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  1. #61
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    If there's something wrong with shard/seal drops in that chain, please, for the love of all that is holy, put in a detailed bug report with steps to reproduce that our Quality Assurance team can follow.
    If our QA team can verify a bug, then they assign it to a developer to get fixed.
    I've submitted several, one just last week when this thread started getting running.

    It really is as simple to reproduce as "run on EH or EE, observe the lack of seals dropping."
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  2. #62
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    If there's something wrong with shard/seal drops in that chain, please, for the love of all that is holy, put in a detailed bug report with steps to reproduce that our Quality Assurance team can follow.
    If our QA team can verify a bug, then they assign it to a developer to get fixed.
    I was going to reply directly, but it seems most of it has been said:

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceTheHoon View Post
    You are asking us to give steps to reproduce an event that is by its very nature a random event with misery% chance of happening?
    Imploring us to do something impossible will not help anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrix View Post
    Steps to reproduce:
    complete quest on Epic Hard or Epic Elite.
    No seals drop in quest.
    The fact that you can write such a comment/reply after all that has been said and done here is a massive disappointment. Reproduce low drop rate... really? Sad. It's almost like you're going out of your way to insult us.

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  3. #63
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    One more FYI - I got an update from my bug report, and was told this is an already known issue.

    So ... reported and acknowledged as known ... no idea what it takes to get this prioritized.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    One more FYI - I got an update from my bug report, and was told this is an already known issue.

    So ... reported and acknowledged as known ... no idea what it takes to get this prioritized.
    Ask for random effects to be added when fixing the bug, maybe?

  5. #65
    The Hatchery NytCrawlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    One more FYI - I got an update from my bug report, and was told this is an already known issue.
    Good to know. I reported this morning, but didn't get an update.

    Really wish they would spend some time trying to resolve this now.

    U17 is going to be awesome, now take the rest of the time afterward getting the health of the game back up to par and getting the legacy epic system phased out, please.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by NytCrawlr View Post
    U17 is going to be awesome, now take the rest of the time afterward getting the health of the game back up to par and getting the legacy epic system phased out, please.
    Since Epic items seem to be moving into three versions (Epic, Epic Hard, Epic Elite), I'm surprised that the legacy epic items haven't been phased out and redesigned...

    What do I mean:
    * Remove all Shards, Seals and Scrolls from chests and have items drop as they do in the new epic quests.
    * Players with legacy Epic items automatically get the Epic Elite version of the item.
    * Players that have the heroic base item and any two epic pieces can go to the altar and make the Epic Hard version.
    * Players with the heroic base item and one epic piece can make the Epic Normal version

    Now there's two ways to make the new epic legacy items. One, make the current legacy items the Epic Normal and add effects to the other versions with the ML going up by one per difficulty. Two, make the current legacy items be Epic Elite and the other versions slightly weaker, but they all share the same ML 20. Personally, I'd go with number one, since most legacy epic items are fairly weak.

    Yes, this will mean new designs to items. Yes, this means there will be alot more recipes for the Epic altar. Yes, I know it will be alot of work and coding. But uniformity would be greatly appreciated in the game. (Aside, speaking of uniformity, fix the Threnal and Necro flagging so it's like all the other flagging quests in the game.)

  7. #67
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibor View Post
    ...QA probably doesn't have the skill set or tools to even verify something like this. I'm sure they get a ton of false reports on drop rates anyway, since drop rates are, for the most part, unpublished, ...
    This ^ Think about what you typed, Feather.

    How the hell are we supposed to tell QA how to reproduce a drop rate chance?

    Several folks have taken a swipe at QA , but MajMal and team can't run a representative enough sample to make a judgment call on drop rates. Players can, and your devs can review the tables and drop mechanic.

    _IF_ your bug triage process RELIES upon clear and repeatable reproduction, then not a single loot-related bug will ever get fixed. this is (if true) an inherent flaw in your process.

