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Thread: BtC - BtA!

  1. #21
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos000 View Post
    C'mon turbine it's free money there!
    No it isn't. They'd have to invest some developer's time into making such an item, then have the store guys work on it. There is quite a bit of work that would actually go into it. It's not free money.

    Still /not signed.
    Sarkiki - Orexis - Pallikaria - Epithymia - Musouka - Empnefsi | Cannith Server

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyiwin View Post
    BTC encouages staying with the same character. Playing the same character encourages TRing.
    From what I can tell, the opposite is more generally true, for both statements.
    Brenna / Tzanna, The Dancing Rogues of Argonnessen
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musouka View Post
    No it isn't. They'd have to invest some developer's time into making such an item, then have the store guys work on it. There is quite a bit of work that would actually go into it. It's not free money.
    Yeah true. If you can bind an item (stone of change + dragonshards) to your character, it would be nice to have a way to reverse the process even if it took turbine points to do it.
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  4. #24
    Community Member BTIGER's Avatar
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    I'd prefer a non-turbine point use of the stone of change to un-bind items myself AND with ingredients NOT found from raids. They do not deserve preferential treatment.

  5. #25
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos000 View Post
    Yeah true. If you can bind an item (stone of change + dragonshards) to your character, it would be nice to have a way to reverse the process even if it took turbine points to do it.
    I can agree to that, but only for items that you bind using the stone of change.
    Sarkiki - Orexis - Pallikaria - Epithymia - Musouka - Empnefsi | Cannith Server

  6. #26
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    Hi,

    Q: Why can't I just have what I want? I'm even prepared to pay for it!
    A: Because there may be bad consequences for other people and the game itself.

    OP, your request may seem innocuous to you, but it could ultimately affect often raids are run and how loot is shared in them.

    I am very glad that we aren't yet at the point where someone with money demands something on the forums and Turbine employees rush to accommodate their every wish. Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full sir!

    Why would anyone ever put a good item of raid loot up for roll or pass it to someone they didn't like when there is a mechanism for unbinding it so another one of your characters can use it? Hey, my fighter can't use this torc, but I might make a favoured soul who can. Yoink!

    Sure, it won't mean that everyone on every server will become completely self centred all at once, but there will be an effect on the average PUG raid.

    And it really doesn't matter what mechanism is invented to change BTC to BTA items, if a process is available, it will work to support that kind of selfishness rather than sharing.

    It would also work to the considerable disadvantage of new players, who don't have guild mates or friends in every raid looking out for them.

    As for your icy bursted falchion and your two low level cloaks of night, if you don't want to TR your character, just replace them. They are very replaceable, with a bare minimum of work.

    I would have a little more sympathy if we were talking about a character laden with epic items that took years of work to acquire, but my answer would still be: not signed.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  7. #27

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    Not too long ago, if we wanted to save an item from permanent damage or destruction, our only option was to bind it to character via the stone of change.

    Now that there are other options to deal with item damage, there absolutely should be a way to reverse that particular binding.

    Bust sorry. any item that was crafted or looted as a binding item should remain bound.
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  8. #28
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I have 24 characters on Cannith, 10 on Sarlona, 3 on Khyber, 2 on Thelanis, 1 on Argo, 1 on Ghallanda and 1 on Wayfinder!
    What do you have against Orien?

  9. #29
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    There is no mechanism in the game that supports sharing at all. It is up to the players to be willing to do that.

    Going through several TRs you are likely to cross the same classes on several. Now you could not worry about gearing the classes you are just passing through and pass the loot on and be kind and generous, you could inherit that gear from one of your trs and probably pass on it because you really don't need it, or you could end up taking and keeping the same piece of gear many times.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    There is no mechanism in the game that supports sharing at all. It is up to the players to be willing to do that. ... .
    Hi,

    I don't quite agree with you here. The mechanisms that support sharing are:

    1. The ability to pass other players BTC loot in chests
    2. The property of raid loot that means it binds to character rather than account when removed from a chest.
    3. Limited inventory and bank space

    So at the moment, no. 2 doesn't reward you for taking items for which you have no immediate use. For some people that can make the difference between passing rather than looting.

