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  1. #1
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    Default A Question About Spell Crit and Spell Power

    So, I've been playing around with the idea of making a Light Based nuker for a long while now, but I ran into a conundrum. Since I'll be using an off-hand item, there's only one main-hand item in the game that gives Superior Radiance Lore, and that's an Alchemical Crafted Weapon.

    With the new content, there's the Forgotten Light mace, which gives a hefty +141 Spell Power total to Radiance, where a Superior Radiance Lore Alchemical Item only gives 108. This forced me to ask myself an important question:

    Is 33 Spell Power worth 3% Crit Chance?

    I assumed the answer was no, but it intrigued me enough to work the numbers out, just to be sure. What I found surprised me.

    Whether at a very high (and very unreasonably high) Spell Power of 556 or at a much more meager 321, 33 Spell Power beat out 3% crit at every turn.

    Is my math correct? Is the 3% crit difference between Major and Superior Lore worth less than 30 Spell Power?

    Is it even worth it to make build sacrifices to fit crit into a build?



    Gear Setup 1:
    21 Implement, 120 Spell Power, 160 Destiny, 80 Enhancements, 175 Metamagic = 556 Spellpower
    9% Crit Enhancements, +.75 Crit Enhancements, 9% Crit Item, +.50 Crit Item = 18% Crit with 2.75x Multiplier

    vs

    Gear Setup 2:
    18 Implement, 90 Spell Power, 160 Destiny, 80 Enhancements, 175 Metamagic = 523 Spellpower
    9% Crit Enhancements, +.75 Crit Enhancements, 12% Crit Item, +.50 Crit Item = 21% Crit with 2.75x Multiplier



    Assume a 100 Damage Spell:

    Gear Setup 1:
    656 Base Spell Damage
    1804 Spell Crit at 18%
    862.6400 Average Damage per Spell

    Gear Setup 2:
    623 Base Spell Damage
    1713.25 Spell Crit at 21%
    851.9525 Average Damage per Spell

    Gear Setup 1 (No Epic Destiny Bonus):
    496 Base Spell Damage
    1364 Spell Crit at 18%
    652.2400 Average Damage per Spell

    Gear Setup 2 (No Epic Destiny Bonus):
    463 Base Spell Damage
    1273.25 Spell Crit at 21%
    633.1525 Average Damage per Spell

    Gear Setup 1 (No Destiny/No Metamagic)
    321 Base Spell Damage
    882.75 Spell Crit at 18%
    422.1150 Average Damage per Spell

    Gear Setup 2 (No Destiny/No Metamagic)
    288 Base Spell Damage
    792.00 Spell Crit at 21%
    393.8400 Average Damage per Spell

  2. #2
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    You can have superior lore on lootgen shield.

    I stayed at cap and maxed destinies and whatnot on fvs to see what the light hype is about, but I was underwhelmed to be honest. Maxed smiting and crit lines, all metas, max exalted and gear and nuking was half of the wizzy at best, don't have capped sorc but I would say 1/3 or less of a sorcerer.
    In my opinion, you need something else ( DC casting ) too, light doesn't cut it alone. 1k searing light crits and 2.5 DP crits on shadows are cool, but it's so slow and boring.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    You can have superior lore on lootgen shield.

    I stayed at cap and maxed destinies and whatnot on fvs to see what the light hype is about, but I was underwhelmed to be honest. Maxed smiting and crit lines, all metas, max exalted and gear and nuking was half of the wizzy at best, don't have capped sorc but I would say 1/3 or less of a sorcerer.
    In my opinion, you need something else ( DC casting ) too, light doesn't cut it alone. 1k searing light crits and 2.5 DP crits on shadows are cool, but it's so slow and boring.
    The reason I have to use a main hand item is that I'm going to have a Tira's Splendor Runearm in my offhand. My build is 13 Favored Soul / 7 Artificer / 5 Exalted Angel.

    I'll have a caster level of 18 and with any luck, I'll be nuking with my Runearm for considerable damage.

    I won't have Mass Heal, but I'll have Mass Cure Moderate, Curative Admixture AoEs, Renew, Metamorphic Cocoon, and the ability to drop pretty considerable damage on one target at a time.

    I should have no difficulty offhealing raid or mainhealing smaller groups, since most of my spells will either be at full power or mostly full power.

    I'm just trying to find out of my conclusions about a 3% change in crit chance being less powerful than 30 Spell Power are correct. If so, critical casts would seem to be a whole lot less important than base spell power.

  4. #4
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Lotsa math done in a spreadsheet and it seems that at crit multipliers of 2.75 the turnover point starts at 500 spell power where 3 points of crit % overpowers 30 more SP. And this turnover starts at 1% crit chance - at 18% it is at 700 spell power.

    If your crit multiplier is lower than 2.75 it takes even more spell power to roll over.

    The amount of base damage barely modifies the result (ie. 200 base damage may turnover to favor crits at 500 spell power but 10 base damage turns over at 510)

    So I conclude that in most reasonable situations more spell power > more crits.

    I will throw the additional caveat that crits more ofter 'waste' damage...ie. 2750damage to a 1000 HP mob wastes 1750damage where as a non crit of the same spell would just kill the mob. Obviously in eH and eE content this is less of a concern but it does come into play more for crits than regular spells. This lends itself even more to conclude that the goal should be improving SP first and Arcane Lore second.
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  5. #5
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    Lotsa math done in a spreadsheet and it seems that at crit multipliers of 2.75 the turnover point starts at 500 spell power where 3 points of crit % overpowers 30 more SP. And this turnover starts at 1% crit chance - at 18% it is at 700 spell power.

