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  1. #1
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Default Epic Elite Checklist...

    I just want to make a Checklist for what is needed for Epic Elite.

    Remember, this is for Epic Elite, not Shroud on Normal...

    I want to break it down by class/party slot...

    Heavy Melee Needs:

    HP: I was thinking 600+
    Weapons: A way to have Ghost Touch
    At least a Tier 3 Green Steel
    Potions: Some Cure Serious Pots
    Remove Disease
    Lesser Restore
    Remove Curse
    Silver Flame Pots (really try hard to get these)
    Invise Pots or Invis Clickies
    Clicky: GH, Raise Dead, something to make you immune to fear
    Deathward
    Fortification: 100% and 25% exceptional

    Ranged DPS
    HP: 500ish
    Weapons: Same as heavy melee
    Potions: Some Cure Serious Pots
    Remove Disease
    Lesser Restore
    Remove Curse
    Ability to Heal Scroll or Silver Flame Pots
    Invis Clickies or Invis Pots
    Clicky: GH, Raise Dead, something to make you immune to fear
    Deathward
    Fortification: 100% and 25% exceptional

    Healers (I don't play a healbot, but it is MY job to keep others up in EE...anything less than that...)
    HP: 500ish
    Weapons: Depends on playstyle
    Potions: Some Cure Serious Pots (just in case)
    Remove Disease
    Lesser Restore
    Remove Curse
    Invis Pots or Invis Clickies
    Clicky: GH, Raise Dead, something to make you immune to fear
    Deathward (I generally only have the mass version loaded) If I die...a clicky saves SP in a pinch
    Fortification: 100% and 25% exceptional

    Casters:
    HP: 450ish
    Weapons: YMMV
    Potions: Some Cure Serious Pots
    Remove Disease
    Lesser Restore
    Remove Curse
    Clicky: GH, Raise Dead, something to make you immune to fear
    Deathward
    Fortification: 100% and 25% exceptional
    DCs: 50+ (Vellrad who I think knows what he is talking about said that 52+ is what to aim for)

    EVERYONE NEEDS:
    Deathblock item (in case dispel is spammed)
    An item to absorb spells...PLIS Stone, Mantle of Worlshaper, Spell-Proofing items...


    I realize certain classes can fit into multiple categories...

    Bards...Arcane Archer Bards....Warchanters...Spell Singers...

    Clerics...Battle CLerics...Evokers...Heal Bots


    Everyone needs good saves...

    For EE...be in a real destiny for your class

    Blerkington pointed out to know aggro management...sooo

    Know What Tactics are...
    Kill Casters/Clerics first (should be doing this on all difficulties)
    Don't aggro the whole room by yourself.
    Don't run around at half HP (a trip or command or symbol of stunning can kill you easily)
    Don't sprint boost and jump into the middle of 5 melees and scream over voice, "HJEAL MEH!"

    EDITED/ADDED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


    Anyway, feel free to add to or correct this...just trying to make a checklist.

    Yes, this is a response to that "How Come People are Afraid of EE?" thread.

    Remember...this is kinda a Bare Minimum type suggestion for Epic Elites.

    The Caster with a DC in the mid 30s is getting carried...
    The melee with 0 healing amp is a burden...
    The melee swinging a lordsmarch weapon is a burden...
    The healer with 350 HP that dies at the first sight of aggro is a burden...
    The toon with an ROG or Arty Icon that cannot get traps is confusing to some people (you don't have to be trapper specced...just be able to get them)

    Also feel free to copy/paste this thread into your Bio...and in a NICE way direct a PUG here if you feel they are struggling.

    I have enjoyed this thread myself, and I have learned a lot from it.

    I did not make this as a way to troll, I really just wanted a guide made by the community for people to look at.

    This OP has gotten really long...I suggest reading the whole thread to anyone who is serious about doing EE's.

    Lotsa different viewpoints and they can apply to you.

    Some people completed the EE's at 20 with no destinies by just taking it really slow for instance.

    Some people zerg and crush stuff really fast...well those type of PLAYERS/TOONS better be built to kill stuff fast and withstand spike damage really well.

    Oh yeah...unless you BYOH (not counting a Hireling!) please have Healing amp.
    Last edited by Bacab; 01-28-2013 at 10:25 AM.
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  2. #2
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    I would add good destiny, or at least twists.

    Yes, if you din't bought destinies from the store, EE is not for you.
    Yes, if you are in destiny provinding you nothing, speak with fatespinner.
    If you are in low level destiny, or in destiny which is medicore for your class, at least twist something good.

