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  1. #21
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    Great build, I may give this a try!

  2. #22
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Would be better as a Lawful Neutral Male.

    Less distractions from guys in the group hitting on you.

    Other than that, great build.

    Oh, I agree with Thrud, not sure OC is worth 4 feats. Though, I cannot think of 4 feats that could increase you DPS more.
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
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  3. #23
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    Default those feats are not bad

    You have to remember he has to build up KI. I myself plan on using a staff for just this purpose while using those feats. Stunning Fist is great. But there are other ways to generate KI, like with staves and cleave/GC

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I'm not sure Overwhelming critical is worth 4 feats (3 of which are utterly worthless to you - Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave).

    Seems a real waste to not have Stunning Fist and a melee option with such a nice Wisdom score.
    RTFM on Khyber

  4. #24
    SithDDO Symerith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machination View Post
    Hey Sith, nice build I came across this looking at recent monkcher builds as thinking to TR my monk to one. Pretty sweet.
    Thanks RT

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    So you don't put down the bow when 10k stars and manyshot are on timer?

    Seems your average DPS drops quite a bit there during those times (40 seconds out of every 2 minutes). Of course, there's plenty of downtime in most dungeons running to the next encounter, so if you time things right, it's not that bad.

    I'm not sure Overwhelming critical is worth 4 feats (3 of which are utterly worthless to you - Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave).

    Seems a real waste to not have Stunning Fist and a melee option with such a nice Wisdom score.
    I never put down the bow.
    Pre-Epic Destinies, there were 2 reasons why most AAs would specialize for TWF:
    • First - AA's DPS was very low for the 40 seconds that you mentionned where 10kstars and manyshot were on timer. Therefore, it was good to be able to switch to melee weapons to deal decent damage. The truth is, manyshot or 10kstars is enough to clear any group of EE mobs. Add in the time to rebuff (get some tensers going, haste clickie (yeah I do haste myself for that sweet 2% extra speed ), heal scroll and run to the next group of mob, and the 40 secs really doesn't seem like much. Also, keep in mind you wouldn't have the Stunning fist DC for those EE mobs (not without diff. twists/Gear switching), so without CC options, you would take some nice damage in EE.
    • Second - because you needed to get ki back for 10kstars and shadow fade. There's enlightment now. Although taking it does sacrifice some DPS (I'm looking at you Critical Damage), it is awesome at what it does... regen your ki. There are situations where you will need to switch to melee weapons for a few seconds (long boss fights for ex) but other than that, is is enough for 10kstars.


    OC means 3 useless feats taken, but having OC means roughly 400 extra damage on an adrenaline shot. On an epic moment manyshot, we are looking at thousands and thousands of extra damage. With Combat archery only bringing in 2% dodge, I don't know anything better than +1 crit multiplier on a massive-critical damage platform to add DPS.
    Knowing there's no reason to specialize for some weak melee DPS anymore, 2 fighter splash gives you the extra feats for OC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    Would be better as a Lawful Neutral Male.

    Less distractions from guys in the group hitting on you.

    Other than that, great build.

    Oh, I agree with Thrud, not sure OC is worth 4 feats. Though, I cannot think of 4 feats that could increase you DPS more.
    I cannot either In fact, the damage OC gives you (~400 dmg on a single adrenaline arrow (non-pinned mob)) justifies 3 useless feats. The first thing that came to my mind when I first used the FotW epic moment + manyshot was: "Holy ****, how can I fit in OC here?". A shame Critical damage cannot be taken on this build but I'm happy with the twist setup (melange of DPS (Haste), CC (Pin) and Utility (Enlightment)).
    Last edited by Symerith; 01-21-2013 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Missing word

    Sithali-1 ~ 31/31 Lives ~ Completionist
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  5. #25
    SithDDO Symerith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machination View Post
    You have to remember he has to build up KI. I myself plan on using a staff for just this purpose while using those feats. Stunning Fist is great. But there are other ways to generate KI, like with staves and cleave/GC
    Still with those Staff builds haha

    From my experience, I only need to build up KI after 3 uses of 10Kstars (without shadow fade). That's of course with enlightment that will generate some ki while you do your 10Kstars->Manyshot->10kstars Combo.

