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  1. #41
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ormsbygore View Post
    White - Basically it's in the same situation as the blue, redundant tank based effects, not bad...but not the "Ooo! Shiney!" everyone is looking for. Not going to repeat.

    -- Suggestion:
    ----- Hardened Scales(defensive bonus guard): (small%)5% chance on being hit, gain (small# eNAC or % AC)+2 Exceptional NAC and (small#)+2 PRR for 30 seconds.[Stackable 5-10x?(would be +10-20 eNAC and +10-20 PRR, once max stack is reached, can't proc for another 60-120 seconds?)...if not then increase the bonus received and duration]
    I have to agree that the white is a little underwhelming with the Shield bonus. Unless it is a stacking shield bonus, it's practically redundant for any Shield using tank. It's a little nice for a TWF/THF tanking build, but that's about it.
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  2. #42
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musouka View Post
    I have to agree that the white is a little underwhelming with the Shield bonus. Unless it is a stacking shield bonus, it's practically redundant for any Shield using tank. It's a little nice for a TWF/THF tanking build, but that's about it.
    White could be good for monks/monktanks, being that they can't use shields, but that would just be the robe, not so much for the others.

  3. #43
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saravis View Post
    White could be good for monks/monktanks, being that they can't use shields, but that would just be the robe, not so much for the others.
    Even if it you're getting the full +6 that just doesn't mean much endgame. Less than 1% more miss chance in EE, maybe 2-3% in EH best case.

    And even for non shield users it's just +2 over easy to keep up shield wands (5min/lvl now, I often keep it up I just for the MM defense).
    Last edited by Dolphious; 01-19-2013 at 02:57 PM.
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  4. #44
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Allegiance looks unimpressive, but as far as I can tell, it deals damage which is comparable to Balizarde, but only to Elves and with IC:Slash.

    How OP would Allegiance be if it had something between Greater Elf Bane (+4 enh and 3d6) and Epic Elf Bane (+8 enh and 6d6), or the latter, actually?
    It should just get Epic Bane.
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  5. #45
    Community Member BlackSteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    It should just get Epic Bane.
    epic bane and axoimatic burst would make it worthy of swapping to for beating on elves. considering the name, some lawful damage would be fitting
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  6. #46
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    For instance, compare the Giantcraft Siberyis Compass to the Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass.
    Compass Spyglass
    Search +20 || Search +20
    True Seeing || True Seeing
    Green Slot || Green Slot
    Yellow Slot || ----
    (pre-slotted w/
    purchasable
    +7 resist) || ----
    ---- || Spot +20
    ---- || Insightful Int +2
    ---- || UMD (enhancement) +3
    Last edited by sephiroth1084; 01-19-2013 at 04:51 PM.
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  7. #47
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Wow, a lot of this looks great. I'm particularly excited by the blue dragonscale armor for my artie, and the new rune arms.

    But, there are no crossbows! For artificer's, the only named xbow in epic is Needle. It would be very nice to have a choice of weapons.

  8. #48
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Not sure if you consider the new dragonscale armors to be raid loot (as they require Commendations of Heroism) or quest loot (as the scales drop from Tor) but here's my thoughts. Firstly I note that there's no upgrade tiers for these (or the other Commendation of Heroism dragonscale armors) - is this intended?


    Item power considerations:

    White:
    The AC benefits are not as valuable as you seem to consider them.
    Player deaths are caused more by spike damage than by sustained damage at current endgame. And this armor does nothing much at all to mitigate the main sources of spike damage - crits or sneak attacks that penetrate fortification, spell damage and similar effects like dragon breath. 50hp is valuable but I think most players would prefer exceptional fortification.

    How I'd have designed this one:
    +7 (optional upgrade to +8 via commendations of heroism)
    Heavy Fortification
    50% Exceptional Fortification
    Protection 7
    Superior Cold Resistance (optional upgrade to Sovereign via comms)
    20% Cold Absorb (more for flavour reasons, but it would be legitimately useful in Fall of Truth)
    Blue Slot
    (Keep the set bonus on top of that if you want this to be a great item, not just a good one).


    Black:
    This one's actually pretty solid and will likely be used a fair amount.
    Again I'd consider adding 20% acid absorb and an optional upgrade to +8 and Sovereign resistance but this will be used regardless.


    Blue:
    You overvalue Potency 80 and here it shows.
    Arcane casters can use a ring slot (Epic Ring of Elemental Essence) to get an effect that is generally better than this for boosting their off elements. Divines tend not to cast spells from all that many different elements (almost everything is healing, light or force with just a handful of seldom used fire or negative spells) so it's not so great for them either. Likewise Greater Arcane Lore - Lore effects don't do much unless you can back them up with spell crit enhancements too, and players usually only have those in at most two elements, and they'll usually slot Superior Lore for those elements.
    This item has a very solid set bonus and not much else going for it other than the Greater Spell Pen 9. I don't see many people swapping out of their Spidersilk Robes for this unless it is improved somewhat.
    If you add Commendation based upgrades, adding the option to add a Superior Lore of your choice at tier 2 and then to upgrade that to a Sovereign Lore (15% crit chance/0.50 crit intensity) would make this at least interesting and unique.


