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  1. #1
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    Default Starter Cleric for the new guy-

    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (change heal skill for balance)
    (20 Cleric)
    Hit Points: 312
    Spell Points: 1786
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 6
    Will: 21

    Starting Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
    (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
    Strength 10 12
    Dexterity 8 8
    Constitution 14 17 (tr version 15 18)
    Intelligence 10 12
    Wisdom 18 28
    Charisma 14 16

    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

    Starting Feat/Enhancement
    Base Skills Modified Skills
    Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
    Balance -1 6
    Bluff -1 0
    Concentration 7 27
    Diplomacy -1 0
    Disable Device n/a n/a
    Haggle -1 0
    Heal 6 33
    Hide -1 0
    Intimidate -1 0
    Jump 2 3
    Listen 4 9
    Move Silently -1 0
    Open Lock n/a n/a
    Perform n/a n/a
    Repair -1 0
    Search -1 0
    Spot 4 9
    Swim 2 3
    Tumble 0 1
    Use Magic Device n/a n/a

    Level 1 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Extend Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness

    Level 3 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell

    Level 6 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness

    Level 9 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness

    Level 12 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

    Level 15 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell

    Level 18 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


    Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Improved Heal I
    Enhancement: Improved Heal II
    Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
    Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing III
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
    Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
    Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
    Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
    Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
    Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
    Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing I
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
    Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention

    Edit: 28pt stats were excluded. Should have been 10, 8, 14, 10, 17, 13 add 1 stat to cha and the rest to wis for levels.
    Last edited by Xynot2; 01-20-2013 at 01:44 PM.

  2. #2
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    Unless you're dead set on a healing only build (not necessary as you can build for offensive casting and not hurt your healing much at all) Drop mental tough/ improved mental tough. They aren't worth it. Pick up some spell pen or evocation feats to improve your offensive spell casting. Extend is fine for early levels but is not useful later on, I'd swap it out for something better around level 10 or so.

    concentration and balance (can't heal on your back) are probably the best way to go as far as skills.

    If your going for a caster type you should consider splashing monk for evasion and better wisdom. Honestly, the capstone stinks so a pure cleric really isn't optimal for a divine caster.

    take the human heal amp enhancements for sure. drop zealot line, improved empower healing line and prayer/incredible pray of llife (only take what you need for radiant servant 2) they aren't worth it. Take the smiting lines, they boost your only DoT spell, divine punishment which is your boss weapon.
    Last edited by axel15810; 01-20-2013 at 01:59 AM.

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  3. #3
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Unless you splash monk I'd change lg to true neutral, if a monk splash go lawful neutral, you'll avoid a bunch of damage that way.

    I'd also say to drop the mental toughness line and pick up heighten, and evocation focus, honestly with the spwr changes I'd drop empower and pick up greater evo focus.

    The evo will help your blade barrier, implosion, soundburst dc's

    Heighten is all about dc's and will help greatly with instant kills and cc at higher level.

    edit*
    I'd also go and rework the skills for umd, fireshield scrolls are a big help in survival.
    Last edited by Charononus; 01-20-2013 at 02:15 AM.

  4. #4
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    New guy?

    Most truly new players do not have 32 point builds, and they may not be willing to drop cash on +2 supremes in the DDO Store. They certainly won't have the plat to buy +1's of every relevant stat, much less +2's.

    I would much prefer builds meant for new players be designed like it's a NEW PLAYER, not a vet whose got TP/platto burn. Meaning no tomes and 28 point builds.

    1 - As a Human, you get 1 extra skill point. With 10 INT, you should have 3/level. I only see investment in two skills.

    2 - By 7, assuming a Tome, you'd add a 4th skill point.

    3 - Heal, as it stands, is useless. I know you made a small note, but just change it in the planner. It's easy to miss that note. Heck, I did initially.

    1-3a - I would max UMD, Balance, and Concentration with this build. Add in Jump with the extra skill points from the Tome, because White Clerics Can't Jump. Or you could put it in Spot, though with a highish WIS you should do fine there without much investment. Not like this is a trapper.

    4 - MT/IMT are... less than thrilling returns on investment. Hitting those slots with Evo/G Evo focuses would be better, moving the metamagics up since you'll want them mostly for later spells anyway. Shield Mastery/I Shield Mastery may make you a bit more survivable, though at a high cost again. I'm not sure I'd take those on a full Cleric build, Heal bot maybe.

    5 - Prayer of Life/Incredible Life and Energy of the Zealot lines aren't worth the heavy AP investment past whats needed for RS. I'd invest in Spell Penetration.

    6 - Extend isn't all that great past 15 or so. Slipping in Heighten will work wonders for offensive casting.

