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  1. #1
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    Default Change to Past Life functionality

    *update* scroll down to my response in post 9...

    Past Life flags should be tied to server for each account, rather than characters themselves, with characters getting the benefit of whatever Past Life flags you have acquired when they were created/TRed.

    What that means is, if I have an account on Cannith, and I TR a Ranger, I have one Ranger PL flag on Cannith for that account, and any new char I make on that server will have one Ranger PL. New chars wont start with any other benefits of TR, just the PL flag. If I TR a Paladin AFTER I create the Ranger, the Ranger wont get a Paladin PL until I TR the Ranger again.

    The benefit of this is that it would let you play multiple chars on a server towards your PL goals in parallel, rather than having to play them one after another, serially. So if I wanted, for example, an Arti with a PL in Sorc, Ranger, and Druid, I could have all four chars active simultaneously - even though they'd all be 28 point builds - and be able to mix up my gameplay a little bit, rather than be forced to choose one to run up to 20 before I can play the others.

    Note that this does not change the amount you're required to play in order to earn a TR, or the cost to earn the PL - you still have to play each char to 20 and TR them. And you'd still have to TR the same specific character twice to get 32 and then 36 point builds, have hard/elite unlocks, etc.

    In fact, it might even make it harder since you'd conceivably be playing 4 first-lifers to 20, rather than a 2nd and then 3rd lifer, and you'd have to equip each one individually. But I'd gladly do that in order to have the flexibility to play multiple chars without "wasting" gameplay on chars that dont count towards each other.
    Last edited by droid327; 01-25-2013 at 02:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Rubiconn's Avatar
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    Logically it makes no sense.
    The idea of a past life is your character remembers something of their past life(not another characters past life) and gets some benefit.
    The downside is you can level first life toons much faster than 2nd and 3rd life so you can gain the benefits of past life feats much too quickly. You could have a first life toon with all the past life feats without having to go through that life on one particular toon. Could you get a completionist by having 12 toons go through their first life?
    What about the active past life feats?
    What if I make 3 toons of the same class level them all to 20 can I then receive 3 past life feats for that class since they stack?
    Do we really need an easier button for past life feats?

    This suggestion is rife with problems so I would have to decline but there may be a nugget of merit in there somewhere. Keep coming up with new ideas.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubiconn View Post
    Logically it makes no sense.
    The idea of a past life is your character remembers something of their past life(not another characters past life) and gets some benefit.
    The downside is you can level first life toons much faster than 2nd and 3rd life so you can gain the benefits of past life feats much too quickly. You could have a first life toon with all the past life feats without having to go through that life on one particular toon. Could you get a completionist by having 12 toons go through their first life?
    What about the active past life feats?
    What if I make 3 toons of the same class level them all to 20 can I then receive 3 past life feats for that class since they stack?
    Do we really need an easier button for past life feats?

    This suggestion is rife with problems so I would have to decline but there may be a nugget of merit in there somewhere. Keep coming up with new ideas.
    Yeah I know, but, really, you're reincarnating - who's to say that one character ISNT the past life of another character? Just because it doesnt let you change your name (for technical reasons) doesnt mean that, in-game, you always have the same name when you die and get reborn as a completely new person

    I hadnt thought about circumventing the XP penalty, to be fair, but I dont think its necessarily a dealbreaker. You still have to go through multiple lives to earn 36 point builds, be able to open your own Bravery Bonuses, etc., so there is still lots of reward for TRing on non-throwaway characters.

    So you trade, more or less, double XP gain (essentially) minus Bravery Bonus XP, for the additional build points and ability to keep BtC items for twinking? I dont see thats too horrible, if you want to run 12 chars up to 20 like that, to still award them Completionist. Not even if you give them Veteran 7th starting off, even. I can see people keeping a Ranged character, who'd keep their awesome bows, and a THF char, who'd keep awesome twinking greatswords/greataxes, etc., rather than having to run with just lootgen, or re-earn gear on every life. First lives cant even count on crafting to make decent at-level bound gear, unless they spend the time to grind crafting. That all takes a lot of time/effort/resources that could be spent earning XP, so it all evens out.

