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  1. #21
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    Thank you for finally clearing that up. Is there a possibility that the Voice of the Master might become a ML:5 colorless augment? It would really help with some of the issues with this item. (ex. UMD lag while trying to switch it before you finish a quest with a “kill this guy” objective.)
    I would love to be able to throw that into say, a litany, iun stone, or conflux, depending on toon.

  2. #22
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
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    Well I've posted this in other threads, but if this is the thread of record:

    Yellow slots should get HP back (either instead of or in addition to blue), and should get additional miscellaneous attributes, such as: Blurry, incorporeal, melee alacrity, parrying, skill bonuses, and maybe healing amp.

    Blue: the PRR bonuses from blue are too high. The best sheltering bonus on named loot right now is +12, therefore I would recommend maxing out blue slot PRR at +9 or +10. Also add exceptional fort 10% to lvl 20 or 24. Bring back toughness.

    Red: add tactical bonuses (stun/trip/sunder/tendon slice) topping out at +8. Also consider adding universal potency and implement bonuses to spellpower.

    Colorless: perfect!

    [edit] I hadn't read Feather's posts when I wrote that, but now that I have I still think toughness in blue is fine. Maybe at lvl 20 cap toughness was a "tier 1" must-slot attribute, but I really don't think that's the case any more. There are lots of ways to pick up HP now, and 20 stacking HP isn't the big deal it was. I believe my epic toons do all have toughness right now, but that's certainly hasn't always been true since u14 came out. I've run without toughness in endgame content without any sense of missing out an an essential attribute. So I've got 810 rather than 830 HP... It just doesn't matter all that much compared to serious defenses like saves/incorporeal/blurry/PRR.
    Last edited by Dolphious; 01-17-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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  3. #23

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    Also, Feather, could you answer this: If you slot a Red augment crystal of ______ spellpower onto a weapon that does not already have a spellpower booster, will it get an implement bonus? (ex. Slotting the Force SP crystal on a fully upgraded Needle.) And if not, why not? Getting an implement bonus on an Artificer is a terrible pain in the rear.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
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    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  4. #24
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Thank you Feather for clearing up Toughness. Now when is update 18?

    Also can you comment on the possibility of moving HP back to Yellow? Most of the initial feedback supports this move.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  5. #25
    Hero LordPiglet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    I'd like to ask you to reconsider this. Your false life style augment isn't all that "common" due to its new status as a BLUE augment rather than YELLOW.

    I'd be ok with the toughness augment becoming a named one, but your hurting us twice as bad by doing that AND turning the flase life style one into a blue augment.

    Remember, we are also losing guild hitpoint slots - so some sort of compensatory mechanism would be nice don't you think?

    Thanks for finally addressing this.
    This. Honestly, it's a pretty poor decision to ask players to wait for u18, and an unknown amount of time for something like toughness, especially when you're moving false life to the less common blue slot.
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  6. #26
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    Just managed to finally check, and I can confirm adding a spellpower augment to a weapon adds the appropriate implement bonus!

    Added a low-level corrosion (66, purchased in Gianthold) to a cleansed Epic Timeblade and it gained Implement +18 (as expected for a +6 weapon).

    Kind of makes me sad Celestia got a green slot not an orange or purple one, as +24 implement bonus and 114 radiance would have definitely boosted my FvS.

  7. #27
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiseFreelancer View Post
    Just managed to finally check, and I can confirm adding a spellpower augment to a weapon adds the appropriate implement bonus!

    Added a low-level corrosion (66, purchased in Gianthold) to a cleansed Epic Timeblade and it gained Implement +18 (as expected for a +6 weapon).

    Kind of makes me sad Celestia got a green slot not an orange or purple one, as +24 implement bonus and 114 radiance would have definitely boosted my FvS.
    Wow, very pleasantly surprised by that one! Slotting spellpower in a weapon's red slot on melee/caster types is going to be really nice. Can't wait to slot my epic antique greataxe with devotion

    Also, WTB +6 good prefix of +10 stunning handwraps with red slot
    Last edited by Dolphious; 01-17-2013 at 03:13 PM.
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  8. #28
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Yellow Slots do seem to be lacking.

    I would like to see...

    %Dodge augments
    Elemental Absorption augments 10/20/30
    healing Amp augments
    Exceptional fortification 10%/25%
    Exceptionals like we have on Greensteel be augments that we can slot.
    Guards like Radiance, Fireshield cold/hot, etc...
    Draconic runes convert them to augments or copy all the runes into augments.
    All Cannith Crafted unbound shards be slottable in some way.


    At Epic24 levels I want to see Epic worthy Augments.
    Things that would make us say... why are u still wearing Torc/Litany/Greensteel thats heroic 12-20gear, slot that stuff and get Epic...
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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  9. #29

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    Kind of makes me sad Celestia got a green slot not an orange or purple one, as +24 implement bonus and 114 radiance would have definitely boosted my FvS.
    I imagine the concern was putting a DR breaking red augment into Celestia and permanently turning off the "Light" damage.