    If the binding were changed to BTA, there is also considerably less incentive to share with people who aren't already friends or guild mates.

    There's also the issue of limited storage space. Having too much raid loot is not a problem when you can shift it to a mule. I've deleted raid loot because I've been short of space on my main, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It also makes me careful about what I pick up.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  11. #31
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    I don't quite agree with you here. The mechanisms that support sharing are:

    1. The ability to pass other players BTC loot in chests
    2. The property of raid loot that means it binds to character rather than account when removed from a chest.
    3. Limited inventory and bank space

    So at the moment, no. 2 doesn't reward you for taking items for which you have no immediate use. For some people that can make the difference between passing rather than looting.

    If the binding were changed to BTA, there is also considerably less incentive to share with people who aren't already friends or guild mates.

    There's also the issue of limited storage space. Having too much raid loot is not a problem when you can shift it to a mule. I've deleted raid loot because I've been short of space on my main, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It also makes me careful about what I pick up.

    Thanks.
    Well all of this is true if you took btc completely out of the game. No raid loot or any other btc loot has been suggested to become all out bound to account. But I can see how being able to convert it at any point in the future to bta could be interpreted in the same way.

    However could I use the example of how many bta items I have passed in a chest because I already had enough that I can switch them from character at need as a reason that you're wrong to think items will no longer be passed?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    Well all of this is true if you took btc completely out of the game. No raid loot or any other btc loot has been suggested to become all out bound to account. But I can see how being able to convert it at any point in the future to bta could be interpreted in the same way.

    However could I use the example of how many bta items I have passed in a chest because I already had enough that I can switch them from character at need as a reason that you're wrong to think items will no longer be passed?
    Hi,

    What I've said about mechanisms existing to promote sharing is true now, not in some hypothetical situation where BTC no longer exists.

    I've passed many BTA items myself and also had items passed to me. I'll continue to do so because I mainly play one toon and he has almost everything he wants. I also like to see people get items which are more useful for them than they are for me, which is why my ranger has passed several torcs to casters who I thought would better use them.

    I don't think sharing will stop completely. Some people are too nice not to share. Others don't mind sharing because they already have what they want and they don't like to let good loot rot in chests or in their own banks.

    What I said in my first post was that I thought sharing would decrease in PUG raids. At no point did I say that I thought sharing would stop completely. Similarly, the OP's original post didn't specifically exclude raid loot, which is why I have a problem with his suggestion.

    An improvement which could be made to raid loot binding rules, which I don't think would disadvantage anyone, would be to make 20th list reward items BTCoE.

    That might encourage people to run raids with characters who don't need anything for that raid. You pass what you get in the raid if you don't need it, but your 20th reward item is yours for any character you have.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 01-23-2013 at 10:23 PM.
    Astrican on Khyber

  13. #33
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    What I've said about mechanisms existing to promote sharing is true now, not in some hypothetical situation where BTC no longer exists.

    I've passed many BTA items myself and also had items passed to me. I'll continue to do so because I mainly play one toon and he has almost everything he wants. I also like to see people get items which are more useful for them than they are for me, which is why my ranger has passed several torcs to casters who I thought would better use them.

    I don't think sharing will stop completely. Some people are too nice not to share. Others don't mind sharing because they already have what they want and they don't like to let good loot rot in chests or in their own banks.

    What I said in my first post was that I thought sharing would decrease in PUG raids. At no point did I say that I thought sharing would stop completely. Similarly, the OP's original post didn't specifically exclude raid loot, which is why I have a problem with his suggestion.

    An improvement which could be made to raid loot binding rules, which I don't think would disadvantage anyone, would be to make 20th list reward items BTCoE.

    That might encourage people to run raids with characters who don't need anything for that raid. You pass what you get in the raid if you don't need it, but your 20th reward item is yours for any character you have.

    Thanks.
    All I've got to say is you are very generous. If I pull a Torc on my ranger the casters are sol.

  14. #34
    Community Member Meetch1972's Avatar
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    Default Not as user friendly as the OP suggestion but...