    Brilliant idea actually, and it happens that all my Displace clickies are staves! Good deal

    Sithali-1 ~ 31/31 Lives ~ Completionist
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  6. #26
    Community Member korsat's Avatar
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    I think your build is the best full ranged (no melee) aa I know.

    I play a 12monk/6ranger/2fighter too with a similiar set up and I find fury the best ED as you do. But I haven't taken OC and the cleaves feats. 3 feats for +7% dps may worth it or not... I just prefer more flexibility, I'm using twf line ima, vorpal strike, ic:bludg and stunning fists. Why?

    Your 160 dmg/arrow is impressive but out of ms/10k this is not top dps. Sorry if I say this again, it's always the same story...

    So I'll ask...have you done the math for melee dps in earth3 using fury(maybe after a stun)? Touch of death, 6d6+5sneak attack with tunnel visions and sense weakness, 6% doublestrike at the monk speed. After a stun this means 150+ damage on normal hit and 500+ on a crit... And many times/second not like 2-3 arrows/sec. That's a huge difference also if it's just for 20-30 seconds every 2 mins. Remember that if you attack faster you regenerate fury faster and you can use fury more often. Also, the possibility to stun on EE quests with around 60 dc makes my aa an all round charachter when the party needs a bit more of cc.

    I'm not trying to convince you that going melee sometimes is the best solution but I would not say that full ranged is better than swap between the two mainly because math to verify this becomes very difficiult at this level, second because 90% of the players doesn't know how to play a full ranged toon(and doesnt have completionist and 3 ranger/monk pls), third because melee is fun sometimes and useful some other!

    I can say this because (apart from my experience) I have few clones on argon (that used my zendark post on forums to grind), some of them says they love the melee part of the build, someone else says that the build doesn't really need tr or more past lives to be top dps (ofc it helps but it's not crucial to make the build work).

    That's all I have to say, thanks for posting this, it was a very interesting reading and I'll wait for the vids

    Have you considered 2 arti instead of 2 fighter? You would only loose 1 feat (mental thoughness is not required with arti levels) to have full umd.
    Last edited by korsat; 01-22-2013 at 01:00 PM.

  7. #27
    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    The problem with mleeing is that mobs can hit you, and you loose time swapping weaons, then running to them. As archer you usually have more than one mob near you because you want to make IPS work, and on EE isnt not good to have some of them hitting you.

  8. #28
    Community Member Edamame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symerith View Post
    ENHANCEMENTS
    • HALF ELF Rogue Dillie (6), AA (4), Conjure +5 Arrows (4), Slayer Arrows (5), Human versatility IV (10), Wis (2), Con (4), Improved Balance I(1), Trap Sense I (1)
    • RANGER Ranger Sprint boost I (1), Favored Damage II (3)
    • MONK Dark Monk II (6), Static Charge (2), Improved Jump II (2), Improved Tumble II (2), Earth Stance II (5), Patient Tortoise II (3), Wind Stance I (2), 10k Stars (1), Wisdom III (10), Improved Recovery I (2)
    • FIGHTER Str I (2)

    Excuse my noobness, but how are you getting Conjure +5 and Slayer Arrows with only 6 levels of ranger?

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  9. #29
    The Hatchery Syllph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edamame View Post
    Excuse my noobness, but how are you getting Conjure +5 and Slayer Arrows with only 6 levels of ranger?

    E
    Elf gives access to Arcane Archer, only slightly delayed.

  10. #30
    Community Member Edamame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syllph View Post
    Elf gives access to Arcane Archer, only slightly delayed.
    Thank you!!!

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  11. #31
    Community Member boredman's Avatar
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    Nice build.

  12. #32
    Community Member rabrams99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symerith View Post
    Thanks RT




    OC means 3 useless feats taken, but having OC means roughly 400 extra damage on an adrenaline shot. On an epic moment manyshot, we are looking at thousands and thousands of extra damage. With Combat archery only bringing in 2% dodge, I don't know anything better than +1 crit multiplier on a massive-critical damage platform to add DPS.
    Knowing there's no reason to specialize for some weak melee DPS anymore, 2 fighter splash gives you the extra feats for OC.

    )).
    Combat Archery

    Passive

    Your 'Point Blank Shot'bonus is increased by +1[W]. You also gain 2% dodge bonus when using a ranged weapon.

