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  1. #1
    Community Member Maxallu's Avatar
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    Default Scrap Heal skill (convert to healing amp or something)

    Heal is silly and mostly useless. Make it interesting, like converting it to healing amp or something.

    That is all.
    Last edited by Maxallu; 01-24-2013 at 01:06 AM.

  2. #2
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    heal and equally repair. both useless for the most part.

    They want to do something more with them but likely wont' have any time until the redo of all the enhancement pass.

  3. #3
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
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    /signed

    I'm in favor of merging / altering / dropping virtually useless skills / enhancements / feats, so I'm in favor of this.

  4. #4
    Community Member bloodnose13's Avatar
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    what those skills need is the ability fo the healer/repair kits that are supposed to work with those skills to actualy work with when character is ABOVE 0 hp and apply some healing effect that is amped by the amount of points in the heal/repair skill.

    also i would say that repair skill could have additional use for fixing blown up trap boxes, it would need trap knowledge feat and trap parts, but it would make that skill have meaning on rogues and artificers
    Last edited by bloodnose13; 01-24-2013 at 11:17 AM. Reason: thought hit me... and typo
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  5. #5
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    Heal should be converted to first aid, period. Repair should have the same name.

    Both should have the same general purpose: To restore lost hit points over time. Repair only works on constructs, while first aid works on fleshies.

    I propose that the formula for restoring lost hit points via first aid and repair should be:

    (healing = Character level X Enhancement Bonus of first aid/repair kit + 10) With a 10 second healing duration and a 2 second healing animation.

    I still support first aid and repair being used to increase how many hit points you gain resting.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    There is a great list of feats, skills, class, and racial abilities that need to have something done to them to make them worthwhile.

  7. #7
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    It's strange that you can't bind healing and repair spells to the Heal and Repair skills. Rather than Healing/Repair Amp, it'd be better if it was the basis for spellpower, and then drop the class-specific enhancements to healing/repairing. The Improved Heal enhancement would provide a slight boost to the spellpower.

    I also agree with making Heal and Repair kits work better. In fact, base D&D has Heal allow you to treat diseases and poisons: why not make it so that healing kits restore some HP (based on Heal skill), then add the chance to let it heal Poison and Disease. Since Warforged now get their own poisons and diseases (as far as I know), Repair can pull off that double duty.

  8. #8
    Community Member chrisgina39's Avatar
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    heal skill*2=heal amount
    can be used over 0 hp
    there a good tool for soloers shrine and party

  9. #9
    Community Member Davelfus's Avatar
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    Smile <cast>Raise Dead!</cast>

    Anyways, was thinking about this recently.

    They could turn healing/repair kits in a out of combat heal system, much like what l4d uses if you know that game

    1. You use a kit from your hotbar targeting yourself or a party member
    --- you go into a healing animation (like search or disable device).
    --- if you or the target takes damage, the animation is canceled.
    --- once the animation is over and the healing kicks in, the target will need to wait Xs before being a valid target again.
    ------ I think the waiting time should be some mins to value higher heal skill over using more kits.

    2. Then for X seconds the target would heal back Y hp based on your lvl and heal/repair skill
    --- if target takes damage, the effect is canceled.
    --- the over time effect would be to further avoid use in combat.

    Also it should be able to cure diseases/poisons if your heal skill beats the DC.


    it would be basicaly this... some problems that i see:

    - the classes that could use this for some selfhealing don't have the heal skill as a class skill
    - probably most ppl would still not bother with it, but at least gives some use to these skills and the items.

  10. #10
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    Never played PnP, but I have liked how the Heal skill was handled with NWN (based on 3E, DDO is based on the 3.5 rules patch), where it was sorta like a pot with a longer cast time. Maybe it could be handled similarly in DDO? A toon with a high Heal skill can heal more than with pots, but it takes some time (maybe about half that of Search) to use the healing kits. I might actually carry them.

