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  1. #81
    Hero thesnoman's Avatar
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    Default Imho... ... ...

    OK so I haven't had time to play with all of my currently slotted items and change them over to the new slots, but here's my thoughts:

    ~ Toughness is coming back - albeit as a named augment - but it is coming back - so you just keep your currently slotted toughness item until you get a new "Named" toughness augment crystal - no biggie there, just seems a bit grindy. Would like to see this in U17 instead of making us wait until U18

    ~ GFL (Yellow) is gone and has been replaced by +5/+10/+15/+20/+25/+30/+35 HP (Blue). The question is...will GFL come back as a named (Yellow) crystal and do the new HP (Blue) augments stack with GFL?

    ~ Would like to see healing amp augments as has been previously stated. Would like to see the same denominations as are currently available so they don't add the the already ridiculous healing amp possible with certain builds

    ~ Would like to see Blur, Dodge 1%/2%/3%, and several others that seem to be missing from the list. Perhaps they will also make appearances as "Named" augment crystals?

    ~I think the +114 SP slots are nice for melee/caster hybrids, but will likely not be used much by pure casters unless they need a specific splash they just can't seem to find in the +120 variety.

    ~Would like to see the +1dx Elemental damage per hit bumped a bit, perhaps as follows:
    NoML: 1d2 (1-2)
    ML 4: 1d4 (1-4)
    ML 8: 1d6 (1-6)
    ML 12: 2d4 (2-8)
    ML 16: 2d6 (2-12)
    ML 20: 3d6 (3-18)
    ML 24: 4d6 (4-24)

    This would make the additional damage much more EPIC without throwing too much balance out.

    ~ +10% Exceptional Fort as a ML 20 or ML 24 augment would be great.

    There were a few others I forgot to write down, but these are the biggies. Overall, it looks like a good system - and as a player that isn't min/max and doesn't use guild augments (although I might be stockpiling them now) I think it is a great move toward players really being able to customize their gear and make more unique builds without the need to grind for specific gear.
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  2. #82
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Agree. Because of the way they multiply themselves, the more heal amp you have, the more valuable heal amp becomes.

    They need to change the math there, so heal amp is aditive instead of multiplicative. And then give bonus type to heal amp equipments. Like what they did with Spellpower compared to the old spell damage rule. So that they can add 35~50% heal amp items, or more heal amp enhancements to high-HP classes without the fear that it will combo in itself to fully heal a raged barbarian with a cure light potion.
    Ack! No, no, no. The last thing we need is more "everyone is OK at it" stuff. H amp is great the way it is. You can focus on it (sacrificing other stuff) and do special and interesting things, or you can not and still do just fine with the bigger sources of healing. Let's not turn a interesting system into another everyone is the same non-system because ppl are jealous of the H amp of some specialized builds.
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  3. #83
    Community Member Ovrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphious View Post
    Ack! No, no, no. The last thing we need is more "everyone is OK at it" stuff. H amp is great the way it is. You can focus on it (sacrificing other stuff) and do special and interesting things, or you can not and still do just fine with the bigger sources of healing. Let's not turn a interesting system into another everyone is the same non-system because ppl are jealous of the H amp of some specialized builds.
    Agreed, the AC pass already made everyone average. What this game needs is more specialization, not less.

  4. #84
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    There's only one single +HP augment slot. Fitting in both high healing amp and high HP is by no means a tall order.
    .
    This is why we need lots of choices for these slots.
    Not 1 or 2 viable ones, but many good choices.

    Do you slot HP, heal Amp, Dodge, Guards, Saves, Stats, Skills,Spell Power, Reconstruction Amp....

    What best suits your playstyle or augments a perceived weakness...
    If we dont have the versatility then everything becomes pideon-holed or ignored.



    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    The point is, adding new denominations for healing amp is not going to happen. Monks can easily get over 350% healing amp already, so they'd get massive benefits from more, smaller denominations of hamp, while people who have little healing amp will get very little benefit from new denominations. I forgot what the absolute maximum amount of healing amp is but I believe it's well over 600%, and only because it stacks multiplicatively. .

    The 600% healing amp... it comes with a price, investing into the multi-classes, enhancements, gear...
    600% healing amp doesnt mean anything when you are dead because you didnt invest enough into hp, or saves or the fight took so long that you spent more time healing yourself than trying to kill stuff with low dps.

    Diminishing returns... at some point the heal amp benefit will outweigh the investment..

    Just because someone posts about a toon that has 600%heal amp , or boosted 100STR, or 2500HP, or 5000SP... etc...
    Glass Cannons, Meatshields, Swinging wet noodles, Ding~bots,etc..
    These are not viable playable characters they gimped themselves to unbalance the scale.

    As players heading into endgame we will find a optimal point between survivability, DPS, Durability, Endurance....
    Items that give us a self perceived benefit will be hunted, those that dont..rot in the quest.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    It's just not going to happen.

