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  1. #1
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Default Healing amp changes

    I'm not sure when, but it seems heal amp enhancements have changed, and it's been bothering me for a while, as i was unable to figure out why my values were slightly off.

    As far as I know and remember the way heal amp used to work, was enhancements (other than paladin hotd) overwrote their previous version, ie tier 2 human was a 20% boost, not a secondary stacking 10 % boost.

    This has since changed, and these racial / class enhancements boosts to heal amp now work as stacking boosts, meaning the tooltips aren't accurate.

    Code:
    Sources of amp		bonus
    airship			1.1
    human tier 1		1.1
    human tier 2		1.1
    monk tier 1		1.1
    monk tier 2		1.1
    dragon touch		1.1
    dragon touch		1.2
    fire stance		1.25
    3 paladin past lives	1.15
    		
    		
    Total heal amp		3.055942725
    Under the old system the total would have been 3.00564
    And to people who try say paladin past lives are 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05, the total would have been 3.076205

    Neither of those two scenarios works out correctly with the following unyeilding sovereignty, screenshot


  2. #2
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Default

    There could also just be some rounding involved (or more likely, dropping of decimal places) as there is with XP calculations. Multiplication with rounding isn't commutative, so to properly test your hypothesis, start with one source and add additional sources one at a time.

  3. #3
    Community Member Cyiwin's Avatar
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    Ahha! I bet you're right. I think they noticed there were a lot of situations where heal amp would put you close to the next whole number but no cigar. Maybe this was to compensate a little for the lack of rounding.

  4. #4
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    There could also just be some rounding involved (or more likely, dropping of decimal places) as there is with XP calculations. Multiplication with rounding isn't commutative, so to properly test your hypothesis, start with one source and add additional sources one at a time.
    Ugh, some people are never bloody satisfied.

    You come up with a result to disprove my hypothesis, as currently mine seems accurate.

  5. #5
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Ugh, some people are never bloody satisfied.

    You come up with a result to disprove my hypothesis, as currently mine seems accurate.
    Someone must not have had their wheaties today :P

    You may very well be right, but I couldn't care less about a few points difference in a 3000 point heal. All I'm saying is that you should bring more to the table than one data point if you want people to accept your hypothesis.

  6. #6
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Someone must not have had their wheaties today :P

    You may very well be right, but I couldn't care less about a few points difference in a 3000 point heal. All I'm saying is that you should bring more to the table than one data point if you want people to accept your hypothesis.
    it's an unyielding sov used in the screenshot, it's a 1000 point heal, completely uneffected by spell power, the only thing that changes the value is healing amp.

    regardless, i can't reset my enhancements for 3days, and by that time i'll hopefully have TR'ed again.

  7. #7
    Community Member bbcjoke's Avatar
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    Why not simply remove the dragontouched, leaving fire stance and getting rid of the ship buff for more data points then?

  8. #8

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    Here's another datapoint using my pally and unyielding sovereignty. Healing amp:

    1.05 pally past life
    1.1 human improved recovery I
    1.1 human improved recovery II
    1.1 human improved recovery III
    1.1 hunter of the dead I
    1.1 hunter of the dead II
    1.1 hunter of the dead III
    1.3 pdk gloves
    1.2 convalescent bracers of superior parrying
    1.1 ship buff
    =3.1919986098

    1.05 pally past life
    1.3 human recovery III
    1.1 hunter of the dead I
    1.1 hunter of the dead II
    1.1 hunter of the dead III
    1.3 pdk gloves
    1.2 convalescent bracers of superior parrying
    1.1 ship buff
    =3.11765454

    Looks like my results say the same thing the OP's does.




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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Here's another datapoint using my pally and unyielding sovereignty. Healing amp:

    1.05 pally past life
    1.1 human improved recovery I
    1.1 human improved recovery II
    1.1 human improved recovery III
    1.1 hunter of the dead I
    1.1 hunter of the dead II
    1.1 hunter of the dead III
    1.3 pdk gloves
    1.2 convalescent bracers of superior parrying
    1.1 ship buff
    =3.1919986098

    1.05 pally past life
    1.3 human recovery III
    1.1 hunter of the dead I
    1.1 hunter of the dead II
    1.1 hunter of the dead III
    1.3 pdk gloves
    1.2 convalescent bracers of superior parrying
    1.1 ship buff
    =3.11765454

    Looks like my results say the same thing the OP's does.
    Yeah I don't know what to say...it's been working this way for a while. It only really matters for retributive healing, like Fists of Light or Vampirism. It's a big deal to get your 1-2 to step up to 2-4, or 2-5, or whatever...not as big of a deal to get a few more points on a heal (though nice of course).

