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  1. #1
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    Jan 2010
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    Default Please comment my Rogue TR build

    In a few days I will TR my Fighter into a Dex based Rogue.

    Goals for my Rogue life:
    level up to at least to 20 and stay there until I have
    - farmed 20 dungeon tokens
    - capped 1 additional Epic Destiny
    - I have done 20 shroud runs
    I don't want to invest heavily in farming gear
    - In early levels I will use my Carniflex and maybe my MinII Greataxe
    - At lv 16 I will use 2 Envenomed Blades
    - Maybe I will try to get 2 Sky Pirate's Daggers from 3 Barrel Cove
    - At 18 I will use the Tinker's Finesse set

    Questions I have:
    Is the ability distribution Ok or should I move points from STR to DEX or INT?
    Which skills are important?
    - For sure I have to cap DD, OL, Search, Spot, Balance, UMD.
    - But what about Move Silently, Hide, Bluff and Diplomacy. Which is one important and which I could ignore?


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Darri 5 Rogue DEX
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 260
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             15                    18
    Dexterity            16                    26
    Constitution         15                    17
    Intelligence         16                    22
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    31
    Bluff                 3                    30
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy             0                     1
    Disable Device        7                    29
    Haggle                3                    23
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                  4                    36
    Intimidate           -1                     2
    Jump                  6                    27
    Listen                0                    14
    Move Silently         4                    36
    Open Lock             7                    31
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                3                     6
    Search                7                    29
    Spot                  3                    23
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                7                    12
    Use Magic Device      3                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Intelligence I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Improved Bluff I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide II
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II

  2. #2
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Default

    How do you plan on dealing with agro? Do you have an improved deception item? rad II weapon?

    The difference in dps, between sneak attacks and no sneak attacks is huge, HUGE!

    If you enjoy the run in and smash everything playstyle, then splash monk, take stunning fist and stunning blow.

    No need to grind gear, you would do more dps on a stunned mob with a scroll in your hand than if you had agro and a minII great axe.

  3. #3
    Community Member .Revenga.'s Avatar
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    Dec 2009
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    315

    Default

    Seems like you won't be staying a rogue for such a long time.

    I'd stronly adivise going str based instead of dex as it will allow a much easier leveling process (I tend to solo alot on TR's, means aggro, means str).
    Also you can use any weapon you like (like your MinII axe).

    With the barb past life you actually loose some hitpoints, in return you get the 30sec rage which is pretty useless on a rogue.

    You're skills are fine, take bluff over diplo if you need to choose, haggle doenst hurt etc
    Triumore - Triu - Broktar
    Mitis Mors

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    How do you plan on dealing with agro? Do you have an improved deception item? rad II weapon?

    The difference in dps, between sneak attacks and no sneak attacks is huge, HUGE!

    If you enjoy the run in and smash everything playstyle, then splash monk, take stunning fist and stunning blow.

    No need to grind gear, you would do more dps on a stunned mob with a scroll in your hand than if you had agro and a minII great axe.
    I can craft deception items and later on I can use my Golden Guile.

    Most of the time I play in groups, therefore there should be somebody else who has the aggro. I know, this will be challenging, but I also want to learn to play a pure rogue in this life.
    Nevertheless, i will think about Stunning Blow. With +2 DC from my Fighter past lifes it should work.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .Revenga. View Post
    Seems like you won't be staying a rogue for such a long time.

    I'd stronly adivise going str based instead of dex as it will allow a much easier leveling process (I tend to solo alot on TR's, means aggro, means str).
    Also you can use any weapon you like (like your MinII axe).

    With the barb past life you actually loose some hitpoints, in return you get the 30sec rage which is pretty useless on a rogue.

    You're skills are fine, take bluff over diplo if you need to choose, haggle doenst hurt etc
    I take the Barbarian Past life mainly because I will get the +20 hit points immediately at lv 3.
    STR based is another option I considered. Currently I have a Fighter with 2 rogue levels. Going STR based would mean, I could use nearly the same gear than before. I will think about this option again.

    Regarding the skills, are move silently and hide usefull e.g. to assassinate or should I dump them.

  6. #6
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Default

    There are two good reasons to put points in Dex: to get GTWF (17), and to get Improved Sneak Attack (21, epic feat). Any spare points beyond that are superfluous and will be more useful in Int or Str. In the planner you have a base Dex of 24, so moving points around a bit is warranted. I recommend leaving your starting distribution, but putting your first three level-ups into Str (and your level 24 if you get that high). For a permanent rogue I would recommend Int, but that does not appear to be your goal. That leaves you with 16 + 3 tome + 2 level-ups = 21 Dex, perfect. The Sky Pirate's Dagger is really cool but you don't want to be using a +1 khopesh at higher levels. Similar story with the Envenomed Blade, it has its niches but if you're stuck with it it's not very enthusing. A +3 Holy of Bleed is pretty easy to craft, and will serve you very well on a rapier.

    You will be very happy if you trade Rogue Damage Boost 3 and 4 for Rogue Haste Boost 3. RHB + HDB = good times.

    I also think you will be happier moving to TWF faster than most melee builds, especially if you're mostly in groups. Rogue sneak attack damage adds up very quickly.

    MS/Hide can be useful for surgical Assassinations, and while those are relatively rare I don't see any other skill crying out to be spent on.

  7. #7
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    If you get the Sky-Pirate's Dagger and/or Tiefling Assassin's Blades (or Midnight Greetings albeit with lower damage) you will do more damage with less STR and can conceivably run with 10 STR/18 DEX.

    However, you will be very restricted on being able to do much damage with anything else. Sky-Pirate's is awesome though. It's a min-level 4 that has the crit profile of a keen khopesh.

    However, there aren't many of the STR/DEX weapons in the game and nothing particularly good vs. undead. I'm leveling a 32-pt Assassin built around max INT/DEX for assassinate DC's. So, 2WF and most of the STR/DEX weapons so far. I do lots of damage melee with or without sneak attack damage because of the STR/DEX weapons I have but I have to grind through DR. The only weapon I have that might (partially) break DR is Staff of Nat Gann (Also STR/DEX) with Silver on it. Otherwise, I'm just trying to bluff and deception them to (untyped?) sneak attack damage vs. DR.

    If you're mainly STR based, don't bother with Sky-Pirate's unless you want one for the plain old critical profile.

  8. #8
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    Default Moved some points to STR

    Thanks to all who have given me some hints.

    I have moved some points from DEX and INT to STR. I totaly missed the DR problem, I will run into with the pure DEX build. With more STR, my MinII Greataxe may solve that problem in most cases.
    CON is not even, because I have an +1 exceptional CON item to get an even number.



    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Darri 5 Rogue STR
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 260
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity            16                    22
    Constitution         15                    17
    Intelligence         15                    20
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    29
    Bluff                 3                    29
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy             3                    23
    Disable Device        6                    28
    Haggle                2                    23
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                  3                    27
    Intimidate           -1                     2
    Jump                  7                    30
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently         3                    26
    Open Lock             7                    29
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                2                     5
    Search                6                    28
    Spot                  3                    23
    Swim                  3                     7
    Tumble                4                     7
    Use Magic Device      3                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Improved Hide I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide II
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II

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