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  1. #1
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    Default Stunning Blow ?s

    What kind of DC do you need to make Stunning Blow work in Ehard?
    What kind of DC do you need to make Stunning Blow work in EElite?

    Do stunning modifiers stack? (for example Seal of House DunRobar and Hide of the Goristo)

    Am I missing any sources of Stunning Blow DC listed below?
    3 fighter past lives
    3 dwarf tactics
    4 fighter enhancements
    3 kensai Prestige
    10 base of Stunning Blow
    ? strength modifier
    10 +10 item

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    55-60 should probably be what you wanna aim for for epic elites (curerntly anyway. there are some reports that epic gianthold have mobs who save against even that high of a fort dc). and you missed exceptional combat master (up to a +6).

    modifiers dont stack, unless they are of a different type. usually items are all enhancements unless they state otherwise.

  3. #3
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    Am I missing any sources of Stunning Blow DC listed below?
    3 fighter past lives
    3 dwarf tactics
    4 fighter enhancements
    3 kensai Prestige
    10 base of Stunning Blow
    ? strength modifier
    10 +10 item
    You're missing Exceptional Combat Mastery. The Spare Hand from Cannith Challenges has it up to +5.
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  4. #4
    Founder Lifespawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    What kind of DC do you need to make Stunning Blow work in Ehard?
    What kind of DC do you need to make Stunning Blow work in EElite?

    Do stunning modifiers stack? (for example Seal of House DunRobar and Hide of the Goristo)

    Am I missing any sources of Stunning Blow DC listed below?
    3 fighter past lives
    3 dwarf tactics
    4 fighter enhancements
    3 kensai Prestige
    10 base of Stunning Blow
    ? strength modifier
    10 +10 item

    Thanks!
    5 from combat mastery cannith challenge belt or the eveningstar challenge cloak

    even with all that your stunning blow won't match a first life non dwarf monk

    Stunning blow needs a serious upgrade it has a much longer cooldown than stunning fist and no char level to the save so 25 less than stunning fist thats huge

    Even with str easier to boost for temp bonuses the cooldown more than makes up for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Fernando has yet to even suggest a nerf of anything.
    Oh and by the way (referring to your sig), we aren't nerfing the Torc.

  5. #5
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    I also left out legendary tactics for another +6
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Last-Wolf View Post
    I surrender to your wit sir, well played
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifespawn View Post
    5 from combat mastery cannith challenge belt or the eveningstar challenge cloak

    even with all that your stunning blow won't match a first life non dwarf monk

    Stunning blow needs a serious upgrade it has a much longer cooldown than stunning fist and no char level to the save so 25 less than stunning fist thats huge

    Even with str easier to boost for temp bonuses the cooldown more than makes up for that.
    and yet to make it viable with those enhancements he has, he still only needs a 30 str, which isnt much. I've seen wizards hit that mark and higher, and its about 10 lower as what stunning fist needs to be viable in the same content, with the added bonus of being easily able to increase it more (str is the easiest stat to increase)

    sure it has no character level increase, but there are enhancements to upgrade it and doesnt require any substance to actually use it. fighters don't really have alot of stuff to use their enhancements for besides tactics stuff. plus stunning blow works with any weapon, stunning fist can only be used unarmed.

  7. #7
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    and yet to make it viable with those enhancements he has, he still only needs a 30 str, which isnt much. I've seen wizards hit that mark and higher, and its about 10 lower as what stunning fist needs to be viable in the same content, with the added bonus of being easily able to increase it more (str is the easiest stat to increase)

    sure it has no character level increase, but there are enhancements to upgrade it and doesnt require any substance to actually use it. fighters don't really have alot of stuff to use their enhancements for besides tactics stuff. plus stunning blow works with any weapon, stunning fist can only be used unarmed.
    It is way easier on a monk.

    Stunning Fist is 10 + half Character level + Wisdom modifier + Other modifiers.

    So, with a WIS of 40 (14 modifier) and 6 from legendary tactics and a +10 stun item you are at 52.5. Add in 3 from GMoF and 3 from being Dwarf and you are at 58.5 Add in +5 Exc Combat mastery and you would 63.5

    Also, Stunning Fist has a 6 second cooldown. The cost of 15 ki is nothing.


    Compared to Stunning Blow which is 10 + Str modifier + other modifiers.

    So, with a STR of 40 (14 modifier) and 6 from legendary tactics and a +10 stun item you are at 40. Add 3 from being Dwarf and you are at 43. Add in +5 Exc Combat mastery and you would 48. Add in 3 more from Kensai Prestige and 4 more from fighter enhancements and you are at 55.

    So with Stunning Blow you are 8.5 behind stunning fist. And you get a 15 second cooldown compared to 6 on Stunning Fist. And you have to spend 10AP in enhancements (not counting fighter prestige).


    Stunning Blow needs lots of help o be comparable to Stunning Fist.
    Last edited by jortann; 01-22-2013 at 08:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Last-Wolf View Post
    I surrender to your wit sir, well played
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  8. #8
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    It is way easier on a monk.

    Stunning Fist is 10 + half Character level + Wisdom modifier + Other modifiers.

    So, with a WIS of 40 (14 modifier) and 6 from legendary tactics and a +10 stun item you are at 52.5. Add in 3 from GMoF and 3 from being Dwarf and you are at 58.5 Add in +5 Exc Combat mastery and you would 63.5

    Also, Stunning Fist has a 6 second cooldown. The cost of 15 ki is nothing.


    Compared to Stunning Blow which is 10 + Str modifier + other modifiers.

    So, with a STR of 40 (14 modifier) and 6 from legendary tactics and a +10 stun item you are at 40. Add 3 from being Dwarf and you are at 43. Add in +5 Exc Combat mastery and you would 48. Add in 3 more from Kensai Prestige and 4 more from fighter enhancements and you are at 55.

    So with Stunning Blow you are 8.5 behind stunning fist. And you get a 15 second cooldown compared to 6 on Stunning Fist. And you have to spend 10AP in enhancements (not counting fighter prestige).


    Stunning Blow needs lots of help o be comparable to Stunning Fist.
    40 in a stat is 15 modifier, not 14. >_>
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  9. #9
    Community Member Chilldude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    So with Stunning Blow you are 8.5 behind stunning fist. And you get a 15 second cooldown compared to 6 on Stunning Fist. And you have to spend 10AP in enhancements (not counting fighter prestige).
    Then you should roll a bard, they have excellent CC. =D

    (It's an inside joke.)

  10. #10
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    Then you should roll a bard, they have excellent CC. =D

    (It's an inside joke.)
    lol... don't make me boot that Bard out of the guild again!
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Last-Wolf View Post
    I surrender to your wit sir, well played
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  11. #11
    Community Member Mercureal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    What kind of DC do you need to make Stunning Blow work in Ehard?
    What kind of DC do you need to make Stunning Blow work in EElite?

    Do stunning modifiers stack? (for example Seal of House DunRobar and Hide of the Goristo)

    Am I missing any sources of Stunning Blow DC listed below?
    3 fighter past lives
    3 dwarf tactics
    4 fighter enhancements
    3 kensai Prestige
    10 base of Stunning Blow
    ? strength modifier
    10 +10 item

    Thanks!
    Other people already mentioned the Exc Combat Mastery bonus. I find a mid-40s DC works reliably for most things in Epic Hard, other than Orange-Named melee mobs.
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  12. #12
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Your also missing a stunning 10 item available on a seal of dunrobar, or the hide of the gor chest piece. (Or even just a drow weapon but odds are your going to shoot for a top dps weapon.)

    Your dc will probably be around 50 or higher with the LD tactics. Of course you can also make that number higher with improved sunder which doesn't need to land to reduce the monsters save.

    I think mine is 10base+16(strmod)+10(stun)+5(combat)+6(LDtactics)+ 3(enhancments) so it should be 50. Then you can add on a few for things like ship buffs and yugo pots, if you have a +5 tome going, all that ****.

    Thing that still annoys me is that while you need to work a bit harder at jacking it up the timer is just long. Which is why stunning fist outright trumps it by being able to spam and keep a monster locked down and stunned forever.

    Maybe in stunning blow was like an arc that stunned a group of things in front of you. Well either way the arrival of combat mastery, and stunning 10 on something other then a blunt weapon as well as ED twists have made stunning blow now at least fathomable to take.....er let me rephrase that. Theirs near no damn reason not to. It's not as great as fist but it's a solid melee cc, and jacks dps up like no tomarrow from helpless state.

