    So do I.

    I just wish there were more people who PUG who thought that stealth was actually useful.

    A whole lotta people out there in a big rush to get to the end of the quest.

    I remember one run in Monastary of the Scorpion where we were short-manned. I was on my rogue, and I'd be the one to sneak around behind the casters in a room with a lever. I'd assassinate the caster, and everyone else would run in and take out the rest. I'd also be able to get a good assessment as to what needed to be taken down before the fight started.
    lol... well.. I kinda meant.. when the party is "not" cooperating.

    Although, you could have meant that you go ahead of the group,..... Assassinate the casters... before the PUGgers have a chance to get there and screw things up.


    (one of the best ways to use stealth in a group of zergers is to zerge the fastest.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  20. #20
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    lol... well.. I kinda meant.. when the party is "not" cooperating.

    Although, you could have meant that you go ahead of the group,..... Assassinate the casters... before the PUGgers have a chance to get there and screw things up.


    (one of the best ways to use stealth in a group of zergers is to zerge the fastest.)
    Kinda hard to do in sneak mode (unless you've got some eighty-bazillion enhancements in faster sneaking). But yeah, I've done that too. Of course I posted something about doing just that a while back - sneaking ahead and assassinating - and I took ALL sorts of flack from the forum community for not sticking with the group, and doing SA damage.

    Cripes, sneaking behind the caster and waiting for one of the group to appear in the horizion so I could assassinate the enemy was pretty frickin' fun!

    Some people are in just so much of a hurry they don't take the time to appreciate the finer things in life...
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload