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Thread: BtC - BtA!

  1. #1
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Default BtC - BtA!

    Can we please have some way {no matter how rare} to turn BtCharacter items into BtAccount!

    I decided yesterday to delete one of my 10 characters on Sarlona {have not done so yet as Shared Bank is full and so are 3 of his inventory bags still!}
    I noticed that he has TWO Cloaks of Night {8 and 12} - He also has an Icy Bursted Falchion and a few other BtC items!

    As things stand I'm going to have to accept the loss on deletion as I have no intention of continuing to play this character.

    It would be nice however if you {devs} could figure out some way to put into game a mechanic for transferring BtC to BtA.
    Or even to BtA and BtC on Equip!
    So that we can move gear to characters where that gear may actually see use.


    The character btw is Mylord Cyan Pelarin {MyDDO is showing someone called Mylord Bones from 2008-9 unfortunately}.
    9 Wizard / 2 Fighter {Elf Falchion user}

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    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    No. You want an item on a new character, earn it on the new character.

    Otherwise you could just level up to level cap in an easy soloable build and grind raids and other items, send them over to another character that is fully twinked with named and BTC items.

    It would also lead to more loot drama within raids.
    Last edited by Musouka; 01-23-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musouka View Post
    No. You want an item on a new character, earn it on the new character.

    Otherwise you could just level up to level 20 and grind raids and other items, delete the character, and start over with a new character that is fully twinked with named and BTC items.
    Yeah right!

    I'm really going to go through the hassle of levelling up to cap, Grinding Raids and so forth JUST to delete the character and make another one that ALSO has to level up and grind said Raids!

    I'm ALSO specifically talking here about items from EVENTS {yes it would be nice if all BtC items were looked at BUT the main thrust of my post is about EVENTS!}.

    I fully intended to play that character at the time {in fact the only time I've ever considered deleting him is yesterday!}.

    I also bracketed in the first line of the OP the phrase {no matter how rare}!
    I don't mind if it's a rare drop {in the vein of Yellow Dopants etc.} - I just feel that it should be possible!

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    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    I thought about what I posted, and edited much sooner than you posted. :P

    The other point is that you could just level up to 20 and TR the character.

    Events will return, and you can get a new item then.
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    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    There are so many other ways around your issue.

    "I want to delete this character but keep the stuff."

    Why delete the character?
    Out of slots? 600 tp buys another slot.
    Don't like the build? There are hearts to reincarnate. Lessers or Trues.

    Why keep the stuff?
    The stuff is too good to delete? LR/TR into a character that you intend to play that will use the stuff.

  6. #6

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    I assume you want to delete the character to make room for a different character you do want to play (otherwise why delete him at all?). Consider TRing him instead into the type of character you want instead. That way you don't lose the BTC loot you earned and may still be able to make use of it.
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    Community Member Fomori's Avatar
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    While there are some items that I think could be changed, I disagree with a blanket way to make any item from BtC -> BtA.

    There was a time when it was only BtC or unbound. They added BtA to allow for some items, mostly older chain rewards, to be given freely amongst alts. This allowed decent items to be shared as new characters were created or given to a TR during a certain level range. That I was fine with.

    However most of the time the BtC clause allows a more powerful effect to be given on an item because it will not increase power creep on other characters. Thus it serves as a purpose of some balance. Sure, the game is not always balanced but that is no excuse to be used to totally toss it out the window on everything else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mournbladereigns View Post
    Actually, if this Nerf's one of Shade's barb's I doubly support this!

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    Things are BTC for a deliberate reason...they want you to earn it using the char you want to play. Otherwise, why would you play any builds that are underpowered? Youd just take an easy FOTM build, use that to grind all your gear, then get your alts rushed to 20.

    It devalues pre-endgame, and it encourages players to not L2P before theyre decked out in raid gear.

    As for events, same logic...event gear is your reward for playing a char long enough to have done the events. You dont get to roll a new char and enjoy a full years worth of festival gear etc. Stick with one toon and invest in it.

  9. #9
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley_Nicholas View Post
    I assume you want to delete the character to make room for a different character you do want to play (otherwise why delete him at all?). Consider TRing him instead into the type of character you want instead. That way you don't lose the BTC loot you earned and may still be able to make use of it.
    I have 24 characters on Cannith, 10 on Sarlona, 3 on Khyber, 2 on Thelanis, 1 on Argo, 1 on Ghallanda and 1 on Wayfinder!

    I did have many more!

    And I've been concentrating on consolidating the characters I'm actually going to play to Cannith and Sarlona!
    I may have to stay on Khyber too.