    It also means current Completionists dont have to run two more lives whenever a new class comes out (new class, then redo their desired class). Its not that big an Easy Button, and it encourages people to try new classes and chars.
    Last edited by droid327; 01-23-2013 at 04:05 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    It most certainly does change the amount of time you need to play to get that TR build. and in a HUGE way.

    So basically I take a toon to 20. TR him and just let him sit (thus earning the PL flag).

    I then delete that toon, recreate as a first lifer and take him to 20.

    Basically you are asking for the XP for a second, third, fourth+ life to = that of a first life toon.

    There are 12 classes and I am going to want multiple PL for Wizard, Sorc, Cleric and Fvs for my end build./

    Thus I could create a "completionist" with 3 wizzard, 3 sorc, 3 cleric, 3 fvs past lives (20 total) for 1.9 million x 20 = 38 million XP.

    To do the same with the current system would cost
    1st life = 1.9 M
    2nd Life = 3.14 M
    3rd + life 4.38M ---> total somewhere around 83.8 million

    That is an ENORMOUS savings of time. In effect your change would let me build a full out completionist build nearly 3 times in the time it would currently take to build 1.

    And let's not even think about the leveling stones. Good lord, talk about kicking anyone who ever made or tried to make a completionist in in the junk hard, and twice.

    The only and I mean ONLY way this should ever be considered would be if TR lives cost the same XP as a first life. Otherwise all you are doing is short cutting the process.

    Sorry I like the idea of TR XP requirements dropping but firmly believe / feel that a TR past life should live with the toon that earned it.


  5. #5
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Its not that big an Easy Button, and it encourages people to try new classes and chars.
    I don't scream easy button a lot...but yeah, that's an easy button. Sorry, can't support this idea at all (even if it is the only way I'd ever have a completionist...heck, I'd have one now, I'd just have to run a druid first).

  6. #6
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Re-thinking the math... that build is about 83.8 million

    20 first lifers sure ... but what about veteran status.

    Start at level 7 free. level to 8 and then jump to 16 with a stone. With a solid group with you it would be easy to cap a toon in 2 days. Because there is no longer a week delay in waiting to TR you could conceivably (and not needing to be "elite either") get the above 20 life completionist done in about a month.

    Basically that 1.9 million becomes 770k per life you need to earn. And the minimum 20 weeks becomes as fast as you can run it. The total cost for all 20 lives = 15.4 M XP.

    You can run (assuming you are willing to spend on the stones) nearly 5.5 Completionist toons in the same XP.

    Sorry but if you can't see the easy button there, I don't know how it can be explained to you.
    Last edited by SiliconScout; 01-24-2013 at 11:04 AM.


  7. #7
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    Yep. Easy button.

    I think the XP for 3rd+ life just needs to be adjusted down. Putting the PL flag on every character on that server seems ... excessive.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    Re-thinking the math... that build is about 83.8 million

    20 first lifers sure ... but what about veteran status.

    Start at level 7 free. level to 8 and then jump to 16 with a stone. With a solid group with you it would be easy to cap a toon in 2 days. Because there is no longer a week delay in waiting to TR you could conceivably (and not needing to be "elite either") get the above 20 life completionist done in about a month.

    Basically that 1.9 million becomes 770k per life you need to earn. And the minimum 20 weeks becomes as fast as you can run it. The total cost for all 20 lives = 15.4 M XP.

    You can run (assuming you are willing to spend on the stones) nearly 5.5 Completionist toons in the same XP.

    Sorry but if you can't see the easy button there, I don't know how it can be explained to you.
    Heck, forget about deleting the toons, it's cheap to have 13 toon slot. Just run 13 7-20 and TR for 13 completionists.

    /not signed
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  9. #9
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    Ok, the OP is convinced The XP argument is valid, so how about this caveat to my suggestion?