    EDIT: Apparently, that is not how it works in PnP. Still a good idea, as mobs strong enough to be a real threat won't likely leave you between 0 and -9
    Last edited by Merlin-ator; 02-23-2013 at 08:23 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin-ator View Post
    Never played PnP, but I have liked how the Heal skill was handled with NWN (based on 3E, DDO is based on the 3.5 rules patch), where it was sorta like a pot with a longer cast time. Maybe it could be handled similarly in DDO? A toon with a high Heal skill can heal more than with pots, but it takes some time (maybe about half that of Search) to use the healing kits. I might actually carry them.
    Since you point it out, you know that's nothing like how Heal works in either 3E or 3.5 right?

    I honestly don't know what they should do with Heal/Repair since I don't know how the game determines how much is healed at a shrine.

    For reference:
    Check

    The DC and effect depend on the task you attempt.
    First Aid

    You usually use first aid to save a dying character. If a character has negative hit points and is losing hit points (at the rate of 1 per round, 1 per hour, or 1 per day), you can make him or her stable. A stable character regains no hit points but stops losing them.
    Long-Term Care

    Providing long-term care means treating a wounded person for a day or more. If your Heal check is successful, the patient recovers hit points or ability score points (lost to ability damage) at twice the normal rate: 2 hit points per level for a full 8 hours of rest in a day, or 4 hit points per level for each full day of complete rest; 2 ability score points for a full 8 hours of rest in a day, or 4 ability score points for each full day of complete rest.

    You can tend as many as six patients at a time. You need a few items and supplies (bandages, salves, and so on) that are easy to come by in settled lands. Giving long-term care counts as light activity for the healer. You cannot give long-term care to yourself.
    Treat Wound from Caltrop, Spike Growth, or Spike Stones

    A creature wounded by stepping on a caltrop moves at one-half normal speed. A successful Heal check removes this movement penalty.

    A creature wounded by a spike growth or spike stones spell must succeed on a Reflex save or take injuries that reduce his speed by one-third. Another character can remove this penalty by taking 10 minutes to dress the victim’s injuries and succeeding on a Heal check against the spell’s save DC.
    Treat Poison

    To treat poison means to tend a single character who has been poisoned and who is going to take more damage from the poison (or suffer some other effect). Every time the poisoned character makes a saving throw against the poison, you make a Heal check. The poisoned character uses your check result or his or her saving throw, whichever is higher.
    Treat Disease

    To treat a disease means to tend a single diseased character. Every time he or she makes a saving throw against disease effects, you make a Heal check. The diseased character uses your check result or his or her saving throw, whichever is higher.

    See also: epic usages of Heal.
    Action

    Providing first aid, treating a wound, or treating poison is a standard action. Treating a disease or tending a creature wounded by a spike growth or spike stones spell takes 10 minutes of work. Providing long-term care requires 8 hours of light activity.
    Try Again

    Varies. Generally speaking, you can’t try a Heal check again without proof of the original check’s failure. You can always retry a check to provide first aid, assuming the target of the previous attempt is still alive.

  12. #12
    Community Member Davelfus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    since I don't know how the game determines how much is healed at a shrine.
    If the wiki is correct, 10 + 3 * (level + maximum score in Heal of a nearby party member)

  13. #13
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    Howzabout.....

    Character level*2 + Heal Skill = the amount that you can heal either yourself or another player up to 4 times per rest? (substitute Repair for Heal to take care of our WF friends). It could be any number of times per rest that you prefer- 4 was just the first number I happened to think of.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Davelfus's Avatar
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    Could work, maybe even make: uses per rest = 2+(heal skill/10)? realisticaly how much can you get on it? 40~50?

  15. #15
    Community Member Stealthdog's Avatar
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    Every class should not have the ability to heal themselves. That has traditionally been the realm of divines in D&D history....unless I am mistaken.

    That said the skill is pretty worthless and no one should put any points into it as it is currently employed. Doesn't mean it should be changed. You think it's hard to get a cleric into a party now? Give every toon some minor self-healing abilities and no one is going to play a cleric anymore.