    But yes, it would be nice to be able to put spellpower into it.
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  10. #30
    Hatchery Founder Glenalth's Avatar
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    Yellow does look a bit weak, but that is at least partially because of the rarity of blue slots on current gear. If there are more blue slots available, it will probably be fine.

    If blue slots are going to remain rare, you can bump Protection and Resistance back over to Yellow (and possibly Nat Armor too.) Those at least fit into the strange protection, utility, and mental effects mix that is going on there. Even though it leaves Blue with few crystals, they are all still very strong.

    -=-=-=-=-=

    The False Life and Elemental Resists on the Yellow side could probably be adjusted a bit as you can usually hit the 30pt random versions around 10-12. Increasing the top end slightly to 40pts puts it in line with random loot capabilities.

    Suggested False Life / Elemental Resists
    +5 HP
    +10 HP (AML 4)
    +20 HP (AML 8)
    +25 HP (AML 12)
    +30 HP (AML 16)
    +35 HP (AML 20)
    +40 HP (AML 24)
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  11. #31
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Yellow Slots do seem to be lacking.

    I would like to see...

    %Dodge augments
    Elemental Absorption augments 10/20/30
    healing Amp augments
    Exceptional fortification 10%/25%
    Exceptionals like we have on Greensteel be augments that we can slot.
    Guards like Radiance, Fireshield cold/hot, etc...
    Draconic runes convert them to augments or copy all the runes into augments.
    All Cannith Crafted unbound shards be slottable in some way.
    I concur.

    I also agree that HP should be added back to the Yellow Augment slot. Is it a bad thing for an Augment enchantment be usable for two colors?
    Last edited by Alavatar; 01-17-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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  12. #32
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenalth View Post
    The False Life and Elemental Resists on the Yellow side could probably be adjusted a bit as you can usually hit the 30pt random versions around 10-12. Increasing the top end slightly to 40pts puts it in line with random loot capabilities.

    Suggested False Life / Elemental Resists
    +5 HP
    +10 HP (AML 4)
    +20 HP (AML 8)
    +25 HP (AML 12)
    +30 HP (AML 16)
    +35 HP (AML 20)
    +40 HP (AML 24)
    I also concur with this.
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  13. #33
    Community Member Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    If you don't want whatever is in that slot, then just use a new augment to overwrite it, just like slotting an empty slot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Why? It's a nice bonus, and there's no additional cost to replace it with a different augment.
    Ah, that's the piece of information I was missing. TY for pointing that out.

  14. #34
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This is intentional.
    Out of curiousity, why would you want all augment slots to be empty when found?

    A pre-filled slot is strictly better. It starts out doing something.
    If you don't want whatever is in that slot, then just use a new augment to overwrite it, just like slotting an empty slot.
    If only my Gloves of the Claw (and other Fens epics) had that STR 6 in a pre-filled colorless slot I could clear ...
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  15. #35
    Community Member buddabopp's Avatar
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    I have a question if you slot a min lvl 24 augment into a weapon that is lower than lvl 20 does it gain the extra damage die step?

  16. #36
    Community Member bbqzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This is intentional.
    Out of curiousity, why would you want all augment slots to be empty when found?

    A pre-filled slot is strictly better. It starts out doing something.
    If you don't want whatever is in that slot, then just use a new augment to overwrite it, just like slotting an empty slot.
    Two comments to this:

    1) It isn't strictly better in the sense that many of the items seem to be designed around this. For example, the Epic Giantcraft Sibirys Compass... the Non-Epic version has Resistance 2 (4 to will), while the Epic version has Resistance Zero, and then a +7 Aug slotted. Normally, the Base Epic Item would have some up-scale version of resistance... which this one does. But if you take advantage of the augment slot, it loses that. Having the "usual base stat" of Resistance +5-7, and then an additional blank augment slot on top of that, could easily be argued as comparable to the current version... "strictly better" is somewhat of an opinion here (true vs just a blank slot with no additional mod, but not necessarily true vs past itemization patterns).

    2) Please don't take the above as a complaint, in fact I like this new approach. It does two things: One, it lets you be slightly more ambitions with the "base item". Again using the above example, it lets you put the full +7 on there without worrying as much about what it will stack with if the item had an additional two empty slots. However, it also lets people who don't need a certain bonus (because of build, it shows up elsewhere on other items, etc) to customize their loot. And this customization doesn't flatly increase the items total value, rather its a trade off. Generally, that is a much better position to itemize from, and puts more choice in the hands of the players to find gear that will fit their character well.

    So in the end, I think its a positive method to approach itemization with. However, I feel you should be clear about what you're doing here. If, again using the Compass, the main difference from EN to EH to EE are the aug scaling up, that wouldn't be too palatable in my eyes. I'd rather not see the EN to EE version simply be replicable by token farming, and I'd also like to see a little more variety in epic adaptations. I suspect the compass will also have a scaling Search value, so it won't solely be the aug difference, but it would have also been really cool to see something based on its inception and flavor text which persists even if the aug is removed... such as perhaps Epic Will Save +3, another adaptation of the base item we don't see often, or a Craftable +3 to +5 slot, in reference to its flavor text (meaning the item potential would go beyond what is "currently possible" in the crafting system, but players could use it and the item ML would stay at 24-25).