    7 - You're ending on an odd CON. Not as important since there's 5 levels to go, but I'd end it on an even number if possible. As it stands, you're paying 7ap for 10hp (4ap for G Adaptability, 3 for Racial Toughness III). Very poor return on investment. Healing Amp line is much better for personal survivability. Believe me, I make considerable use of it on all my characters save three elves.
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  5. #5
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael4h View Post
    New guy?

    Most truly new players do not have 32 point builds, and they may not be willing to drop cash on +2 supremes in the DDO Store. They certainly won't have the plat to buy +1's of every relevant stat, much less +2's.

    I would much prefer builds meant for new players be designed like it's a NEW PLAYER, not a vet whose got TP/platto burn. Meaning no tomes and 28 point builds.
    My thoughts exactly. This is not a new player friendly build, and is too focused on just being a healbot. Terrible choice in a title, as not everyone wants to make clerics just to be healbots.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Jingwei's Avatar
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    The all heal bot all the time cleric is about the most unfun thing available. You might as well have a hireling instead.

    The classic casting cleric looks something like:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
    (20 Cleric) 
    Hit Points: 262
    Spell Points: 1437 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 5
    Will: 20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             10                    10
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom               18                    27
    Charisma             14                    14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               1                    10
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         6                    25
    Diplomacy             4                    24
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                  4                    10
    Hide                 -1                    -1
    Intimidate            2                     2
    Jump                  0                     0
    Listen                4                     8
    Move Silently        -1                    -1
    Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     0
    Search                0                     0
    Spot                  4                     8
    Swim                  0                     0
    Tumble                0                     0
    Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 3 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 4 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 5 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 6 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    
    
    Level 7 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 8 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 9 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 10 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 11 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 12 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    
    
    Level 13 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 14 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 15 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
    
    
    Level 16 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 17 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 18 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
    
    
    Level 19 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 20 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
    Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
    Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Heal I
    Enhancement: Improved Heal II
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
    Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
    Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
    Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
    Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
    Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
    Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
    Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
    Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
    Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    With epic feats being epic spell penetration and greater spell focus: evocation being the epic feats.

    This gets:
    Spell penetration:
    25 Caster level
    8 Feats
    2 enhancements
    2 item
    =
    37 which is enough for epic hard

    Wisdom:
    18 Base
    6 level ups
    1 human
    6 destiny
    7 Commendation item
    2 Commendation item
    =
    40 +

    And implosion DC:
    19 base
    15 wisdom
    2 focus feats
    2 focus item
    =
    38, still pretty anemic, around a 60%? hit rate on epic hard. But a +2 tome and ship buff are easy to get.

    The crit chance and crit multiple increasing enhancements are not worth it. Scroll mastery is needed for to soup up frequent use of heal scrolls.

    --------------

    If making a cleric that doesn't care about offensive spellcasting, take a level of fighter for the weapon proficiencies and dump wisdom. It's not going to help your healing spells.

    [edit[
    28 point version goes to int 8, cha 12. Takes Concentration and balance as skills, instead of the 32 point versions concentration, balance, diplomacy

  7. #7
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Yay, healbot build that will bore the 'new guy' (that somehow has 32pt builds) out of his skull. This build has the worst possible alignment, no heighten, no spell foci at all, no umd, no melee, no scroll-healing enhancements, no spell penetration and no smiting. Even if your only intent is healing, you'd be better served by taking 2 shield masteries. This build has literally nothing going for it besides doing something that even a cleric splash can do.

    Also... healing crits? Seriously?

    -1 if I could. Recommending that anyone, especially new players, play this is a disservice to the community and only helps stigmatize divines as 'just healers' to newer players who haven't got the hang of the game yet.
    Last edited by DarkForte; 01-20-2013 at 03:02 AM.
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  8. #8

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    Here's my new player cleric build. (From here.) I haven't posted it to the builds section yet because I haven't played it yet. That's also why it isn't formatted with the character planner.

    Stats
    ......28pt..32pt..34pt..36pt
    Str....14....14....14....14
    Dex.....8.....8.....8.....8
    Con....14....14....14....14
    Int.....8.....8.....8....10
    Wis....16....18....18....18
    Cha....14....12....14....14


    Skills
    23 Concentration
    11 Jump
    ??? Balance (extra from having +2 int tome kick in at 7 or the extra skills from 36pt build)
    (If have both +2 tome and 36pt build, now we can max UMD since probably have the gear to back it up)