    I first noticed this when my Fists of Light damage had stepped up at some point when it shouldn't have...like I did the math the 'old way' and it came out to 1.95 or whatever, so was confused why my number had stepped up. Then I multiplied them all out this 'new' way and saw that the number was really 2.01 or something like that...

  10. #10
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Here's another datapoint using my pally and unyielding sovereignty. Healing amp:
    I know this is completely notwithstanding to the discussion but...How can you play with so few hotbars?

    Also, anyone know since when that's been happening?
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  11. #11
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    thanks for the extra data point EllisDee

  12. #12
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Very interesting, thanks for posting.

  13. #13
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Youre adding each human tier and each monk tier multiplicatively when its the total thats supposed to add in multiplicatively.

    So for a heal scroll youre adding

    110 base

    1.1 human t1
    1.1 human t2
    1.1 human t3
    ---------------------
    146.41

    When it is supposed to be

    110 base

    1.3 human t3
    --------------------------
    143

    If you look at the enhancement, it describes that you now have 30% (for tier 3), so it gets multiplied in as 30% once and not 10%*10%*10%.

    Edit: looks like someone is already on top of this. - is each tier stacking itself now or are they all adding up to one value then multiplying in?
    Last edited by Chai; 01-22-2013 at 04:32 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    what?! since when did the old additive bonuses change to multiplicative? feat and enhancement bonuses are supposed to be additive, hence why fleshmaker's necklace works differently and the order in which you equip gear matters.

    can you test WF healer's friend and see if it also changed to multiplicative?
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  15. #15
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    How can you play with so few hotbars?
    At that resolution he's lucky if he see the entire auction house window.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Youre adding each human tier and each monk tier multiplicatively when its the total thats supposed to add in multiplicatively.

    So for a heal scroll youre adding

    110 base

    1.1 human t1
    1.1 human t2
    1.1 human t3
    ---------------------
    146.41

    When it is supposed to be

    110 base

    1.3 human t3
    --------------------------
    143

    If you look at the enhancement, it describes that you now have 30% (for tier 3), so it gets multiplied in as 30% once and not 10%*10%*10%
    did you read the op, or just come in to argue? I stated the description was wrong, and provided the math and screenshot to prove it.

    each tier of amp with monk and human is now an extra 10%, if you have 3 tiers, it's currently calculated as 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 1.331

  17. #17
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    what?! since when did the old additive bonuses change to multiplicative? feat and enhancement bonuses are supposed to be additive, hence why fleshmaker's necklace works differently and the order in which you equip gear matters.

    can you test WF healer's friend and see if it also changed to multiplicative?
    already did, it's still reducing the penalty by 10% per tier.

    for 60/70/80% base heal amp

  18. #18
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    Hrm...wonder if this is WAI. At the edges of a cut-off this could be very significant, especially for monks.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Tirisha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Edit: looks like someone is already on top of this. - is each tier stacking itself now or are they all adding up to one value then multiplying in?
    this is how I remembered it working. Human amp 2 would be a flat 1.20% (adding) not 1.21% (multiplying) but if you had human amp 2 and say monk amp 2 it would be 1.20X1.20=1.44

    From the OPs screen shot it appears that it's all multiplicative now.

    He's getting 3.055 were as he should be getting 3.005
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  20. #20

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    Another little data point

    Relevant information:
    1x Paladin past life
    Human improved recovery 3
    Monk improved recovery 2
    Paladin hunter of the dead 2
    30% eclaw gloves
    25% jidz fire dance
    20% healing amp DT
    10% healing amp DT
    10% vigor of battle
    10% shipbuff

    100% base amp * 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.25 * 1.2 * 1.2 * .1.2 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.05 = 510% according to the "old" way
    100% base amp * 1.1*10 * 1.3 * 1.25 * 1.2 * 1.05 = 531% according to the OP's math

    (Combat): You heal 1,327 points of damage from Silver Flame Healing.
    (Combat): You heal 5,310 points of damage from Unyielding Sovereignty.

    My results support the OP's math.

    Edit and question: does purity of essence cause anyone elses numbers to become... odd? my restults with silver flame pots and unyielding sov end up just a smidge to high if I use it
    Last edited by Forgeborn; 01-22-2013 at 06:43 PM.

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