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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedime View Post
    Yeah but you must have noticed the reaction it created : many peeps think everything will be btc, or lvl 24 will be BTC or old item if they are upgraded will become BTC.
    To which I say, no, the only BTC item, right now is the bottle of rum.

    Now you say that BTC is bad, that's your feeling. Go ask peeps in permadeath or role play guilds which don't allow twink gear what they think. Go ask ppl with only 5-6 toons what they think.

    If some of your toon aren't good enough for CC farming, remember the items only are BTC so you can pass doubloons, dragonshards and gems to the right toon and let him craft his bottle.

    I would tend to share your point of view, but simply :
    1. there's been an over-reaction on this thread, ppl seem to confuse things
    2. because it's located in return to crystal cove it shouldn't be linked to other challenges (I didn't buy the EStar challenge pack for the BTC reason) or other quests items.
    The ingredients not being BtC are a mitigator, I admit to that. It is still inconsistent with the other items which are great for passing to other characters that are being leveled. I have like 4 pairs of the swords (both brigand's cutlass and cut-throat's smallblade) that I take in and out of the shared bank to use at various levels, but most of my characters have the level 20 version. Not that it matters much now on those as they became obsolete with the release of MotU.


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    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    No, once upgraded they're BTC.
    Which items are you talking about?

    I created a bunch of Tier 3 items on lamannia and nothing but the rum and runearm (after equipping) became BTC.

    I did this after the patch last week. Perhaps things were behaving differently before that.

  3. #63

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    He's probably confusing them with cannith challenges, which go from bta to btc on tier 3.

    Not only don't cove items go to btc on tier 3, you can even slot the tier 3 epic versions with epic augments and they still stay bta.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post

    Not only don't cove items go to btc on tier 3, you can even slot the tier 3 epic versions with epic augments and they still stay bta.
    Yeah. That one was a pretty big surprise.

  5. #65
    Community Member Yehediah's Avatar
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    Default Agree Insane

    Agreed. All this BtC stuff is insane. Almost all things below 20 should be BtA so you can share among alts (with rare exceptions). You use very little stuff below 16 for more than a few hours of playtime and you out-level it.

    This is a huge step backwards. Sometimes I just don't understand what the dev's are smoking...
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehediah View Post
    Agreed. All this BtC stuff is insane. Almost all things below 20 should be BtA so you can share among alts (with rare exceptions). You use very little stuff below 16 for more than a few hours of playtime and you out-level it.

    This is a huge step backwards. Sometimes I just don't understand what the dev's are smoking...
    They aren't smoking anything. BtC increases the grind. Every design decision they've made recently clearly demonstrates that regardless of what they say on the matter, the goal is to increase the grind.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    They aren't smoking anything. BtC increases the grind. Every design decision they've made recently clearly demonstrates that regardless of what they say on the matter, the goal is to increase the grind.
    Actually, with all the new loot from the last several updates being BtCoE, I'd argue that reduces grind. I certainly appreciate it more, since I can do multiple things to try to acquire gear I want rather than grinding one specific piece of content to death trying to get the one item for the one character I want it on. Yes, the whole "Heroic Commendation" thing reeks of a cash-grab to sell raid-bypasses but other than that new approach to raid items, overall I think they've made a few strides forward.

    Being able to not only buy equipment, but freely trade it to whomever you want prior to equipping it not only boosts the in-game economy but it also helps facilitate group-building, something that was suffering badly. Why play a healer, when the rewards for healers have been lackluster? But now, you can play a healer and still be rewarded for it because if you pull neat loot that, say, your Wizard can use then you can trade it over to him rather than staring longingly at it and cursing your decision to play that specific toon.

    That said, I do agree that making the new CC items BTC when upgraded is foolish and a significant step backwards. Now, people will have to grind this tedious, oft frustrating minigame for many more hours if they want it several specific toons when previously they could make one or two and then trade them around when they wanted to play that character, saving quite a bit of time. And what for? Isn't CC free to all? Aside from the lazy handful who pay TP for the compasses, they aren't profiting from it, are they? So when then, make it as grindy and laborious as possible? It's silly.
    Last edited by djl; 03-01-2013 at 01:31 AM.

  8. #68
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Actually, with all the new loot from the last several updates being BtCoE, I'd argue that reduces grind.
    Only if you're planning on buying the item off the AH, beyond that its still just as grindy to acquire as a BtC item. The only difference is is that you have freedom on choosing the toon you want to farm the item on. You still have to farm the item for every toon that's planning on using it, unlike with BtA where you only need to grind it once and share it across toons.

  9. #69
    The Hatchery Nedime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    That said, I do agree that making the new CC items BTC when upgraded is foolish and a significant step backwards.
    (running in circles, hands in the air)

    OMG it's BtC, it's BtC.

