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  1. #21
    Community Member Jitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantumfx View Post
    i’d rather see +2% and +3% dodge added over a pure +5% power creep.
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  2. #22
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    perhaps an exceptional +5 PRR or something on those lines?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadereaper33 View Post
    perhaps an exceptional +5 PRR or something on those lines?
    like maybe sheltering or something?

  4. #24
    Community Member bhgiant's Avatar
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    I think it could use a little something but not dodge 5.

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  5. #25
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artistx View Post
    Is that so? I must have wandered somewhere Freedom of Speech doesn't exist...
    hmmm....
    Last edited by Bacab; 01-25-2013 at 03:39 AM.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    The white armor is about defense. Sheltering or +25% fort would make it good, and it would be usefull for anyone.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Sorry but no.

    Quote Originally Posted by artistx View Post
    With the current Armor Class System the additional AC that the the White dragonscale armor grants means very little..

    I'm suggesting "Dodge 5" which currently doesn't exist in the game making it as desired as the other armors since it'll actually make a tangible difference.

    The heavier armors might need a higher Max Dex Bonus though.
    /not signed

    While i'm usually pro things that makes player characters stronger, this is not the case. The White dragon armor already has a very high armor bonus that with stalwart or dos stance gets even higher because it's multiplicative.

    I already wear one of these armors on lamannia and i can assure you that the AC will go higher (i slotted +14 PRR into it). There's no need to make whitedragon armor the new epic sos of the armor category.

    Furthermore it gives THF characters some more defense with the shieldbonus: the distance in damage mitigation between shielded and non shielded characters is already enough high and this armor shorten it just a little. We cannot say the same though for the difference in DPS between THF and Sword and Board-THF that already became shorter in the last updates.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 01-25-2013 at 06:09 AM.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerkul View Post
    /not signed

    While i'm usually pro things that makes player characters stronger, this is not the case. The White dragon armor already has a very high armor bonus that with stalwart or dos stance gets even higher because it's multiplicative.

    I already wear one of these armors on lamannia and i can assure you that the AC will go higher (i slotted +14 PRR into it). There's no need to make whitedragon armor the new epic sos of the armor category.

    Furthermore it gives THF characters some more defense with the shieldbonus: the distance in damage mitigation between shielded and non shielded characters is already enough high and this armor shorten it just a little. We cannot say the same though for the difference in DPS between THF and Sword and Board-THF that already became shorter in the last updates.
    The bolded section is why something like Sheltering might be a better option. THF do not get THF defense.. and PRR is perhaps more important than AC in many cases.

  9. #29
    Community Member Ginarrbrik's Avatar
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    /not signed.

    Sheltering or exceptional fort make way more sense.
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  10. #30
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    This would practically turn Flawless White Dragonscale Robes into another Icy Raiment. I like the idea of Mobility as it doesn't overpower the robes like Dodge 5% would.
    I dont see a problem here.
    Icy rainments were level 14.

    An epic version of these is not a bad thing..
    viable variety in choice for armors makes sense to me.
    Dodge is hard capped at max dex bonus for heavier armor types and 25% for the dress version.

    DPS versions with black/Red
    Caster Versions with Green/Blue
    Defensive/evasive Version with White

    The Epic Dragon Armor needs to outshine trash drop random items .. or whats the point...
    Mobility is a low level craft or a feat or an augment.. not make or break epic worthy on the armor.

    5% dodge or Omniscience would be a worthy addition to the white armor.

    As to...
    Sheltering doesnt stack, so once you slot the 14PRR somewhere you have covered that.
    Shield Bonus doesnt stack, so if you are a S/B then the shield bonus is replaced when you shield up.


    Currently as the armor's sit I dont see any value to white armor to any class vs a general random drop piece of armor
    Last edited by JOTMON; 01-25-2013 at 01:31 PM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  11. #31
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I dont see a problem here.
    Icy rainments were level 14.
    I meant in the sense that they become the de facto standard robe/outfit/light armor everyone goes for. Icy Raiments for a long time were something practically every build with at least one Monk level used. I prefer encouraging players to go different routes rather than feeling like there is only one armor you should ever try to get.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Currently as the armor's sit I dont see any value to white armor to any class vs a general random drop piece of armor
    One of the key things about the White Armor as it currently is (without any proposed changes) is that if you put it on a pet for a Druid or Artificer, it covers a lot of bases and is bar-none the best pet armor in the game.

    It is also possibly the most solid druid armor, covering a meager shield bonus to allow a druid to slot an orb or healing stick in the off hand for animal form.

    Saying that it has no value is a bit of a harsh judgement.

    However, it's value is far less than it could be.. that is absolutely true.