    Upon char creation, theres a checkbox to flag a char as belonging to your "heritage" for that account. That char qualifies for accruing PLs for the account and benefits from existing PLs but not Vet status, and inherits a TR penalty equal to (existing other flagged chars on server) + (past lives earned on acct) past lives. So your first flagged char on a server is a fresh first life. If you create a second flagged char, they function as a 28 point second lifer. If you just take one char to TR then delete and recreate, theyre still second life for XP.

    An unflagged char works like now, vet status and first life XP, for crafting alts, test chars, etc, but theyre unable to TR.

    One more change id make is that, if you TR a char and you already have one other PL complete, they can jump from 28 to 36 points...but all fresh chars start at 28, or whatever the baseline for your account is.

    Were there any other problems besides the XP loophole?
    Last edited by droid327; 01-24-2013 at 12:09 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    *snip*
    Were there any other problems besides the XP loophole?
    Well, for your new idea there would be complex coding on a very complexly coded old game that seems to not like new code.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxhunter View Post
    Well, for your new idea there would be complex coding on a very complexly coded old game that seems to not like new code.
    Well if thats all thats left to gripe about I'll call it a success

    Without knowing much about the intricacies of the code, of course, I dont think its that big a deal...its mostly just a database question, tracking the proper flags. Its not adding any functionality that doesnt currently exist, or changing any behavior in-game, just changing how existing functionality is assigned.

    Since pretty much all of it is Store-purchaseable anyway, it'd essentially just be setting up new triggers for those Store flags, which is nothing they dont do for special promotional offers already anyway.

  12. #12
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Hmmmm... purchase enough character slots for each class, level them all up to 20, as a First Life, then trade a feat on all that you want Completionist on.

    /not signed.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    In fact, it might even make it harder since you'd conceivably be playing 4 first-lifers to 20, rather than a 2nd and then 3rd lifer, and you'd have to equip each one individually. But I'd gladly do that in order to have the flexibility to play multiple chars without "wasting" gameplay on chars that dont count towards each other.
    Right, it's much harder to earn 1.8 million xp on a 32 point first life build (I would assume getting the first one to 20 would get you the 1750 favor needed to make the rest 32 pointers) than 4.2(?)million with a 36 point build. I don't think so.

  14. #14
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    Hi,

    Not the best suggestion I've ever read on the forums, for the reasons mentioned by other posters above. Not least of which is the huge xp savings by avoiding TR levelling penalties.

    But, if someone at Turbine (or Santa) is feeling particularly generous, perhaps this same logic could be applied to gear too.

    When I finally get an ESOS on my main, I would like all of my other toons to get one too. That would allow me to mix up my gameplay a bit and have a number of characters active at once.

    And I would also like a pony.

    I'm sorry if this seems mean, but it seems like it had to be said. Keep on fighting the good fight against altoholism.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 01-24-2013 at 11:11 PM.
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  15. #15
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Umm no PL should only be for the character that earned what your asking for is way over powered.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  16. #16
    Community Member Zorth's Avatar
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    Default I think you are refering to another video game and trying to parallel it to this one

    What video game are relating to in this thread? You seem to know so much, but this game does not take well to it.

    Please explain more please.

    Your Idea must be from a game that failed as is no longer a game. I just get this feeling that you once played an online game that had this ideal once, but this game is no longer.

    Some sort of Jedi reflex is in me atm.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorth View Post
    What video game are relating to in this thread? You seem to know so much, but this game does not take well to it.

    Please explain more please.

    Your Idea must be from a game that failed as is no longer a game. I just get this feeling that you once played an online game that had this ideal once, but this game is no longer.

    Some sort of Jedi reflex is in me atm.
    No, I'm not talking about SWG if thats what you're implying :P I'm talking about LOTRO, which is built on DDO's engine, so its very applicable.

    There were many various suggestion posts there that devs came on and explained how the DB mechanics worked, broadly, with characters and items. Explained what kinds of things were possible and not possible, complicated or straightforward. Things like character status flags (QP access, etc.) were among the latter.

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