    As an executive producer, you should be able to find some chaff around the office to write up a fix for that.
    Last edited by fco-karatekid; 01-29-2013 at 10:59 PM.

  8. #68
    The Hatchery dejafu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    Since Epic items seem to be moving into three versions (Epic, Epic Hard, Epic Elite), I'm surprised that the legacy epic items haven't been phased out and redesigned...

    What do I mean:
    * Remove all Shards, Seals and Scrolls from chests and have items drop as they do in the new epic quests.
    * Players with legacy Epic items automatically get the Epic Elite version of the item.
    * Players that have the heroic base item and any two epic pieces can go to the altar and make the Epic Hard version.
    * Players with the heroic base item and one epic piece can make the Epic Normal version

    Now there's two ways to make the new epic legacy items. One, make the current legacy items the Epic Normal and add effects to the other versions with the ML going up by one per difficulty. Two, make the current legacy items be Epic Elite and the other versions slightly weaker, but they all share the same ML 20. Personally, I'd go with number one, since most legacy epic items are fairly weak.

    Yes, this will mean new designs to items. Yes, this means there will be alot more recipes for the Epic altar. Yes, I know it will be alot of work and coding. But uniformity would be greatly appreciated in the game. (Aside, speaking of uniformity, fix the Threnal and Necro flagging so it's like all the other flagging quests in the game.)
    Gotta say I like this idea. A LOT. Since it would be a lot of work, I'd be fine with seeing it released on a gradual basis over the next few updates, but just knowing that something like this was in the works would make me quite happy.

    I'm sure they could also simply replace the old loot drop system but leave the current loot that people have unchanged, and that would certainly be a lot easier. But to do something like what the post above describes would be a BIG step in the right direction for Turbine's PR.
    Last edited by dejafu; 01-29-2013 at 11:33 PM.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    If there's something wrong with shard/seal drops in that chain, please, for the love of all that is holy, put in a detailed bug report with steps to reproduce that our Quality Assurance team can follow.
    If our QA team can verify a bug, then they assign it to a developer to get fixed.
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  10. #70
    The Hatchery NytCrawlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    Great Idea Snip...
    Yeah, much better than the idea I had suggested a little earlier, and would still help out those with bags of epic ings., +1 and all that.

    At this point I wish they would just acknowledge that they are going to phase it out and that it might be a long term goal, because I can't imagine they haven't thought about this.

  11. #71
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    If there's something wrong with shard/seal drops in that chain, please, for the love of all that is holy, put in a detailed bug report with steps to reproduce that our Quality Assurance team can follow.
    If our QA team can verify a bug, then they assign it to a developer to get fixed.
    Please for the love of all that is holy READ the bleeding bug reports that we painstakingly enter, over in over, in great detail, and RESPOND to them and either add them to the known issues list, or let the sender know that you need more info, or that isn't not actually a bug.

    There are bugs that I have reported half a dozen times or more, each with very clear details on how to replicate the bug. They have not been fixed, they have not been added to the known issues list. They sit out there in no-mans-land.

    We're doing our part, (that is, paying to test your game for you) so quit blaming us for your failings.
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  12. #72
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    If there's something wrong with shard/seal drops in that chain, please, for the love of all that is holy, put in a detailed bug report with "steps to reproduce that our Quality Assurance team can follow.
    If our QA team can verify a bug, then they assign it to a developer to get fixed.
    I have been a Turbine apologist for as long as I've played...I love DDO and am willing to overlook most short comings. I know that DDO is a hodgepodge of 7 or 8 year old code that has had probably dozens (if not hundreds) more hands in it. Mistakes will happen, that's a given.

    This reply however dumbfounds me. This has been a known issue (at least among players) for a quite awhile. I would be shocked if no bugs have been reported. You have asked for "steps to reproduce that our Quality Assurance team can follow". That is basically impossible unless your QA team is going to run the quests at least 100 times. Who here think's they are going to do that?

    C'mon Turbine...your better than this.

  13. #73
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    After reading this thread I believe the best thing any Turbine employee can do is to not register on the forums.