    EDIT: Also, the interesting thing is, you can actually slot in Natural Armor 7, PR 14, or anything else since it does have a blue slot. Personally, I was wanting to slot the PR on my druid who is currently running around in the White armor..but I went with Natural Armor 7 instead. I don't know that having an 88 AC vs having a 40ish PRR is going to be that big of a difference.. neither are particularly significant, but most sources of sheltering that I'm familiar with would probably NOT be coupled with the White armor since it seems to be more for THF, TWF, or casters of various types using staves rather than ...other stuff..
    Last edited by 4tonmantis; 01-25-2013 at 04:16 PM.

  13. #33
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    I meant in the sense that they become the de facto standard robe/outfit/light armor everyone goes for. Icy Raiments for a long time were something practically every build with at least one Monk level used. I prefer encouraging players to go different routes rather than feeling like there is only one armor you should ever try to get.

    The way I see it.... the lack of choices is what caused the Pidgeon-holing, nothing else gave what you could get from Icy's until the Cannith challenge Bracers came along. If you wanted a good AC dodge PJ build that was the endgame gear, anything else was a placeholder until you got Icy's.
    All the rules have changed with the changes in to hits, glancing blows and increased mob damage.. now its about PRR+dodge+Blurr+Ghostly over and above AC.

    There are more choices now with the Spidersilk caprisons, random drop robes with things like omniscience..etc.., and now even the random drops will have a chance of augment slots.

    When I look at the dragon Armors for my endgame melee build fighters, Tanks, rogues, rangers, monks, monk splash builds... White is not even on the radar. I see Black, Black, Black, old red, the new cormyrian red, black, black, black, spiderqueen, random drop planeforged....

    There is nothing in the white armor that gives me that... oohh thats nice... i can make that work...
    All I see when I look at the white armor is ... meh... waste of scales and time...

    Lots of convesation in the channels of the new gear and how to fit this with that.. green vs blue, black and reds... there is no supportive conversations on whites.

    This will become apparent when we see trades in live: 5 white scales for 1 black or 1 blue scale.. anyone...???.. followed by the uncomfortable silence or the mocking... I'll give you a LDS to stop advertising that trade...
    Last edited by JOTMON; 01-25-2013 at 05:17 PM.
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    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  14. #34
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4tonmantis View Post
    One of the key things about the White Armor as it currently is (without any proposed changes) is that if you put it on a pet for a Druid or Artificer, it covers a lot of bases and is bar-none the best pet armor in the game.

    It is also possibly the most solid druid armor, covering a meager shield bonus to allow a druid to slot an orb or healing stick in the off hand for animal form.

    Saying that it has no value is a bit of a harsh judgement.

    However, it's value is far less than it could be.. that is absolutely true.

    EDIT: Also, the interesting thing is, you can actually slot in Natural Armor 7, PR 14, or anything else since it does have a blue slot. Personally, I was wanting to slot the PR on my druid who is currently running around in the White armor..but I went with Natural Armor 7 instead. I don't know that having an 88 AC vs having a 40ish PRR is going to be that big of a difference.. neither are particularly significant, but most sources of sheltering that I'm familiar with would probably NOT be coupled with the White armor since it seems to be more for THF, TWF, or casters of various types using staves rather than ...other stuff..

    My intention is not to be harsh but to shine a bright light on a inferior product.


    Pet armor..sort of.. pets dont need a AC bonus...and the black/red are still superior in my view.
    For my pet I would be looking at the... Epic Bladesmark Docent(Update 11) or Leaves of the forest
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Blademark%27s_Docent
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Leaves_of_the_Forest

    The PRR you can still slot on any blue/green slot so that is not armor specific.

    Druid?

    Epic Dragonscale is going to be grindy and is the current endgame gear, you are saying you are actively looking at the current epic white armor as your endgame armor?

    Leaves of the Forest and Black Dragon I can see.. I can even see Caster Blue/Green dragon armor.

    So why the white.. Curious as to what in the white armor is appealing to your druid build...Are you building for mediocre AC and PRR.

    What benefit are you getting from the white that would be worth sacraficing potential benefits from the other armors.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 01-25-2013 at 05:20 PM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
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    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4tonmantis View Post
    like maybe sheltering or something?
    I was thinking more exceptional PRR so that it would stack with sheltering, as there are other sources of sheltering that are fairly readily available for people willing to grind for it. An exceptional bonus is something that would be useful to everyone, including the people that already have a bear cloak or use bastion. Putting sheltering on it is just another bonus that won't help people who really care about defense, since it also has a shield bonus on it.

  16. #36
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Personally, I favor +25% exceptional fort on the base version, with +50% on the fully upgraded version.

    For my monk, rogue, or artificer, or TWF pally, the shield bonus would be nice, but 3 of those 4 would prefer the black dragon armor in most situations. It would certainly be the first one I crafted for them, with white as a distant second because currently it looks like thos scales will be easier to come by, as fewer people will be looking for them and the price will be considerably lower.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    My intention is not to be harsh but to shine a bright light on a inferior product.