    Drop rates: These are massively higher than green scales (indication is that they are the same as heroic scales). Given people will be running Tor a lot for named items, there will be an enormous number of scales in the economy. The high drop rate for heroic scales makes a lot of sense as people don't run heroic Tor much (you quickly level past it) but epics last for much longer - at present I envisage Tor scales quickly becoming like Large Bones, with heaps of them in circulation but little demand as you can't use them without the somewhat rarer Commendations of Heroism. (Comms are a lot more common post update but will still be the limiting factor here).

    Presently one ransack of EE Tor will get you enough scales to make all three armors without trading, and a group of six that ransacks EH will probably get enough to make 10 armors between them. By contrast one ransack of EE Don't Drink the Water gets you personally around 2 or so of your twenty scales and the whole group maybe 10-15 scales.

    I'm not suggesting a super-low drop rate, but 15%/20%/40%/100% for one scale (EC/EN/EH/EE) would ameliorate this issue and ensure there's some demand for scales after the first two weeks.
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  9. #49
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Not sure if you consider the new dragonscale armors to be raid loot (as they require Commendations of Heroism) or quest loot (as the scales drop from Tor) but here's my thoughts. Firstly I note that there's no upgrade tiers for these (or the other Commendation of Heroism dragonscale armors) - is this intended?


    Item power considerations:

    White:
    The AC benefits are not as valuable as you seem to consider them.
    Player deaths are caused more by spike damage than by sustained damage at current endgame. And this armor does nothing much at all to mitigate the main sources of spike damage - crits or sneak attacks that penetrate fortification, spell damage and similar effects like dragon breath. 50hp is valuable but I think most players would prefer exceptional fortification.

    How I'd have designed this one:
    +7 (optional upgrade to +8 via commendations of heroism)
    Heavy Fortification
    50% Exceptional Fortification
    Protection 7
    Superior Cold Resistance (optional upgrade to Sovereign via comms)
    20% Cold Absorb (more for flavour reasons, but it would be legitimately useful in Fall of Truth)
    Blue Slot
    (Keep the set bonus on top of that if you want this to be a great item, not just a good one).
    I agree with this assessment. Sheltering would still be worthwhile here, I think, and possibly an additional AC bonus--even the Shield AC bonus on top of that would be worth keeping around to give the non-S&Bers a little extra.

    Black:
    This one's actually pretty solid and will likely be used a fair amount.
    Again I'd consider adding 20% acid absorb and an optional upgrade to +8 and Sovereign resistance but this will be used regardless.
    I think the set bonus should provide a much bigger buff to ranged combat than it does currently. Melee is getting a double-strike bonus while ranged is getting a fairly small boost to static damage? That hardly seems fair.

    Blue:
    You overvalue Potency 80 and here it shows.
    Arcane casters can use a ring slot (Epic Ring of Elemental Essence) to get an effect that is generally better than this for boosting their off elements. Divines tend not to cast spells from all that many different elements (almost everything is healing, light or force with just a handful of seldom used fire or negative spells) so it's not so great for them either. Likewise Greater Arcane Lore - Lore effects don't do much unless you can back them up with spell crit enhancements too, and players usually only have those in at most two elements, and they'll usually slot Superior Lore for those elements.
    This item has a very solid set bonus and not much else going for it other than the Greater Spell Pen 9. I don't see many people swapping out of their Spidersilk Robes for this unless it is improved somewhat.
    If you add Commendation based upgrades, adding the option to add a Superior Lore of your choice at tier 2 and then to upgrade that to a Sovereign Lore (15% crit chance/0.50 crit intensity) would make this at least interesting and unique.
    I think it would be reasonable for this to grant Major Arcane Lore, and maybe Arcane Augmentation IX (or rather, a similar effect that works on divine spells as well as arcane ones), even if it requires upgrading to obtain. We've had GAL for what? 5 years? And ELEVEN levels above the cap at which it was originally available. I think it's time to improve upon that a bit.

    Otherwise, I agree with your comments here. Potency 80 is junk.
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  10. #50
    Hatchery Founder Glenalth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I think the set bonus should provide a much bigger buff to ranged combat than it does currently. Melee is getting a double-strike bonus while ranged is getting a fairly small boost to static damage?
    While it is a small boost, it probably would be more than a 3% increase in base weapon damage for a lot of archers and throwing builds.

    The real issue is that it leaves out all of the procs and additional damage sources that ranged characters rely on that the 3% doublestrike would have given if it were applicable to ranged combat.