    The whole point of getting better gear and slots and crafting..... to increase what we have into more places...
    If something new isn't better that what we have why would we change what we have.
    Even if it is only marginally better.. a small tweak here, there, less gear swapping, combine 2 items onto 1 item frees up a spot to add more ....

    It has to happen or why bother running new stuff more than one for favor.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 01-21-2013 at 01:46 PM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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  5. #85
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default Isn't it obvious yall or am I just all tin-foil-hat-mad

    This new system seems at first glance to be a nifty idea but falls short of being amazing by a country mile.

    Makeno mistakes about it. They are watering down the current power creep by dazzling us with some convienient slotting options but by and large will ultimately be a nerf to character power.

    Guild slots being removed from loot tables ensures one less source of stacking (real increase in power).

    The ole carny switch-a-roo with the colored slots and what can go in them.

    Taking sutff we now have in game and can slot with some work and making it absent until a later date (and more than likely a higher Min Level (Toughness I'm looking at you)

    I know what you are up to.

    You actually are doing everything in your power as game developers to water down player gearing options with this new system.
    I am often cynical and say mean things. It's a WAI "Feature".

  6. #86
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    I still have not heard if you need to be in a guild to have Augments. I would assume no since there doesn't seem to be anything more than a level requirement on test. IMO, the answer to this is going to be a moment of truth for the zerg recruit guilds that are constantly spam recruiting in harbor on live. No more large slots means no more reason to feel enslaved to a guild simply because it has a high level and lets you slot those awesome SP or HP augments.

    On the other hand.. there is no more 15/30/60sp "bonus" per slot.. For a low level caster being able to strip down a large and drop in an SP gem in an otherwise unused slot was pretty handy for leveling. Even more so if you were able to do it for 4 slots.

  7. #87
    Hatchery Founder Glenalth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralthyrtiaq View Post
    This new system seems at first glance to be a nifty idea but falls short of being amazing by a country mile.

    Makeno mistakes about it. They are watering down the current power creep by dazzling us with some convienient slotting options but by and large will ultimately be a nerf to character power.

    Guild slots being removed from loot tables ensures one less source of stacking (real increase in power).

    The ole carny switch-a-roo with the colored slots and what can go in them.

    Taking sutff we now have in game and can slot with some work and making it absent until a later date (and more than likely a higher Min Level (Toughness I'm looking at you)

    I know what you are up to.

    You actually are doing everything in your power as game developers to water down player gearing options with this new system.
    Re: your title, Break out the restaurant grade foil.

    If they were keeping slots semi-rare like they are now, I could see it that way. Instead we get an increase of types of augments combined with the increase in slots on new gear and even old low level gear.

    The only thing we really lose on this system is some stacking and the non-scaling aspects of the guild augments. While they were fairly minor bonuses at cap, an extra 20hp and 80-160sp at level 1 wasn't right either.

    edit: This is a system to introduce more grind to keep you playing longer.
    Last edited by Glenalth; 01-21-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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  8. #88
    Hatchery Founder Glenalth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4tonmantis View Post
    I still have not heard if you need to be in a guild to have Augments.
    The augment system does not care about guild membership in any way. It's basically the epic augment system with a few needed improvements and a scaling level requirement based on the crystal.
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  9. #89
    Community Member kingfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenalth View Post
    The only thing we really lose on this system is some stacking and the non-scaling aspects of the guild augments. While they were fairly minor bonuses at cap, an extra 20hp and 80-160sp at level 1 wasn't right either.
    not that these are going anywhere tho, most people have guild slotted gear from previous tr's. this just widens the gap between new players who dont have and older ones who do.

  10. #90
    Hatchery Founder Glenalth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
    not that these are going anywhere tho, most people have guild slotted gear from previous tr's. this just widens the gap between new players who dont have and older ones who do.
    That is true.
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  11. #91
    Community Member Retrodark's Avatar
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    Default Augment costs

    Is there a list somewhere showing the new costs of the augments?

  12. #92
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
    not that these are going anywhere tho, most people have guild slotted gear from previous tr's. this just widens the gap between new players who dont have and older ones who do.
    Its still relatively meaningless unless you intend to park your toon at low levels.

    The Guild slots while decent and stacking give a edge at lower levels, but going forward the Augment Slots get better at higher levels and I would expect over time that more augments will become available.

    Over time the Guild slots will fall into the background, the remaining unbound ones will be sold at super high prices to those looking for that tweak factor. These will then be crafted and bound and used for a time, even those will eventually be stored to take up precious bank space collecting dust or be deleted.

    Look at old Vetern Players that have Min level 8 Greensteels.. I would have loved to have gotten my hands on some of those. Did it break the game.. no... am I still jelous.. yes... Does it make any significant difference at higher levels..no.. we move on looking for new candy..
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  13. #93
    Community Member bloodnose13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenalth View Post
    The dev response to this idea before was that the augment and Cannith crafting systems don't play well together.