    If your crit multiplier is lower than 2.75 it takes even more spell power to roll over.

    The amount of base damage barely modifies the result (ie. 200 base damage may turnover to favor crits at 500 spell power but 10 base damage turns over at 510)

    So I conclude that in most reasonable situations more spell power > more crits.

    I will throw the additional caveat that crits more ofter 'waste' damage...ie. 2750damage to a 1000 HP mob wastes 1750damage where as a non crit of the same spell would just kill the mob. Obviously in eH and eE content this is less of a concern but it does come into play more for crits than regular spells. This lends itself even more to conclude that the goal should be improving SP first and Arcane Lore second.
    I'll especially emphasize this for healing.

    If you are going to heal someone, you need that healing to be appropriate in the 85%+ of the time when your healing spell doesn't have a critical effect. That means you'll want to fill or mostly-fill the target's red bar without crits and any spell crit will just make pretty numbers that don't have any useful additional effect.

    Spell crits are still effective for the Cleric's healing Aura-of-Urine since that is a relatively minor constant stream of HP that will see a benefit from critical effects.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    So I conclude that in most reasonable situations more spell power > more crits.
    I have found the same thing to be true, using much the same math with a similar scenario. I had to chuckle when I saw this thread, because I was asking myself the same question just a couple of days ago and had to do all of the calcs myself to prove the above quoted statement as true.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnsharDarkangel View Post
    175 Metamagic
    This confuses me. My understanding is that Maximize is 150 spell power and empower is 75.

  8. #8
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    This confuses me. My understanding is that Maximize is 150 spell power and empower is 75.
    My metamagic goes to eleven.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    This confuses me. My understanding is that Maximize is 150 spell power and empower is 75.
    Hmm. Don't know how I missed that. It must have been my old understanding of Maximize doubling spell damage. Nice catch!

  10. #10
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    One alternative you could try is arcane lore, which will affect your light spells. The madness bracers from HoX are good for this.

    Aside from that, I've seen radiance lore on armor and shields (though your off-hand is occupied).
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandypaws View Post
    One alternative you could try is arcane lore, which will affect your light spells. The madness bracers from HoX are good for this.

    Aside from that, I've seen radiance lore on armor and shields (though your off-hand is occupied).
    What I'll do is use the Shadowmail armor for Greater Arcane Lore (Blue Dragon Plate till then), and then use Rakhir's Sash and Rakhir's Ring's set bonus to give me the equivalent of Major Arcane Lore (9% with .50 Multiplier). The Shadowmail armor can also have Impulse on it, which won't hurt for Blade Barrier, when I need to use it.

    That'll let me use Signet of the Shining Sun for my second ring slot, giving me Superior Healing Lore.

    Forgotten Light will be Mainhand, for 120 Light/Healing Spell Power and 21 Implement Spell Power.

    Tira's Splendor for the Offhand, which will provide me a secondary light nuke (it'll be interesting to see the final damage on this, esp with the Exalted Angel destiny).

    Here's what I'm thinking so far:

    Helm Epic Helm of Frost - Greater Cold Resist, Greater Abishai, Charisma +7, Greater False Life
    Goggles Concordant Opposition Greensteel Goggles, +10hp, +1 Con Skills, +50sp, +2 Int Skills, +100sp, +3 Cha Skills, Conc Opp
    Necklace Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II - Greater Spell Penetration VIII, Wizardry VI, Transform Kinetic Energy, Insightful Con +2
    Chest Shadowmail - +7 Medium Armor, Greater Twilight, Impulse +120, Wizardry X, Greater Arcane Lore
    Cloak Epic Envenomed Cloak - Resistance +5, Greater Poison Guard, Constitution +7, Greater Abishai, Heavy Fortification
    Bracers Bracers of Twisting Shade - Disable Device +20, Search +20, Exceptional Seeker +5, Blurry, Resistance +7
    Gloves Epic Charged Gauntlets - Greater Shocking Blow, Greater Abishai, Strength +6, Greater Lightning Resist, Protection +4
    Boots Treads of Falling Shadow - Striding 30%, Ghostly, Dexterity +8, Insightful Dex +3
    Belt Rakhir's Sash - Archmagi, Superior Efficacy VIII
    Ring 1 Rakhir's Ring - Intelligence + 6, Exceptional Int +1, Insightful Int +2
    Ring 2 Signet of the Shining Sun - Charisma +7, Insightful Wisdom +2, Superior Healing Lore

    Main Hand Forgotten Light - +7, 21 Implement Bonus, 120 Light/Alignment Spell Power, 120 Healing Spell Power, Supreme Good
    Off Hand Tira's Splendor Runearm - 20% Healing Amp, Deathblock
    Trinket Planar Focus of Erudition - Insightful Cha +3

    Final Mods:
    Str +9 (Profane)
    Dex +11
    Con +9
    Int +9
    Wis +8
    Cha +10

    Heavy Fortification
    Protection +4
    Natural Armor +3
    Resistance +7
    141 Radiance/Healing/Impulse Spell Power
    Major Arcane Lore (Greater Arcane Lore + Archmage Bonus)
    Superior Healing Lore
    Blurry
    Ghostly
    +150/300sp (Stacking)
    +250/500sp (Shadowmail)
    +22 Disable/Search
    +3 Evocation Caster Levels
    20% Healing Amp
    Deathblock

  12. #12

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    Blue dragonscale is an alternative for major arcane lore, freeing up a belt and ring. Not sure it's better than what you have, though.

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