    ... I'd settle for the ability to deconstruct event items to get the majority of ingredients back if I had to...
    Goe ahed... korekt mah spelin'.

  15. #35
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    I have lessened my objections to this slightly I agree for nonraid gear that there should be a way but for raid gear no way and raid gear that isnt BTC now should be made that way. Componets are a different story though those shouldnt be bound.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I have 24 characters on Cannith, 10 on Sarlona, 3 on Khyber, 2 on Thelanis, 1 on Argo, 1 on Ghallanda and 1 on Wayfinder!

    I did have many more!

    And I've been concentrating on consolidating the characters I'm actually going to play to Cannith and Sarlona!
    I may have to stay on Khyber too.

    Now Cannith IS Full! {For me!}.
    I have plenty of Space {clearly} on Sarlona {another 14 slots} BUT the issue is that I simply don't have the time to play any more characters!
    The next transfer is going to be from Argo to Sarlona - The character is an Elf Fighter atm {1st life} and I realised that for what I was planning {Elf Bladesinger basically} I may as well take him through the requisite past lives rather than having a 1st life {gimped} Battlemage!

    Now it may be that I don't even feel the loss of those two Cloaks of Night, The Icy Bursted Falchion and whatever other BtC items I end up deleting!
    My last transfer was a TR {I forgot about the TR Cache not transferring and lost everything above Lvl 7} - A much bigger loss for that character I think you'll agree BUT I got over it.

    However: BtC to BtA has come up on these forums many times now - I used a specific example that hurts me - Others have their own issues with BtC loot!
    I know about Raid Loot BUT I didn't mention Raid loot in my OP - Getting to that; I feel that if this item I'm asking for is rare enough {Purified Eberron Shards could even be given an actual use for non-crafters here} it wouldn't cause major issues.
    It's far more likely for people to use it to transfer Event items than Raid Loot I would have said {as Events aren't available most of the time to get those items}.

    I'd also prefer to NOT have to run Mabar EVER again - Don't even ask me how I feel about Risia!
    I know I'm going to have to grind Mabar {and most definitely the Cove} every time they come out for the foreseeable future - What I'm asking for isn't going to change this considering how many characters I have to gear up.
    BUT any alleviation of this grind will be gladly appreciated!

    Back to Raid Loot - If someone has Earned an E-SoS {yes let's use the be-all and end all of weapons as an example} but has decided to TR said character {maybe even go completionist} and won't be using said sword for quite some time {if ever again} - Is it really a bad thing for said player to be able to transfer that sword to another character in HIS/HER stable who can actually make use of it?

    P.S. I don't have E-SoS - The only proper {non-event} Epic item I've made so far is the Epic Utility Vest for my Trapper!
    My other Rogues and Artis are gradually being given the scrolls, seals, shards and of course the base item as I find them.
    I wouldn't even countenance transferring that item off the character it is on!

    Like I said I agree on nonraid gear and especially on Mabar hate that thing so much.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    All I've got to say is you are very generous. If I pull a Torc on my ranger the casters are sol.
    Hi,

    Thanks for that.

    I've not pulled one on either my cleric or my wizard in many, many completions. If they were BTA I may not have been so happy to give them away, sad to say.

    My ranger has stupidly good luck with them. He's pulled about five now, I think, including the one he got when soloing it on heroic normal. That was one of my better DDO moments.

    Take care.
    Astrican on Khyber

  18. #38
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    Thanks for that.

    I've not pulled one on either my cleric or my wizard in many, many completions. If they were BTA I may not have been so happy to give them away, sad to say.

    My ranger has stupidly good luck with them. He's pulled about five now, I think, including the one he got when soloing it on heroic normal. That was one of my better DDO moments.

    Take care.
    Well I hope for both of us that we aren't together when you are on your caster and my ranger pulls a Torc.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    What this really comes down to is: How many Turbine points are you willing to pay for it?
    995 TP lets do this

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    Well I hope for both of us that we aren't together when you are on your caster and my ranger pulls a Torc.
    Hi,

    I promise only to cry on the inside, not in party chat.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

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