    An alternative path for similar results would be to add augments to the Cannith crafting recipes that mirror the abilities of some of the craftable shards. It would need to be kept to some of the lesser recipes as adding a greater bane or even holy for damage + alignment could throw power levels out of whack pretty easily. Lesser banes, elemental, elemental bursts, and a few of the weapon utility effects like crippling would make for some nice options.

    It could also be a huge boon to Cannith crafting to include some of the basic augments in the crafting altars. Augment versions of the non-epic stats, spell power, proof against poison, resistance, skills (when available), and other effects could help fill out the crafting system and make it smoother for leveling at the high ends.

    yes since auguments could not be made craftable and still be used as augument then maybe effect shards from cannith crafting could be made ....convertable into auguments, with (example effect shard+right kind of gem+khyber or siberys shards= low ml augument with same effect). as i noticed there is like 3-4 auguemtns with less than ml 12, and all of them are just utility, whats the point of haveing low level items with auguemt slots if there will be nothing to slot them with without raising item ml to 12+.

    btw there is even easier way to do it even, well easier from my point of view at least, probably not as easy from codeing pov, cannith effect shards could be considered a homemade variants of auguemnts themselves.
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  14. #94
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    I don't get why augments can't be cannith crafted.

    I see absolutely no difference between favor gated NPC taking envelopes and scales for armor, and a crafting level gated machine taking essences and dragonshard for augment crystal.
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  15. #95
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    Bring back Toughness and move False Life (and some others) back to Yellow !

    kkthxbai

  16. #96
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    Sometimes a little common sense outweighs everything else.

    I simply can't see any reason to not have toughness in blue and greater false life in yellow slots in the new augment system. It just doesn't make sense to create a biphasic situation where you have new/old items that aren't consistent with each other.

    Regardless of what properties are offered in what slots at what level and how the system functions there is simply no compelling argument for changing the availability of GFL and toughness in their current slots.

    KISS.
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  17. #97
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Are these prices the final ones?

    Lahar is selling Feather Falling, a level 4 augment, for 20 tokens.
    Heavy Fortification, a level 8 augment, is 20 tokens as well.

    So to buy these augments, for slotted gear that will drop all over the level range of chests. You need to have an epic character to farm tokens.

    Guild augments were part of the free-to-play environment. Epic tokens, with the exclusion of Web of Chaos, are available in strictly p2p content.

    20 tokens is reasonable for a vetted character to finalize their gearing. It is exorbitant to upgrade a piece of gear with you (Slotting the ML 4, 8, 12, then 16 strength) as you progress through a TR life...

    Kinda reminds me of Cannith Challenges... The upgrade scheme is backwards. You can't get it until after you need it/can use it. Work towards the future, not the past!



    A prime example, Waterworks now rewards a belt that is simply 2 slots. How is a first-life, new player supposed to do anything with that? Hope they loot two augments? Pay Auction House prices for other's unbound chest drops?
    Last edited by Systern; 01-23-2013 at 06:08 PM.

  18. #98
    Hatchery Founder Glenalth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    How is a first-life, new player supposed to do anything with that? Hope they loot two augments?
    Yes.

    From the bit I've been playing on Lammmanamannia, the augments drop commonly enough and are chest level appropriate. By the time they loot that 2 slot belt, they should already have some augment crystals clogging their inventory.
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  19. #99
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    Default Guild Augment Idea

    This has probably been suggested already, but I couldn't find it.

    Keep the new augment system as planned; but, allow the slots to accept the current Guild Augments. That way we players can have even more choice as to what kind of effects to apply to our augmentable gear. You wouldn't even need to call them Guild Augments, its just that you can only buy them from the Guild Vendors.

    As far as their limited time and such, I don't really care which way it goes.

    I agree with other's posts that those of us who have been playing a while and have gear with Guild Augment Slots will have an advantage (albeit small) over newer players that will be unable to acquire gear with this feature.

  20. #100
    The Hatchery Habreno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex1972 View Post
    I agree with other's posts that those of us who have been playing a while and have gear with Guild Augment Slots will have an advantage (albeit small) over newer players that will be unable to acquire gear with this feature.
    20 HP that stacks with *everything else* is NOT by any means "small" advantage.
    80 SP is also a very big deal. So much that my current Cleric who's at level 21 I plan on working out how to fit gear around using two LGAS items. Simply to get 20 HP and 80 SP I can't get anywhere else in game and won't be able to get anywhere else in game, or won't even be able to have somewhere else to PUT anywhere else in game.


    Guild slots going away is huge. This is power creep at it's finest.

    Imagine if, say, today, they said that they were introducing +6 tomes. In a year, they remove them from the game. You can't pull one. You can buy one, but since nobody can pull one, nobody's selling theirs. If you get lucky enough to find one, it's extremely overpriced and/or for trade for another +6 tome only. Power creep, folks. Power creep.
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