    (stops and thinks)

    Wait a minute ? What is BtC ?

    (checks Lamma)

    Oh that bottle of rum you'll want all your toons to possess ?
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  10. #70
    Community Member Yehediah's Avatar
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    Default Right...

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    They aren't smoking anything. BtC increases the grind. Every design decision they've made recently clearly demonstrates that regardless of what they say on the matter, the goal is to increase the grind.
    So, their smoking has made them delusional. Grinding for low level stuff is a total waste of time and the number that will do so is very very small. Ergo - a very bad decision to have all that low level BtC stuff. All it does is make many mad and do little to increase the grind - which is, honestly, in itself a flawed idea.
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  11. #71
    The Hatchery Nedime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehediah View Post
    So, their smoking has made them delusional. Grinding for low level stuff is a total waste of time and the number that will do so is very very small. Ergo - a very bad decision to have all that low level BtC stuff. All it does is make many mad and do little to increase the grind - which is, honestly, in itself a flawed idea.
    Hey guys cove is open, go check things before complaining.
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  12. #72
    Founder & Hero Steiner-Davion's Avatar
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    The problemis that there are now way to many systems in place:

    non-binding
    BtC
    BtA
    BtCoE
    BtAoE
    BtC on upgrade to new tier
    BtA on upgrade to new tier (not really sure about this one)

    It is really easy to get confused as to what does what, and whatbinds and what doesn't and all that.

    DDO was simple when it first released: it was either non-bind (everything not Raid loot) and BtC Raid Loot.

    It is no simple now.

    The "simple" answer would be to go through and revise everything in game to conform to the same standard. What the standard should be, on the other hand, is not quite so simple or easy to come up with.

    The main reason for all of this is, the fact that there have been many Devs over the years who have worked on creating loot/equipment/items, and they have all had varying ideas about what they think should be. No one wasever told by the powers that be, no you can't do that because we don't do that here in DDO.

  13. #73
    Community Member Yehediah's Avatar
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    Default Hmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nedime View Post
    Hey guys cove is open, go check things before complaining.
    I'm not sure that is relevant. Yes, some people here were complaining about CC being BtC (incorrectly?) - and, last I checked on the preview, it was not. The OP and I believe the bulk of the complaints (mine included) are with the last update adding tons more BtC on Equip stuff - especially low level stuff.
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  14. #74
    The Hatchery Nedime's Avatar
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    Well in this case start another thread in General Forum, not on Forums > Lamannia Server > Lamannia - Return to Crystal Cove.
    Back to the cove.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marupal View Post
    Which items are you talking about?

    I created a bunch of Tier 3 items on lamannia and nothing but the rum and runearm (after equipping) became BTC.

    I did this after the patch last week. Perhaps things were behaving differently before that.
    Actually the rune arm is BTA on equip, not BTC :-)

  16. #76
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    I mean really.

    WHY?

    Were you guys not able to become dentists but still feel you must inflict pain on the general populace?

    tl;dr; whatever; Me no like.
    BtC adds to grind. From an MMO designer's perspective, that's a good thing.

    More time on the hamster wheel = less need for new content = players don't "use up" the content and leave the game.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steiner-Davion View Post
    It is no simple now.

    The "simple" answer would be to go through and revise everything in game to conform to the same standard. What the standard should be, on the other hand, is not quite so simple or easy to come up with.

    The main reason for all of this is, the fact that there have been many Devs over the years who have worked on creating loot/equipment/items, and they have all had varying ideas about what they think should be. No one wasever told by the powers that be, no you can't do that because we don't do that here in DDO.

    I agree it is not so simple. I believe the main reason for the binding started on the premise that the 'powers that be' (devs and/or prodcuers) did not want loot to be shared with players who had not bought that pack; Red Fens really started this I believe - all BtC level (9ish stuff). As they were pushing the DDO Store purchases, loot hounds would not have a 'purpose' to buy content if they could trade or buy the loot from the AH.
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  18. #78
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    The level of what they consider as acceptable grind for us has increased in recent times and moving ingreds, items, etc. to BtC is a part of that.

    Complaining might get it changed. Personally I'm boycotting any ridiculous grindy challenges with BtC ingreds/rewards and will hope others do the same, so that the data tells the story of our dissatisfaction.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    BtC adds to grind. From an MMO designer's perspective, that's a good thing.

    More time on the hamster wheel = less need for new content = players don't "use up" the content and leave the game.
    Except that crappy formula ignores the fact that people get sick of the grind and leave out of resentment.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimkj View Post
    Except that crappy formula ignores the fact that people get sick of the grind and leave out of resentment.
    That's true. I agree that it makes for a less fun game. Unfortunately, more people stay because of grind than leave because of grind. It's a very, very sad truth.

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