    FoS: Is there any way to change this to a 5%ish damage increase for ranged to compensate a bit for the difference between attack speed increases and weapon damage increases? It doesn't solve the problem entirely, but I get the feeling that you don't want to add another stacking alacrity effect to ranged.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenalth View Post
    FoS: Is there any way to change this to a 5%ish damage increase for ranged to compensate a bit for the difference between attack speed increases and weapon damage increases? It doesn't solve the problem entirely, but I get the feeling that you don't want to add another stacking alacrity effect to ranged.
    More likely:

    FoS: Is there any way we can get a comparison between you and us? A some kind of brainstorming? Is there any way some of the items will have something changed before the live version?

    Please, do not answer with the typical "Yes, everything is subject to change before live". While that sentence is nice, 99% of the cases it's not what happened before. I - WE want to know if there is a CONCRETE possibility.

  12. #52
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenalth View Post
    While it is a small boost, it probably would be more than a 3% increase in base weapon damage for a lot of archers and throwing builds.
    That's a factor of how poor archery DPS is still, not of a comparison between the gains the melees are getting to that of the archers.

    Primary melee DPSers are getting well over 100 damage a swing, which means that a 3% double-strike chance is looking at a minimum of +3 equivalent damage, and is more likely considerably more, and that's before accounting for special on-hit procs.

    I'd say that the least that could be done for archers would be to give them a flat +4 or +5 damage bonus, which is somewhat comparable to the damage portion of the double-strike bonus melees are getting.

    That said, I'd rather archers get a stacking 3-5% attack speed bonus. Melees are swinging faster (excluding Manyshot) and hitting for more damage per swing. Mind you, I don't believe archers should be even DPS with dedicated melee, but they should be close enough that using a bow when not Manyshotting or 10K Starsing doesn't feel like you're essentially going AFK for 30 seconds as far as your party is concerned.
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  13. #53
    Community Member fyrst.grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Mostly aggree on these armors


    Drop rates: These are massively higher than green scales (indication is that they are the same as heroic scales). Given people will be running Tor a lot for named items, there will be an enormous number of scales in the economy. The high drop rate for heroic scales makes a lot of sense as people don't run heroic Tor much (you quickly level past it) but epics last for much longer - at present I envisage Tor scales quickly becoming like Large Bones, with heaps of them in circulation but little demand as you can't use them without the somewhat rarer Commendations of Heroism. (Comms are a lot more common post update but will still be the limiting factor here).

    Presently one ransack of EE Tor will get you enough scales to make all three armors without trading, and a group of six that ransacks EH will probably get enough to make 10 armors between them. By contrast one ransack of EE Don't Drink the Water gets you personally around 2 or so of your twenty scales and the whole group maybe 10-15 scales.

    I'm not suggesting a super-low drop rate, but 15%/20%/40%/100% for one scale (EC/EN/EH/EE) would ameliorate this issue and ensure there's some demand for scales after the first two weeks.
    This may be true on Khyber but on Orien you almost never see any EE lfm's. Dropping the rates so low will probably mean only elite gamers in elite guilds will get one. And grinding a quest is NOT fun for anyone.

    Theres should IMO also be a chance for the rest of us mortals who will have to rely on pugs and shortmanning quests/raids because of european timezone and not so epic focused guilds.

    For instance I have yet to try CitW as the only groups I see is when I am about to go to bed.

  14. #54
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default Allegiance missing DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSteel View Post
    epic bane and axoimatic burst would make it worthy of swapping to for beating on elves. considering the name, some lawful damage would be fitting
    Agreed. Absolute law (and particularly epic elf bane) would give Allegiance a much more desirable profile.

    As it stands, it has very good base damage going for it but almost nothing else. Other items like eSoS and eAntique have both great base damage and a lot of other things going for it.

    At least with axiomatic/absolute law, Allegiance could be configured to break some two-component DR. Right now it looks even more crappy than the craptacular Ironwood Khopesh.
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  15. #55
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
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    Am I right that not a single one of these new items has either healing amp or exceptional fort on it?
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  16. #56
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default Well-stated regarding dragonscale armors

    Quote Originally Posted by ormsbygore View Post
    #2 - I'm kinda disappointed that the Dragon Helms don't have Breath Weapon clickies anymore. It would be really cool, if for nothing else but a role play factor or nostalgia, to have a 3-5 charge breath weapon clickie(maybe a toned down version of the Dragon Breath ability from the Sorc ED) that refreshes a charge every minute or so.
    Agreed. Even if the clicky isn't much damage, it'd be nice to have. I routinely use the scorched bracers and wind howler bracers, and the latter in particular is nice for clearing fogs and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by ormsbygore View Post
    #3 - Dragonscale Armors...I can't say much that others haven't, but I'll add my 2cp. First thing I'd like to note is they have a higher ML(minimum level), but are either on par or not as good as the Cormyrian Green/Red armors, in my opinion.
    True. I hope better mods are added to justify this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ormsbygore View Post
    I believe it, and the white armor, should have a unique effect similar to the black armor.
    YES.