    Now Cannith IS Full! {For me!}.
    I have plenty of Space {clearly} on Sarlona {another 14 slots} BUT the issue is that I simply don't have the time to play any more characters!
    The next transfer is going to be from Argo to Sarlona - The character is an Elf Fighter atm {1st life} and I realised that for what I was planning {Elf Bladesinger basically} I may as well take him through the requisite past lives rather than having a 1st life {gimped} Battlemage!

    Now it may be that I don't even feel the loss of those two Cloaks of Night, The Icy Bursted Falchion and whatever other BtC items I end up deleting!
    My last transfer was a TR {I forgot about the TR Cache not transferring and lost everything above Lvl 7} - A much bigger loss for that character I think you'll agree BUT I got over it.

    However: BtC to BtA has come up on these forums many times now - I used a specific example that hurts me - Others have their own issues with BtC loot!
    I know about Raid Loot BUT I didn't mention Raid loot in my OP - Getting to that; I feel that if this item I'm asking for is rare enough {Purified Eberron Shards could even be given an actual use for non-crafters here} it wouldn't cause major issues.
    It's far more likely for people to use it to transfer Event items than Raid Loot I would have said {as Events aren't available most of the time to get those items}.

    I'd also prefer to NOT have to run Mabar EVER again - Don't even ask me how I feel about Risia!
    I know I'm going to have to grind Mabar {and most definitely the Cove} every time they come out for the foreseeable future - What I'm asking for isn't going to change this considering how many characters I have to gear up.
    BUT any alleviation of this grind will be gladly appreciated!

    Back to Raid Loot - If someone has Earned an E-SoS {yes let's use the be-all and end all of weapons as an example} but has decided to TR said character {maybe even go completionist} and won't be using said sword for quite some time {if ever again} - Is it really a bad thing for said player to be able to transfer that sword to another character in HIS/HER stable who can actually make use of it?

    P.S. I don't have E-SoS - The only proper {non-event} Epic item I've made so far is the Epic Utility Vest for my Trapper!
    My other Rogues and Artis are gradually being given the scrolls, seals, shards and of course the base item as I find them.
    I wouldn't even countenance transferring that item off the character it is on!

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    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Ok, so you use a specific situation that affects you and want it changed basically just for your personal gain in it. Your preference of not running mabar ever again is your own issue. However, if you want a new cloak, then you must.

    To answer your question, yes it is a bad thing. The other character didn't earn it. It's no one's fault but your own to TR into something that cannot use it.
    Last edited by Musouka; 01-23-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Things are BTC for a deliberate reason...they want you to earn it using the char you want to play. Otherwise, why would you play any builds that are underpowered? Youd just take an easy FOTM build, use that to grind all your gear, then get your alts rushed to 20.

    It devalues pre-endgame, and it encourages players to not L2P before theyre decked out in raid gear.

    As for events, same logic...event gear is your reward for playing a char long enough to have done the events. You dont get to roll a new char and enjoy a full years worth of festival gear etc. Stick with one toon and invest in it.
    Yeah so these people who haven't "learned to play" are fully capable of taking a "Flavour of the Month" build to cap and grinding out all the gear eh?

    Just because certain people can do this doesn't mean the rest of us can't have nice things!

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    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Yeah so these people who haven't "learned to play" are fully capable of taking a "Flavour of the Month" build to cap and grinding out all the gear eh?

    Just because certain people can do this doesn't mean the rest of us can't have nice things!
    Just because certain people want BtC to BtA ability, doesn't mean the rest of us should agree.
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    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    What this really comes down to is: How many Turbine points are you willing to pay for it?
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musouka View Post
    Ok, so you use a specific situation that affects you and want it changed basically just for your personal gain in it.

    To answer your question, yes it is a bad thing. The other character didn't earn it. It's no one's fault but your own to TR into something that cannot use it.
    Lovely!

    I specifically mentioned that my example was NOT the biggest issue around BtC!
    I said that other people had reasons {certainly covered on these forums} for disliking the BtC mechanic!
    I didn't ask that BtC be removed in it's entirety {in fact at all} as others have done on more than one occasion right here on these forums!

    All I asked was for the devs to put into the game a way to turn BtC loot into BtA/BtC on Equip!

    I don't go in for all-in suggestions - I'm not trying to break the game here!

    And as for the character not earning - The PLAYER did!
    We have the ability to play multiple characters - I do so - In fact I specifically play ALL my characters {which means that none of them are Uber}.

    I realised long ago now that I couldn't keep going with the amount of characters I had {on EVERY server} - As such I'm consolidating them and some have to make way.

    Just because I earned something on one character should NOT make it Have to be deleted along with that character!
    I also specified that I fully realised any such item would have to be rare - Therefore I accept that I would most likely only be able to transfer ONE piece of BtC loot off of whatever character I had decided to delete {another nail in the coffin of those who suggest this could be an easy way to twink new toons!}.