    I've seen many people stepping into EE with wrong destinies expecting to be carried by team. This is not how it should be.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post

    Yes, if you din't bought destinies from the store, EE is not for you.
    How did people complete Epics (with no diff settings) before destinies came out then?
    Crib Goch

  4. #4
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crib View Post
    How did people complete Epics (with no diff settings) before destinies came out then?
    There was no EE in times before destinies. Old epics was a little harder than todays EH.

    For example, DC42 was enough to affect most monsters, now with DC52 in EE they save very often. In old epics, +40- +45 spell pen was usually enough, now you need +50- +60 to hit EE drow and other high SR mobs. Monsters was dealing something like 50-100 damage, now its 100-200, or 100-300 on EE.
    Last edited by Vellrad; 01-24-2013 at 03:10 AM.

  5. #5
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    melee: heal amp
    all: saves
    all who can: some CC (spells, stun, trip, fascinate, ED abilities, anything helps)

    healers: saves and balance(!)
    Last edited by cru121; 01-24-2013 at 03:14 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    I think your weapon minimum ought to be at LEAST T3 GS.

    In reality T2 GS weapons aren't fantastic, and you'll get better quality items from the AH as a result of random lootgen.

  7. #7
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNuegebauer View Post
    I think your weapon minimum ought to be at LEAST T3 GS.

    In reality T2 GS weapons aren't fantastic, and you'll get better quality items from the AH as a result of random lootgen.
    I actually agree with you, but did not want to be the first to say it...

    Updated!
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  8. #8
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    Hi,

    That checklist is a good start, but to me it looks like what everyone should have at endgame, even if they are slumming in EN or EH.

    I'd say the number one thing to bring to EE is an understanding of aggro management. You die very quickly in EE pulling the same BS that you can get away with just fine in EH.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 01-24-2013 at 03:54 AM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    I just want to make a Checklist for what is needed for Epic Elite.

    DCs: 45+ (Vellrad who I think knows what he is talking about said that 52 is what to aim for)
    DC 45 is too weak for EE, you will need a lot of neg levels and debuffs to make your spell land.

    When my wizard had DC50 I still had quite big failure rate, after increasing it to 52 spells were landing more often than not, but still, it was not an auto succes like DC45 in old epics.

    If I would have to set a point to aim for, I would say DC50, with few debuffs (like hypnotism, crushing despair, improved sunder from melees, negative levels, magister school something (forgotten name), solid fog, negative levels). After reducing saves by 3-5 my DC52 was landing rerialably. Even mentioned DC45 will have decent succes rate if monster is sufficiently prepared, but it costs a lot of spell points.

    Also, spells without DCs are handy- they allow you to take care of one uber monster- power word kill and otto's irresistible dance are very important.

    Spell power is also very important. Its been long since I TRed my wizard, but I had 200 spell power in most important types (cold, force, negative) and I think it was decent, but not a lot. For a DC caster its good point to aim for, for nuker it should be more.

    Also, I bellive each melee should carry silver flame potions. They got huge drawbacks, but they may turn wipe situation into survived long enough to take soul stones to shrine, or to run from danger where you can safely raise cleric. They're not for fighting, they're for surviving.

    Bards, Clerics, Druids, Favored souls, Paladins and Rangers should carry stack of superior ardor potions, to increase their positive spell power by 25 points. People using damage spells should carry superior (damage type) potions, or greater, if superior don't exist. Theese can be found at Jorasco Arcane Shop, for cost of 400pp.

    Quest knowledge is important for pugs- I think players shouldn't join EE pugs for quests they never been in. In guilds, where everyone knows each other its good, but in pugs its not a good idea.

  10. #10
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    My opinion on the bare minimum that would be required for most quests. Less than that, and you'll most certainly be carried through by more prepared people.

    Everyone:
    - Be able to survive more than 2 hits without a heal. Healers aren't military androids.
    - Be able to cast raise dead. No exceptions, shroud clickies are easy to make and cheap.
    - Be able to remove your own curses/etc.
    - Good saves (exactly what qualifies as good depends on the quest).
    - Have a gearswap/destiny setup that allows you to get at least 125% fortification for rogue-heavy quests (such as detour).
    - Have knowledge of how much aggro you can handle.

    Melee:
    - SF pots or at least close to no-fail heal scrolls for emergencies.
    - A relevant maxed destiny (well geared builds could let this one slip by).
    - At least 140% amp (30% gaunts, 10% ship).
    - Improved sunder.
    - A weapon better than a T3 GS.
    - If you have stunning blow/stunning fist/improved trip: a DC around the mid-fifties will neutralize most squishy enemies (casters, dretches, spiders). A DC on the 60s is ideal.