    Well that or be the nub waiting on someone else to shove their boot far into your crevice to get ya out of the way so they can cc and make everything vanish into a mist.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    Am I missing any sources of Stunning Blow DC listed below?
    Don't forget...it's not all about buffing up your Stunning DC, it's also about breaking down their saves, of which there are many options...two of the readily available options being Improved Sunder and Grave Wrappings.

  14. #14
    The Hatchery bigolbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifespawn View Post
    5 from combat mastery cannith challenge belt or the eveningstar challenge cloak

    even with all that your stunning blow won't match a first life non dwarf monk

    Stunning blow needs a serious upgrade it has a much longer cooldown than stunning fist and no char level to the save so 25 less than stunning fist thats huge

    Even with str easier to boost for temp bonuses the cooldown more than makes up for that.
    here here... I run both unarmed stunners and a tactics fighter. And that cool down is extremely anoying for my fighter - Id be all for the tactics feats being changed to be inline with monks.

    And please no one tell me theres a cost to a monk in terms of ki, getting your ki regen up highenough to keep spamming stuning fists is not remotely dificult even on a character that only has 1 monk lvl.

    Infact im off to start a thread on this so if you agree.. see me in the suggestions forum.

    @op.

    you missed.
    drednaught: legendary tactics: +6.
    warforge: tactics +3.
    exceptional combat mastery: up to +6, +5 more common.
    Ex Euro player from devourer: Charaters on orien(Officer of Under Estimated & Nightfox): Wrothgar, Cobolt, Shadeweaver, TheMetal, Metaphysical, Allfred, Razortusk and many more.
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  15. #15
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    Str of 40? Is that a joke. There is no excuse for ftr above 20 to be less than 50 and should be targeting 60. My ftr barb who is stunning machine str =80. And he's not evem totally geared. Thats plus 35 to stun dc and dmg. Monks do not get that.
    Last edited by count_spicoli; 01-23-2013 at 11:40 AM.

  16. #16
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    No they just keep their guy stunned forever.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    Str of 40? Is that a joke. There is no excuse for ftr above 20 to be less than 50 and should be targeting 60. My ftr barb who is stunning machine str =80. And he's not evem totally geared. Thats plus 35 to stun dc and dmg. Monks do not get that.
    He just has a really really bad fighter. Yes, 40 STR on an epic fighter is crazy crazy low. 40 isn't even good for a pre-epic fighter. Then you get those 100 STR barbarians...

  18. #18
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    The cost of 15 ki is nothing.
    If all you use is Stunning Fist, sure. If you want to do anything else, 15 ki every 6 seconds is a significant cost.
    Stunning Blow needs lots of help o be comparable to Stunning Fist.
    Should it be? Put another way, if khopesh fighters should be able to stun as well as unarmed monks, should unarmed monks be able to do as much raw DPS as khopesh fighters?

    Or is it better for there to be palpable choices?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    Str of 40? Is that a joke. There is no excuse for ftr above 20 to be less than 50 and should be targeting 60. My ftr barb who is stunning machine str =80. And he's not evem totally geared. Thats plus 35 to stun dc and dmg. Monks do not get that.
    So, how exactly do you get there? My fighters can hit that value (50), but only for limited numbers of short periods of time, possibly needing gear swaps.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    Str of 40? Is that a joke. There is no excuse for ftr above 20 to be less than 50 and should be targeting 60. My ftr barb who is stunning machine str =80. And he's not evem totally geared. Thats plus 35 to stun dc and dmg. Monks do not get that.
    Bit off topic, but what's your barb's gear? You say your barb's not totally geared but I can't get that last 2-4 str(~80-82 on a horc) without lessening efficiency with my barb's gear, and I have most great items on him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    So, how exactly do you get there? My fighters can hit that value (50), but only for limited numbers of short periods of time, possibly needing gear swaps.
    For fighters:
    18base+4tome+6lvls+7item+2ins+1exc+2profane+2enhs= 44+8surge+2ship=54
    +5 tome=+1
    +3 profane=+1
    +8 item=+1
    +3 ins=+1
    ftrenh=+1
    yugo=+2

    Then the race enhancements/bonuses.
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

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