    I'm not even sure what that ONE item would be on the specific character I mentioned {possible the Lvl 12 Cloak of Night - which he can't even use himself yet as he's only Lvl 11}.

    Call it a Heirloom if you like - Make it so that ONLY ONE item can ever be transferred in this way per character {I know this is possible - They did it with XP Stones after all}.
    I'm NOT asking for the Moon here!

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    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I'm NOT asking for the Moon here!
    To me, you are. I'm still standing at a /not signed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Yeah so these people who haven't "learned to play" are fully capable of taking a "Flavour of the Month" build to cap and grinding out all the gear eh?

    Just because certain people can do this doesn't mean the rest of us can't have nice things!
    Yes, it absolutely does. And in other games, thats exactly what happens. Some builds are much easier to play than others, and what you get is an absolute deluge of identical cookiecutter endgame chars, usually ones that are extremely survivable but dont take much skill beyond "spam melee attacks"...easy, non-gear-dependent, but low-upside builds. They bug you to join your group, contribute very little other than buttonmashing, and are only interested in getting their rewards and scramming because they're not actually playing the char they want, they're just "grinding" for it.

    Then, you get players who have finished the "grind", powerleveled themselves (usually with guildies who have the same philosophy) to 20, geared out and everything, but have actually played their chars so little that they dont know how to take advantage of the awesome gear they've acquired. Then they usually get you wiped, then A) complain that content is imbalanced, B) complain that everyone else in the group isnt doing enough, and then C) either start the whole process over with another build in mind, or just ragequit the game.

    And, unfortunately, we CANT have nice things when a small group of people learn to abuse it. Thats basically the reason behind 99% of nerfs in every online game ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I didn't ask that BtC be removed in it's entirety {in fact at all} as others have done on more than one occasion right here on these forums!

    All I asked was for the devs to put into the game a way to turn BtC loot into BtA/BtC on Equip!
    Same diff...and your "one item per char" policy would kinda turn this into a "specifically fix my problem" suggestion. The only reason you'd want to transfer one BtC item is because you're wiping one toon to start another, and thats basically what the whole TR mechanism is for. TR serves the role that Heirloom-type systems do in other games.

    Plus, there are lots of rewards that are BtC and given out on a per-char basis. Things like anniversary rewards, etc. The one-per-char mechanism would only encourage people to make a bunch of throwaway chars so they could collect extra rewards for their mains, whenever such rewards were handed around.

  17. #17
    Community Member Cyiwin's Avatar
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    BTC encouages staying with the same character. Playing the same character encourages TRing. Make it all BTA, seems like Turbine could make money off of the altoholtics too.

    The arguement that the "character" has to earn it sounds a little too RP for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyiwin View Post
    The arguement that the "character" has to earn it sounds a little too RP for me.
    Its not a RP argument, just phrased so it sounds like one...what it means is that you should have to play the character thats getting the rewards - even if another character of yours is better equipped, better suited for a given quest, way overlevel for the quest, etc.

    Naturally, its much easier to earn rewards with a character who himself is fully decked out with uber endgame gear. It makes it more trivial to use your uber char to, essentially, twink other endgame chars, rather than having to earn the rewards on the character himself - even if that's really tough, at first.

    Its a balance issue, because if there was no BtC, only BtA, then Turbine has to assume that, and balance for, all new content being done by fully equipped endgame characters. If there's BtC, then Turbine can balance for new content not, essentially, requiring its own rewards to be balanced.

    Ie, imagine how much more trivial Greensteel crafting would have been, when it was released, if every character started out with a full set of Greensteel gear. Even now, why would you even take your squishy L16 Bard, for example, to grind out GS mats and do the crafting, if you could just take your uber tanky L25 Barb to do it all for him, and your Bard never has to set foot in the Vale?

  19. #19
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    While you're particular case isn't something I'd support since I've deleted character and had to lose btc items and really that is no big deal I would support btc items being converted to bta on tring as then you could pass them over to a character that needs them more and avoid having several copies of btc items that you may or may never use again spread throughout your characters. Once they have been passed and equipped they become btc again until that character trs.
    Last edited by Orratti; 01-23-2013 at 04:22 PM.

  20. #20
    Founder Chaos000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    What this really comes down to is: How many Turbine points are you willing to pay for it?
    775-950 turbine points to convert a BtC item to BtA, BtC on Equip... sounds about right. I'd pay it.

    Back when every other repair attempt ended in permanent damage I bound 8 planar girds on one character that I've since retired. Would love to get those little badboys on my artificer

    C'mon turbine it's free money there!
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