    Pet armor..sort of.. pets dont need a AC bonus...and the black/red are still superior in my view.
    For my pet I would be looking at the... Epic Bladesmark Docent(Update 11) or Leaves of the forest
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Blademark%27s_Docent
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Leaves_of_the_Forest

    The PRR you can still slot on any blue/green slot so that is not armor specific.

    Druid?

    Epic Dragonscale is going to be grindy and is the current endgame gear, you are saying you are actively looking at the current epic white armor as your endgame armor?

    Leaves of the Forest and Black Dragon I can see.. I can even see Caster Blue/Green dragon armor.

    So why the white.. Curious as to what in the white armor is appealing to your druid build...Are you building for mediocre AC and PRR.

    What benefit are you getting from the white that would be worth sacraficing potential benefits from the other armors.
    I'm not trying to argue... or even say it's the best there is. However, I do not share your assessment of the difficulty of obtaining these. I found TOR to be pretty easy and the raid as well. Each of my guys that ran it pulled a commendation of heroism. I don't know if I just got really lucky or what.. but I don't see it being anywhere near the trouble of the others. To me it's not endgame, it's that armor you spend a little time on the side getting so you have something decent to grind for a red or green suit.

    As to the reason behind white on the druid.. your remark was pretty snarky and insulting, but I"ll dignify it with a response anyway. I don't try to play Druid as a gimped cleric, I play as a animal form DPS that is self healing. The saves are not that great and like I said, if you can put an orb in your off hand, it would help.

    In regards to the pet, it has both a slot (blue no less) and Heavy Fort as well as giving your pet an actual shield bonus and other perks. Leaves of the forest is good, but I can slot an actual stat in the white if I so choose. The 50% exceptional fort does look nice but my fully leveled wolf has something like 88AC before any kind of buffs. That's not amazing necessarily, but I disagree with the assessment that AC is meaningless. I do understand that fort, PRR, and Dodge are also extremely important and usually easier to get, but we really don't need to start yet another debate on the matter here.

    I think I've made my point as far as I am willing to, if you choose to reject it, then that is of course your prerogative but your overall tone really leaves me feeling like I won't be attempting to engage you in meaningful conversation again in the future.

  18. #38
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Add superior mobility (+4 dodge and max dex bonus) if a straight up dodge bonus won't mesh well with the plate.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    If you wanted a good AC dodge PJ build that was the endgame gear, anything else was a placeholder until you got Icy's.
    I don't mind them upgrading it to make it better so long as they don't overdo it. What I don't want to see is it becoming a matter of everyone having to have this specific piece of gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Lots of convesation in the channels of the new gear and how to fit this with that.. green vs blue, black and reds... there is no supportive conversations on whites.
    My Monk will most likely end up getting one. If they're going to be easily obtainable, so much the better. Though I want it more for appearance than anything else.
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  20. #40
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4tonmantis View Post
    I'm not trying to argue... or even say it's the best there is. However, I do not share your assessment of the difficulty of obtaining these. I found TOR to be pretty easy and the raid as well. Each of my guys that ran it pulled a commendation of heroism. I don't know if I just got really lucky or what.. but I don't see it being anywhere near the trouble of the others. To me it's not endgame, it's that armor you spend a little time on the side getting so you have something decent to grind for a red or green suit.

    As to the reason behind white on the druid.. your remark was pretty snarky and insulting, but I"ll dignify it with a response anyway. I don't try to play Druid as a gimped cleric, I play as a animal form DPS that is self healing. The saves are not that great and like I said, if you can put an orb in your off hand, it would help.

    In regards to the pet, it has both a slot (blue no less) and Heavy Fort as well as giving your pet an actual shield bonus and other perks. Leaves of the forest is good, but I can slot an actual stat in the white if I so choose. The 50% exceptional fort does look nice but my fully leveled wolf has something like 88AC before any kind of buffs. That's not amazing necessarily, but I disagree with the assessment that AC is meaningless. I do understand that fort, PRR, and Dodge are also extremely important and usually easier to get, but we really don't need to start yet another debate on the matter here.

    I think I've made my point as far as I am willing to, if you choose to reject it, then that is of course your prerogative but your overall tone really leaves me feeling like I won't be attempting to engage you in meaningful conversation again in the future.
    I appoligize if I came across as snarky that is not my intent.

    Currently on lamaland the GH drops are escalated, and will probably remain that way for a couple of weeks then the rate will drop to the levels of red and greens, as all things coming live tend to do.

    There are other items with 2 and some with 3 slots coming from low level quests as shown in feathers augment slot revamp, so I dont see slottability as the draw.

    I wasnt trivializing ac.. as any ac/prr is better than no ac/prr, my point is that the white is weak on the desirability and when compared to the other armors is white the one you would want to finish with.

    Now I may be off the mark as I have seen another post here indicating they would go with white for their monk, so i must be missing something since I dont see white as being desirable.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 12/12), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-EC 32/36), Whatthetruck(Raid farmer-2nd life).. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

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