    Levels
    1 Cleric, 2 Wizard, 3-20 Cleric

    Feats
    1: Toughness
    1H: Power Attack, pay to swap this out at 12 making it Spell Pen
    2W: Maximize
    3: Necro Focus (or Past Life: Wizard)
    6: Empower Heal
    9: Heighten
    12: Evocation Focus (Due to wizard splash we don't get BB until 12)
    15: Greater Spell Pen
    18: Quicken
    21: Epic Spell Pen
    24: Great Ability: Wisdom

    Enhancements
    12 Radiant Servant (includes prereqs prayer 1, inc prayer 1, heal 2, imp turn 1, divine vit 1)
    6 Spell Pen II
    12 Empower Heal III
    10 Life Magic IV
    10 Smiting IV
    6 Charisma II
    12 Wisdom III
    2 Human Adaptability: Wisdom
    1 Force I (yay wizard splash!)
    ---
    71
    3 Toughness II
    2 Prayer of Smiting I & Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
    1 Wand & Scroll Mastery I
    3 Extra Turn II or Energy of the Zealot II (undecided)
    ---
    80

    Destiny
    Exalted Angel with all 6 Wisdom and whatever else
    Twist #1: Necromancy Specialist (+3 necro dc), tier 2 Magister (3 fate points)
    Twist #2: Precise Evocation (+2 evo dc), tier 2 Draconic (5 fate points)
    Twist #3: Endless Turning (3 turns, 30% faster regen), tier 1 Unyielding (3 fate points)
    ---
    11 fate points total


    Casting
    19 levels
    8 feats
    2 enhancements
    2 item
    5 autogrants
    ---
    36 spell pen (38 w/wizard past life)

    18 base
    6 levelups
    1 feat
    4 enhancements
    6 destiny
    10 items (cleric's set + holy symbol of lolth)
    1 +1 tome
    ---
    46 wisdom (18 mod)
    2 ship buff
    2 +3 tome
    ---
    50

    10 base
    9 heighten
    18 wisdom
    1 feat
    2 item
    3 twist
    ---
    43 necro dc (45 w/ship buff & +3 tome)

    10 base
    9 heighten
    18 wisdom
    1 feat
    2 item
    2 twist
    ---
    42 evo dc (45 w/ship buff, +3 tome and wizard past life)

    Subtract 1 dc if using 28pt build. Basically, the end goal on the build is 45 dc for destruction and implosion with 38 spell pen. I'm pretty sure this will be "decent" as opposed to good, but poor clerics don't get bonus feats like wizards do so that's what I ended up with.

    The idea is to melee with whatever 2-hander you can find (carnifex, maybe?) using master's touch from 2 to 11, then switch over to bb. Drink fox's cunning pots (ML2) to qualify for casting spells, which is why we don't take wizard until 2. A level 1 wizard with 8 int is no fun at all.

    While this build is technically new player friendly, unlike my other new player builds it's not well suited to be a first-ever character. As a second character it should be fine. (Fox's cunning pots would be a plat hardship on a first character.)

    EDIT: Just realized that if taking past life: wizard instead of necro focus, you won't qualify for necromancy specialist from magister. I need to tweak this a bit more.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    Stopped reading right here.

  10. #10
    Community Member skullzz's Avatar
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    Most of you missed what the OP was getting at.
    Yes he should have done 28pt but that is fine.

    As new players enter the cleric game they will need to focus on one thing, Healing the group. Once this is mastered then branching into either melee or offensive casting. I know when I play my fvs (first life 28pt clr before radiant servant) I focused on healing and guess what I fail 2 quests due to wipes in crucible back when the cap was 16 and we were running it as level 9's.

    Also to those that say the 2 mental toughness feats are not worth it need remember this is a first life cleric. As a first life cleric spell points are tight and those 250 at level 20 help out immensely. Also don't forget they do not have the twink gear for the lower levels. (gs and wizardry items)

    Only thing I would suggest to the OP is to drop extend or exchange it at level 20 for something else.

    +1 to the OP for making a build that new people to clerics can practice with.
    Last edited by skullzz; 01-20-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    You will note that the build I posted gave the guy room to improve on his own. With a first life toon, being new to DDO, I gave him a toon that is great for support and with some light modifications, can do some tanking as well. The key word is *starter* The build I posted: At 20 it can solo heal Shroud. (gear specific). So it's not a trash build by any means. But it gives the guy ideas to modify the character to his tastes without confusion. He doesn't have to ask why about any enhancement. But it does set him up to ask what if. That how I was taught. I was given a fighter build that was pretty good. But definitely not the best and definitely not the only way to build one.

    The build was posted for a new person who doesn't/isn't going to understand the enhancement system so I gave him a build he can learn with not be confused by.