  16. #16
    Community Member Davelfus's Avatar
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    first, only divine classes have heal as a class skill... if anything, helps your divine save a bit of sp

    it would be used between fights, it would not work in combat, that would be the "divine" territory (also... if you are a helf with the dilly... basicaly you can heal yourself in any class, usable umd is not hard to get too)

    so basicaly the idea is to give some life to a pretty much worthless skill and allow players to heal between encounters to some extent. Like the monk ability wholeness of body if you want a ddo comparison.


    don't think it is hard to get a cleric, not even necessary when you learn how to control and position hires... (heck some hires are better than players i pugged with)


    but hell, since you think having useless stuff is good for the game, i kinda see your point... imo, if it is useless should be either changed to make you at least think if you want it or removed.

  17. #17
    Community Member Vestriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davelfus View Post
    Anyways, was thinking about this recently.

    They could turn healing/repair kits in a out of combat heal system, much like what l4d uses if you know that game

    1. You use a kit from your hotbar targeting yourself or a party member
    --- you go into a healing animation (like search or disable device).
    --- if you or the target takes damage, the animation is canceled.
    --- once the animation is over and the healing kicks in, the target will need to wait Xs before being a valid target again.
    ------ I think the waiting time should be some mins to value higher heal skill over using more kits.

    2. Then for X seconds the target would heal back Y hp based on your lvl and heal/repair skill
    --- if target takes damage, the effect is canceled.
    --- the over time effect would be to further avoid use in combat.

    Also it should be able to cure diseases/poisons if your heal skill beats the DC.
    This is a good solution.
    For #2, I would suggest something like: "Target regains X hp per 6 seconds, where X is (your heal skill +1d20) / 10, rounded up. This effect lasts for 1 minute or until target is damaged. At the end of the duration, if the target has not been damaged, he/she regains (heal skill +1d20) hp."

    This would let characters with no heal skill get back 10 to 40 hp over a minute, and characters with 50 heal skill get back 110-140 hp over a minute, assuming they avoided taking damage during that time.

  18. #18
    Community Member Stealthdog's Avatar
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    Then just get rid of it completely.

    Every toon can decide to invest points into UMD if they want the ability to heal themselves. My point was every class should not automatically have the ability to heal themselves (which is what is being proposed in this thread).

    Want to heal yourself? Roll a cleric/fvs/warforged wizard/etc, buy potions, find a clicky, or invest in UMD. Every class shouldn't get X number of heals per rest.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthdog View Post
    Every class should not have the ability to heal themselves. That has traditionally been the realm of divines in D&D history....unless I am mistaken.
    True, though most DMs, myself included, offered players some sort of very minor healing item other than potions. In my case, they were made by your local Alchemist of various herbs that grew at least moderately close to where the players were adventuring. Bring the Alchemist a couple sprigs of this, leaves of that and sprouts of the other, give him maybe 20gp per does and, Presto!- you had a d4+2 healing salve. Might not sounds like alot but then 100 hp was a very robust character in my campaigns.

    That said the skill is pretty worthless and no one should put any points into it as it is currently employed. Doesn't mean it should be changed. You think it's hard to get a cleric into a party now? Give every toon some minor self-healing abilities and no one is going to play a cleric anymore.
    Would an 80 point healing ability really replace a 400 point Mass Heal?

    In Everquest, players could learn the Bandage skill, which restored a smallish amount of hit points to either yourself or another character. Bandages could be either bought from a vendor or summoned by a Magician. It was typical for a Magician to summon a stack of 20 bandages for each person in the group prior to questing or hunting. While the ability was pretty nice and definitely came in handy, I don't think anyone would have preferred relying consistently on Bandage to keep the group alive if they could get a Cleric (Druid or Shaman). If Heal were to be implemented in a similar fashion here, I would not expect Clerics or Favored Souls to be played any less than they are now.
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  20. #20
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    Make heal provide a spellpower bonus to any healing spell. Make repair provide a spellpower bonus to any reconstruct spell.

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