    Isnt the +1[W] a really big deal, or am I missing something about damage calculations?
    Thando, Aarag, Keallen, Kuthroat, Sureshott, Skullcrusher

  13. #33
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabrams99 View Post
    Combat Archery

    Passive

    Your 'Point Blank Shot'bonus is increased by +1[W]. You also gain 2% dodge bonus when using a ranged weapon.

    Isnt the +1[W] a really big deal, or am I missing something about damage calculations?
    Considering it doesn't even work? It's pretty useless.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  14. #34
    Community Member rabrams99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Considering it doesn't even work? It's pretty useless.
    can we assume for the sake of this dps disscussion that it does?
    Thando, Aarag, Keallen, Kuthroat, Sureshott, Skullcrusher

  15. #35
    Community Member Raoull's Avatar
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    A bit surprised to see Fury in here as a great option. When I played with it, I found Adrenline to be a complete waste of time, although I wasn't using a bow. Basically, it seemed the time you spent using adreneline means the attacks you didn't make wasted as much damage as you gained. That said... I did it on a monk, so it could just be horrible with wraps and instant with real weapons.

    So even assuming Adreline works like my instinct think it should (like a monk strike, not interupting your attack chain), I still wonder where you actually regain it from..... Reading the wiki seems to imply that the only wait to regain Adreline charges is making vorpal strikes with melee weapons. Is the "melee" part of that incorrect? (It says the same thing for Fury counters....)
    Cannith Server :Vice Sovereign of The Guild of Calamitous Intent

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  16. #36
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabrams99 View Post
    can we assume for the sake of this dps disscussion that it does?
    No. Pretending something that isn't functioning is working in order to making a point that what's broken is better than what's not is a worthless endeavor. That's not to say Combat Archery would be a bad feat if it DID work - an extra 2d6 bow damage would be nice - but you can't assume as if it was functioning when it has been broken since release, with no fix in sight (not in u17 at all, from what I can tell...and wouldn't surprise me if u18 passes without it being fixed).

    However, even if you did, overwhelming critical and combat archery are not mutually exclusive - it just requires more of a juggle (and +5 tome in either str or dex).

    Side-note, fury doesn't mesh as well with monks - in my experience (and I've seen it elsewhere on here), adrenaline doesn't affect the crit-range for monks, denying you the best benefit. Since u16, though, it's worked fantastically (and correctly) with bows - the only problem is that the descriptions are still borked and report that many fury abilities only work with melee, which is completely wrong.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  17. #37
    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoull View Post
    A bit surprised to see Fury in here as a great option. When I played with it, I found Adrenline to be a complete waste of time, although I wasn't using a bow. Basically, it seemed the time you spent using adreneline means the attacks you didn't make wasted as much damage as you gained. That said... I did it on a monk, so it could just be horrible with wraps and instant with real weapons.

    So even assuming Adreline works like my instinct think it should (like a monk strike, not interupting your attack chain), I still wonder where you actually regain it from..... Reading the wiki seems to imply that the only wait to regain Adreline charges is making vorpal strikes with melee weapons. Is the "melee" part of that incorrect? (It says the same thing for Fury counters....)
    watch the video of symerith killing sobrien in 7 secs, its in her sig (youtube channel), youll understand.

  18. #38
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    The Fury Eternal vorpal strike adrenaline recovery and
    epic moment charge up works with unarmed as of a few
    days ago, ditto for bows while in a monk stance.

    Adrenaline stops a wrap user for like forever while
    activating it. I don’t recall if the epic moment or
    knockdown powers work with wraps as manyshotting
    for a bajillion points of damage is way too much fun.

    I’ll try to remember tonight to verify how adrenaline
    works with wraps.

  19. #39
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    I have a question, specifically about your haste boost twist from LD.
    Don't your two fighter levels (access to fighter haste I) lock you out of this? Or is it something where you can put points in on a previous life, TR, and still have access to the haste boost?
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  20. #40
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandypaws View Post
    I have a question, specifically about your haste boost twist from LD.
    Don't your two fighter levels (access to fighter haste I) lock you out of this? Or is it something where you can put points in on a previous life, TR, and still have access to the haste boost?
    You're only locked out of it if you spend AP on the Fighter Haste Boost 1.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

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