  12. #12
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    You will note that the build I posted gave the guy room to improve on his own. With a first life toon, being new to DDO, I gave him a toon that is great for support and with some light modifications, can do some tanking as well. The key word is *starter* The build I posted: At 20 it can solo heal Shroud. (gear specific). So it's not a trash build by any means. But it gives the guy ideas to modify the character to his tastes without confusion. He doesn't have to ask why about any enhancement. But it does set him up to ask what if. That how I was taught. I was given a fighter build that was pretty good. But definitely not the best and definitely not the only way to build one.

    The build was posted for a new person who doesn't/isn't going to understand the enhancement system so I gave him a build he can learn with not be confused by.
    Honestly I really don't like your teaching methods then. IMO give the new person the best build you can within their requirements and walk them thru why for it. Then answer questions as they learn the game. Giving a build with several major flaws and calling it room for improvement is pretty horrible imo.

  13. #13
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Honestly I really don't like your teaching methods then. IMO give the new person the best build you can within their requirements and walk them thru why for it. Then answer questions as they learn the game. Giving a build with several major flaws and calling it room for improvement is pretty horrible imo.
    Excuse me? Build with several major flaws? That build solo healed Shroud without potions, thank you very much. That build waltzed thru every undead soloable campaign. I would be willing to bet with the new ED system that I could solo heal Epic VoN. Dont insult my build. It may have room for improvement but ask anyone who has had Medicone in their party how good of a toon he was. This is how the sheet I followed looks. I did change some balance things. But no one told me to. I figured it out by playing and it made Medic a better toon and me a better player because I learned it and wasn't handed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    That build solo healed Shroud without potions, thank you very much.
    A decently played bard can solo heal shroud, what's your point?

  15. #15
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    Excuse me? Build with several major flaws? That build solo healed Shroud without potions, thank you very much. That build waltzed thru every undead soloable campaign. I would be willing to bet with the new ED system that I could solo heal Epic VoN. Dont insult my build. It may have room for improvement but ask anyone who has had Medicone in their party how good of a toon he was. This is how the sheet I followed looks. I did change some balance things. But no one told me to. I figured it out by playing and it made Medic a better toon and me a better player because I learned it and wasn't handed it.
    I've played with medicone, you could heal and that was it. Yes in some fights that's fine but lg takes more damage than is needed, the build has low spell dc's which means it can't contribute in some fights effectively, lower spell pen same thing, lower dps on dots which means not as effective of a contribution during boss fights. No way to fire shield which means you will get massively hurt by anything with a dbf. A cleric that can only heal is has major flaws in the build. There are times I only heal on a cleric, certain raid fights ext, but building to only do that is a major flaw imo.

  16. #16
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    A decently played bard can solo heal shroud, what's your point?
    really? a bard heal an elite shroud? that I would like to see. Especially since they're never spec'd that way because it gimps the rest of the toon. I gave toon name- give toon name. I want to know this bard.

  17. #17
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    You will note that the build I posted gave the guy room to improve on his own. With a first life toon, being new to DDO, I gave him a toon that is great for support and with some light modifications, can do some tanking as well. The key word is *starter* The build I posted: At 20 it can solo heal Shroud. (gear specific). So it's not a trash build by any means. But it gives the guy ideas to modify the character to his tastes without confusion. He doesn't have to ask why about any enhancement. But it does set him up to ask what if. That how I was taught. I was given a fighter build that was pretty good. But definitely not the best and definitely not the only way to build one.

    The build was posted for a new person who doesn't/isn't going to understand the enhancement system so I gave him a build he can learn with not be confused by.
    You forgot some things that were commented on already. New guys aren't going to have 32 point build right off the bat. Nor will they have direct access to +2 tomes by level 7.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musouka View Post
    You forgot some things that were commented on already. New guys aren't going to have 32 point build right off the bat. Nor will they have direct access to +2 tomes by level 7.
    I know and if you look at the con stat it shows in parenthesis the stat upgrade for 32 pt. talked to him in game and told him I could help him with it. This is the only forum I'm on that he has access to. support is in game.

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    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    I know and if you look at the con stat it shows in parenthesis the stat upgrade for 32 pt. talked to him in game and told him I could help him with it. This is the only forum I'm on that he has access to. support is in game.
    If this was specifically for one user, why didn't you use the Forum Private Message system?

    The parenthesis seem to be what you would do for TR, not what you would do for 28 point build, nor without tomes...
    Sarkiki - Orexis - Pallikaria - Epithymia - Musouka - Empnefsi | Cannith Server

  20. #20
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musouka View Post
    If this was specifically for one user, why didn't you use the Forum Private Message system?

    The parenthesis seem to be what you would do for TR, not what you would do for 28 point build, nor without tomes...
    F2P. I dont know what He has access to. It was the easiest route.

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