    Quote Originally Posted by ormsbygore View Post
    ----- Arcane Resurgence(spell point conservation proc): (small%)5% chance on casting a spell, regenerate (small%)3-8% SP over 30 seconds.(doesn't stack if recast, just resets timer)
    Like this, but I already think arcanes have a lot of power over melees that will only be compounded by another way to regain SP. Blue does need something unique like black scale, as you said, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by ormsbygore View Post
    ----- Hardened Scales(defensive bonus guard): (small%)5% chance on being hit, gain (small# eNAC or % AC)+2 Exceptional NAC and (small#)+2 PRR for 30 seconds.[Stackable 5-10x?(would be +10-20 eNAC and +10-20 PRR, once max stack is reached, can't proc for another 60-120 seconds?)...if not then increase the bonus received and duration]
    Neat. White scale is better than blue because it at least does offer something new and slightly better for a very small amount of builds. It's still inferior than black, however, as the black scale offers something new and good for every character that deals physical damage.

    White should be more competitive by granting something special to your defense that you can't get elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by ormsbygore View Post
    Just for a comparison:
    VoN Red Armor - (ML: 20) +8, 6 different effects, 2 slots
    Cormyrian Red/Green Armors - (ML: 23) +9, 6 different effects, no slots
    GH Black/Blue/White Armors - (ML: 25) +7, 4 different effects, 1 set bonus effect(requires second item), 1 slot

    That comparison right there just doesn't add up...
    If nothing else, give them another +1 and another effect, to be on par with the existing epic dragonscale armors.
    Yes. Or at least make one of the existing 4 effects for the GH armors truly desirable and novel. Black scale has it right there.
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  17. #57
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrst.grok View Post
    This may be true on Khyber but on Orien you almost never see any EE lfm's. Dropping the rates so low will probably mean only elite gamers in elite guilds will get one. And grinding a quest is NOT fun for anyone.

    Theres should IMO also be a chance for the rest of us mortals who will have to rely on pugs and shortmanning quests/raids because of european timezone and not so epic focused guilds.

    For instance I have yet to try CitW as the only groups I see is when I am about to go to bed.
    The drop rates for Gianthold scales were around 25/30% (all difficulties) when the level cap was 14. You needed 25 of them. And still you saw a lot of PUG-only players wearing them, and dozens of cheap scales on the AH.

    The reason - people traded for the scales they wanted. They'd clear out all three dragons, then swap their unwanted scales to other players.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  18. #58
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    nm
    Last edited by Carpone; 01-20-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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  19. #59
    Community Member fyrst.grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    The drop rates for Gianthold scales were around 25/30% (all difficulties) when the level cap was 14. You needed 25 of them. And still you saw a lot of PUG-only players wearing them, and dozens of cheap scales on the AH.

    The reason - people traded for the scales they wanted. They'd clear out all three dragons, then swap their unwanted scales to other players.
    I don't doubt that on Khyber, but I'm still talking about different timezones and difficulties of getting a pug. And while this might go on during US primetime it is much more troublesome during european times.

    I may have misunderstood you tho.. when you say '15%/20%/40%/100%' is that the chance of getting any scales at all or getting multiple?
    Because I believe theres already a greater chance of getting more scales at EE. Granted the difficulty is much higher. I honestly don't mind it being close to the heroic droprate. Maybe scaled down a bit. I DO think less than 50% chance on eh is too little.
    Mainly because I despise the grind on grind on grind. Had more than enough of that gettin my esos, abashai and claw set.

    We still need the commendations anyway and nothing wrong with some more cheap stuff on the ah IMO.

  20. #60
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default Feather, why not preserve flavor?

    Gloves of Forgotten Craft
    ML25: Disable Device 20, Dexterity +8, Attack Bonus +4, Empty Green Augment Slot, Empty Yellow Augment Slot

    Now, I truly appreciate you trying to make a niche item better for the general populace, but I think that this item was a step in the wrong direction.

    It was the perfect opportunity for you to give a *completely ignored* type of combat--throwing weapons--a revitalized look from the player base.

    All you would have to do is give some kind of throwing weapon-only DPS mutation, i.e. "Forgotten craft: critical threat range for throwing weapons increased by 1" or "+4 to all throwing weapon damage" (completely plausible since even a completely tripped-out-gear character with completionist using 10k stars to throw shurikens probably won't even come close to the dps potential of a first life arcane archer).

    We have an overabundance of gloves that grant skill bonuses to trapsmithing, dexterity, and attack bonus: why not keep these gloves as a possible avenue for making an entire class of combat less gimped?

    Please?
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