    Caster (arcane or divine):
    - A relevant maxed destiny (for spell-pen based casters, this is pretty much non-negotiable)
    - If PM wizard, have either the phiarlan cloak or the abbot robes. DP means death penalty otherwise (remember that the phiarlan cloak eats your heals!).
    - SP-based self-healing or no-fail heal scrolls with decent scroll mastery and healing amp.
    - Must-have spells: energy drain, OID (for arcanes)
    - Strong DCs on your favorite school, and ways to debuff that save (DC thresholds depend a lot on the quests you're running, for example, I felt 51 enchantment lacking in high road, even with despair/hypnotism/mindfog, but that much seemed good enough for most of motu).

    Healer
    - A decent healstick.
    - Renewal (even if you're in sentinel, twist it in, it's a huge sp saver).
    - Standard buffs and stat cures.
    - Heal scrolls, resurrection scrolls.
    Last edited by DarkForte; 01-29-2013 at 12:03 AM.
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  11. #11
    Community Member DirtySheepdip's Avatar
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    Default wow

    This is one of the best threads i've ever read. Although geared towards EE, it should be read by all.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Lycurgus's Avatar
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    A 55 enchantment DC seems to be the sweet spot for effective cc using only hypno for debuffing. 53/54 can work, but you'll notice the mobs saving far more frequently.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycurgus View Post
    A 55 enchantment DC seems to be the sweet spot for effective cc using only hypno for debuffing. 53/54 can work, but you'll notice the mobs saving far more frequently.
    Did they change it or does each 1 lower dc reduce the chance by 5%?

    I am finding a 56 spell pen and 54 dc to work well, but not as well as a 43 dc worked under the old epic system.

    I completely agree with Phil Mirror cloak for a PM. It doesn't help much with sunburst but it really keep divine punishment under control.

    I will also add insightful reflexes helps alot with a wizard's survivability in EE.
    Last edited by slarden; 01-24-2013 at 06:05 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Huh? People still use enhancement spells on wizzies?

    If you want to survive EE then know the quest, don't fight too big packs at a time, melees should use stuns and trips, life stealing weapons are awesome and bards are even better.

  15. #15
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Added Silver Flame pots for Heavy Melee (PLD, Barb, FTR, Melee RNG)>>>Needs to be UN-interuptable
    Added Heal Scroll ability for Light/Ranged DPS (can back out easier for heal scroll)
    Deathward Clickies for all

    If you can't Heal Scroll...work on SIlver Flame Pots.

    Invis Pots/Clickies for everyone that lacks the ability to cast Invis.
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  16. #16
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default +1 to OP

    And also
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    My opinion on the bare minimum that would be required for most quests. Less than that, and you'll most certainly be carried through by more prepared people. (snip...)
    I'll add later but the main thing I'd like to point out is that I think melees should probably have 145% fort minimum. A rank1 twist of Brace for Impact, rank2 if possible.
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    If you are using GS weapons still, you shouldn't be in Epic Elite. Even challenge epics are better than those and even easier to get.

    The OP melee would be a failed build I think. 600 hp seems a little light for melee. 800-1k CSW pots are pretty useless. Silver Flame pots are pretty essential for any melee that cannot UMD heal. GH pots, Extended Haste, DW pots, are all easy to get with commendations.

    Divine 600-800HP, 3k+SP
    Arcane 500-600 hP, 3k+ SP
    Good saves, or absorption items, Healing Amp, Blur/displacement,

    Find it interestng that he lists DC for spell casters but not AC or tactical feat DC's for melee.

    Also a lot of talk about DC but not enough about spell Pen. If your DC's are high but spell pen is sacrificed your CC stuff just doesn't work. Need a good balance.

    As others stated a capped main destiny with good twists,
    But for me the most important aspect of surviving Epic Elite is
    Know your role.

    Melee FVS who think that they are tanks, Sorcs with enchant focus feats and more cc spells than dmg. spells, Melee dual wielding rogues with 300hp, go home.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    Added Silver Flame pots for Heavy Melee (PLD, Barb, FTR, Melee RNG)>>>Needs to be UN-interuptable
    Meh, heal scrolls are sufficient (and probaly better) for anyone who can use them. Sure you'll fail any concentration checks but that's what you've legs for.

  19. #19
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    I

    Find it interestng that he lists DC for spell casters but not AC or tactical feat DC's for melee.
    Its extremally easy to always hit on 2, if you got decent STR and weapon, its almast always guaratned.

  20. #20
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    EE weapons-wise, i've found the sacrificial daggers from Impossible Demands are actually very effective, especially if you're not a hard-hitting LD or fury character - lots of negs in quick succession destroys their HP really quickly with the benefit of making life easier for any DC-based abilities too.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

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