    While I am dumbfounded by FoS post the amount of flack he received just reinforces why we no longer have a WDA, much less consistent communication from Turbine.
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  14. #74
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I'd like to ask everyone to play nice. It isn't FoS's job to manage bug reports - he's just the only employee not yet burned out by our pleasant nature ;-)

    But, if other devs are reading this - it has been reported. I have the personal message back as well indicating it is a known issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazebo, from the QA team
    Greetings voodoogroves,

    Thank you for contacting Turbine with your report, "OTHER: Seals do not drop in the Lords of Dusk chain on anything other than Normal difficulty". We value our player's input and appreciate your taking the time to provide Turbine with your valuable feedback.

    We're sorry that you are experiencing this difficulty, but we appreciate your contacting us.

    We are aware of the issue which you have reported to us and it is currently under investigation. Once again, we want to thank you for taking the time to report this.

    Best wishes,

    Gazebo
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    Clearly, known. What isn't clear is how well the magnitude is understood internally within Turbine.
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  15. #75
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alavatar View Post
    After reading this thread I believe the best thing any Turbine employee can do is to not register on the forums.

    While I am dumbfounded by FoS post the amount of flack he received just reinforces why we no longer have a WDA, much less consistent communication from Turbine.
    You must not play here much else you'd realize the tool is faulty and has been admited to as such by Turbine reps in QA. we have no clue if it has ever been fixed or not.

    Given Feather's latest post, it indicates that it has not been or there is an utter breakdown in QA/managers assigning issues.

    As I posted elsewhere already, players point at Devs, Dev point at players, but the problem is really the middle people.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I'd like to ask everyone to play nice. It isn't FoS's job to manage bug reports - he's just the only employee not yet burned out by our pleasant nature ;-)

    But, if other devs are reading this - it has been reported. I have the personal message back as well indicating it is a known issue.



    Clearly, known. What isn't clear is how well the magnitude is understood internally within Turbine.

    They need to have a new list... "The Ignored Issues List"

  17. #77

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    I've tried to use the bug report tool several times.

    It hasn't actually worked in over a year.
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  18. #78
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    You must not play here much else you'd realize the tool is faulty and has been admited to as such by Turbine reps in QA. we have no clue if it has ever been fixed or not.
    I am not certain what you are trying to address from my post with this point. I have been around since Feb. 2006 and have submitted my share of bug reports over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Given Feather's latest post, it indicates that it has not been or there is an utter breakdown in QA/managers assigning issues.

    As I posted elsewhere already, players point at Devs, Dev point at players, but the problem is really the middle people.
    I concur. That doesn't excuse the community for it's rabid and vitreous behavior (which is one of the leading factors for the old WDA being abandoned ... among other things).
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  19. #79
    The Hatchery Mryal's Avatar
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    Wow.Crazy stuff here guys.Lets bash turbine.RAWR.

    Wait no, i wasnt gonna say that.
    I submited another bug report then.Peraphs now they'll fix it.
    But, you guys are missing something.We dont have to 'provide ways to reproduce a drop rate'.
    Main case is :

    1 - Epic normal drops seals and shards (low rate thought honestly, considerably lower than other eberron epics)
    2 - Epic casual/hard/elite drops base items

    This is alredy enough to prove that theres something messy with the loottables :P
    So, i heard the QA team isnt that good (alltrought they probably only recieved a horde of bug reports saying 'wow drop rate on x quest is soo low).But maybe some of our lam devs will read this.Maybe FoS will

    You get a Golden Star if you fix our bug FoS.
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  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chette View Post
    There are bugs that I have reported half a dozen times or more, each with very clear details on how to replicate the bug. They have not been fixed, they have not been added to the known issues list. They sit out there in no-mans-land.
    This annoys me too and is severely discouraging to those who might otherwise be
    inclined to log bug reports. I asked a while back if it would be possible to
    have a public list of known bugs; no way in hell was, essentially, the answer.

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