    Both of these would make the item a little more "epic"... right now its kind of just a two slot trinket (TS is everywhere, and search 20 already exists multiple places to swap in when needed... wheres the unique/special appeal for this epic item? Why should I farm this instead of something else? What, if anything, does this item bring to the table? What makes this not a clone of already existing items? Etc... And maybe "it has two slots" is the answer, just haven't seen enough of the new items to make that comparison yet, but hopefully my questions highlight my line of thought about it).

    Overall better itemization this time around, and really do I like this new direction. But keep in mind the opportunity costs of using the new options, which can greatly detract from the items overall appeal as being "balanced" around a mutation which the item can lose. When the only generally appealing mods are augs, and when they're swapped around the items can't stand too well on their own, it might be time for a touch up. Thanks.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This is intentional.
    Out of curiousity, why would you want all augment slots to be empty when found?

    A pre-filled slot is strictly better. It starts out doing something.
    If you don't want whatever is in that slot, then just use a new augment to overwrite it, just like slotting an empty slot.
    Dude, I love you so much. It may not be that ingenious, but you do have to actually think of it. It's perfect
    I had been pondering what it would be like if you could change an item instead of upgrading it, and this augment system lends itself perfectly for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    They will still be functional after Update 17, until such time as you use the Cleansing Ritual on your item to change it over to the new slots.
    So if you'd like to stock up on Toughness augments now, you still can.

    We felt that Toughness, due to it's special stacking nature (It's hardly optional- most people feel it necessary to slot it in their gear somehow), should be a named augment in the new system, especially as False Life-style Enhancement bonus to Hit Points is available as a "common" Augment.

    Toughness is coming back in Update 18 as a named augment, along with a sizable batch of other unbound named augments.
    ... but I don't understand this at all. How can the same company that comes up with such great ideas and at times brilliant details, also fail in such basic game design paradigms like "don't take away something from a player in order to give that very same thing as a reward later". You did that with several abbot 'upgrades', you did it with favored soul wings and other destiny stuff, etc. It's not fun. It hasn't been fun in 90s RPGs, not in this situation, not ever. Nerfing is fine, but rewarding people with something they felt they were entitled to to begin with is just horrible. Please reevaluate this policy in general.

    Imagine this: You're a child, and you play on the nintendo a lot. Then, at some point, you parents decide they find that you spent too much time playing video games and not enough time playing with other kids, so they take the nintendo away... Then the next christmas, you get your own nintendo as a present :-/

  18. #38
    Community Member bbqzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    They will still be functional after Update 17, until such time as you use the Cleansing Ritual on your item to change it over to the new slots.
    So if you'd like to stock up on Toughness augments now, you still can.

    We felt that Toughness, due to it's special stacking nature (It's hardly optional- most people feel it necessary to slot it in their gear somehow), should be a named augment in the new system, especially as False Life-style Enhancement bonus to Hit Points is available as a "common" Augment.

    Toughness is coming back in Update 18 as a named augment, along with a sizable batch of other unbound named augments.
    I'm generally fine with this approach: Provided the new Toughness aug isn't some crazy horrible grind, since you freely admit every character feels like they have to get one. I don't want to have to go farm a dozen super rare drops just to keep up with the jones's, when previously I could just hit a vendor. If its common enough (U16 epic normal items are a great comparison, run the chain a few times, get your toughness aug off the chain reward, pretty fair IHMO) this would work fine.

    But I would like to comment... can we get HP augs back in yellow slots? You need to consider that all the old epic loot was basically balanced around yellow offering false life, and now it doesn't. Thats a rather large indirect nerf to all old items, and a handicap to anyone unable to take advantage of that before U17.

    I realize with the (current) removal of toughness, and other additions to yellow, some people may prefer false life in Blue (as it currently is) instead. My solution is to just have two of them, one for blue, one for yellow.

    If you can admit toughness is felt as required, certainly false life must approach being mandatory. I do not feel having relatively easy access to a 35 hp version is even close to unbalancing... especially when the dropped mutations go up to 40-50 now. Letting us aug a second tier total with relative ease would be a great show of good will in allowing current builds to more seemlessly fit with a new environement, without doing hundreds of hours of gear re-grind.

    Hopefully doing a cut and paste on the 35 hp aug, with a name change (such as like Sapphire Gem of False Life for blue slot, and Tourmaline Gem of False Life for yellow slot) would be easy and constitute much props from the players. Here's hopin', thanks.

  19. #39
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Just one request.....

    And this is the most important one...

    Make the augment crystals go into bags.
    Make them go into BAGS!
    INTO BAGS.

    Please.
    Thank You.
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  20. #40
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    What happens to a tier 3 epic crystal cove or cannith challenge item that is "updated" for slot conversion? Will the slots convert cleanly, or will it revert to tier 1?
    Someone got it wrong. Everyone expected the Spanish Inquisition because they were required to give 30 days notice, by law.
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